Puppy 3 Series Suggestions

[WhoDo]

I'm taking my own advice and acting instead of talking. I may not be the leader of any of these projects, but I am very keen to see they remain on track and produce something we can all be proud of.

My first suggestion was to port Hotpup to the 3 series. I see that Jack (tronkel) has posted an Alpha with this feature and I'll be testing it as soon as possible.

Over to you guys. Mods - please make this thread sticky.

[disciple]

Is the libdm issue and the issues with Samba printing fixed?

[ttuuxxx]

This is what I got so far

-The Welcome page is still puppyos netsurf, still has the original yellow/orange images and text to match.

-The desktop background chooser doesn't show thumbnails that's a first for me. Its always nice to see a thumbnail of a background image

We should remove ycalc and replace with the latest Galculator

Pfind is version 3.0 the latest is 3.4

Grafburn should be removed, Barry once said, not long ago that it has problems and anyways Pburn replaces it 100%

Pburn 0.9.3 the latest is 1.0

Pmount opens multiple instances, which was fixed sometime ago, but is back again, I've always liked it better this way, But the norm is just 1 instance these days.

Firefox should be the default browser not netsurf, netsurf should be the default html viewer only.

Gxine player doesn't work
missing /usr/lib/libxine.so.1.16.0 system linked to libxine.so.1

usr/lib/firefox/libmozjs.so needs to be systemlinked to /usr/lib/
/usr/lib/firefox/libplds4.so needs to be system linked to /usr/lib/
/usr/lib/firefox/libplc4.so needs to be system linked to /usr/lib/
/usr/lib/firefox/libnspr4.so needs to system linked to /usr.lib/
then after all that we get this error
gtkvideo: couldn't open video driver
gxine has suffered a fatal internal error.
To get a backtrace, run gxine in a debugger such as gdb.
Then, when the error occurs:
(gdb) thread apply all bt
gxine: error: Fatal error: Segmentation fault
Segmentation fault
#
Why are we using gxine when its broken in the 3 series? tons of bad reports on it.
should change to Mplayer or VLC which I think they are both smaller once you remove the xine and dependencies.
plus Mplayer is handy if you want to use it for video dubbing with mencoder video dubbing could be a sfs package..

Plus I think maybe have Prozilla as a multi-thread download application, great for dialup users and adsl2+
I usually get 600% speed increasements with it. Plus it has pause and resume.
I really would like a new GUI for it if anyone is up to it?
not really the most user friendly gui, but still works

Also needs Gslapt, and maybe PSI if its working right.
Should the latest pdrive be included?
and is there any work being done on the puppy control panel?
Also would like to see Abiword back in.

Hope this helps
ttuuxxx

[ttuuxxx]

usually when i make a Firefox pet package I system link all the /usr/lib/firefox/LIB'S to /usr/lib/ which fixes a lot of headaches.

on ya the white rox desktop icon lettering needs to be change, it doesn't work with the other puppy picture that is included, hard to read the lettering, I found that a problem in the past, Now I use a light tan/brown colour. which works with white or black backgrounds, which are the most common these days maybe a light grey, something easy on the eyes.

ttuuxxx

[ttuuxxx]

I found out your Xine problem you forgot to install xine-lib-1.1.7.pet and once you do it works, finally, but still missing just a couple of dependencies
These dependencies required by xine-lib-1.1.7 package are missing:
File /usr/lib/xine/plugins/1.1.7/xineplug_vo_out_caca.so has these missing library files:
libcaca.so.0 libcucul.so.0
File /usr/lib/xine/plugins/1.1.7/xineplug_ao_out_arts.so has these missing library files:
libartsc.so.0
File /usr/lib/xine/plugins/1.1.7/xineplug_ao_out_esd.so has these missing library files:
libesd.so.0
File /usr/lib/xine/plugins/1.1.7/xineplug_inp_smb.so has these missing library files:
libsmbclient.so.0
File /usr/lib/xine/plugins/1.1.7/xineplug_decode_image.so has these missing library files:
libWand.so.10 libMagick.so.10
File /usr/lib/xine/plugins/1.1.7/xineplug_vo_out_aa.so has these missing library files:
libaa.so.1 libgpm.so.1 libslang.so.2
File /usr/lib/xine/plugins/1.1.7/xineplug_vo_out_sdl.so has these missing library files:
libSDL-1.2.so.0

The PETget package manager does not know what package/s has/have these libraries.
ttuuxxx

PS the pet manager failed on all 3 download sites to download xine-lib-1.1.7.pet but when i went to www.puppylinux.ca and download the package, it downloaded just fine manually, go figure.

[ttuuxxx]

I quickly added Glossy P gtk2 theme for rox, and Changed the icons to a black with clear plastic cover

[wingruntled]

WhoDo
Just as a note. It took me 2+ decades to compile this much disgust with that other OS/company, so Puppy is still way out front.

Now back to the "Community Edition" based on puppy 3!

No abiword? Ouch big time

Pburn does everything and more than grafburn, plus it's a community created app rendering grafburn a redundant app taking up space. Out with the old, in with the new?

Firefox as default is probably a good thing but I'm not so sure that using a Beta version is very wise. This community has no control of the development of it sooo...

I don't know how good it is for some of the other video formats but the xine-ui has never given be a bit of problems playing DVD's. Pretty it is not, but it works.
My 2 cents

[ttuuxxx]

WhoDo
Just as a note. It took me 2+ decades to compile this much disgust with that other OS/company, so Puppy is still way out front.

Now back to the "Community Edition" based on puppy 3!

No abiword? Ouch big time

Pburn does everything and more than grafburn, plus it's a community created app rendering grafburn a redundant app taking up space. Out with the old, in with the new?

Firefox as default is probably a good thing but I'm not so sure that using a Beta version is very wise. This community has no control of the development of it sooo...

I don't know how good it is for some of the other video formats but the xine-ui has never given be a bit of problems playing DVD's. Pretty it is not, but it works.
My 2 cents

I agree with you 100%
all my variants I've made on the 3.0 series I used xine-gui, the only one small flaw it has is when you go full screen to view a movie, you still see the taskbar. But i've been able to manually override those settings in the root folder. Or I just live with it. Not really all that bad.

As Firefox 3.0 beta goes, I tested that earlier and well The CSS rendering messes up real bad on some pages. Text on top of text etc. Yes I like the 2.12 its more refined, really I think the beta release is more of a alpha release than anything.

And as Abiword goes I really think we need it, thats really why I kind of pleaded in the other thread to increase the size, I've been going over the applications in this release and really not much room to save. So I can imagine adding Abiword and about a max of 5 MB more and then time to find and remove the bugs.

ttuuxxx

[wingruntled]

Tuuxxx
I'm not sure where that 100Mb limit came from but anywhere in the ballpark shouldn't be a problem? I wouldn't think anyway.
DSL set a limit and now is stuck in it's own rut.

[ttuuxxx]

Tuuxxx
I'm not sure where that 100Mb limit came from but anywhere in the ballpark shouldn't be a problem? I wouldn't think anyway.
DSL set a limit and now is stuck in it's own rut.

DSL doesn't have slackware, which takes up a lot of extra room, well 12MB or so, plus it uses outdated software, because each newer software release gets bigger, Plus they they use things like siag office, which when i ran it on puppy, I scratched my head and said ummmmmm WTH is this?
Here have a look at what they give, compared to puppy
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall
They are still using firefox 1.0.6, lol what security, no inkscape lite, no abiword, no freakin anything
And for us to stay with the regular"puppy" size and have a starting point of 99MB really how much can you cut out and keep it under 100MB. If say we had the 2.14 puppy release size, It might be possible. But Barry does his best to keep puppy already slim, trim and fully functional. Thats the great thing about puppy, its up-to date, and you have a wide selection of applications.
ttuuxxx

[tronkel]

A lot of folks are concerned about the lack of Abiword.

How about a Lassie module containing both the Abiword and Gnumeric packages? This could also include sane libraries plus Xsane. Call it say, Lassie SOHO.

If I included these items in the ISO, it would take us over the magic 100MB - bad idea IMHO.

The main feature of Puppy is really its speed. Go over 100MB for the iso and its performance deteriorates rapidly. Kompozer is the intended work-around for the lack of Abiword in the Chihuahua core ISO - but not intended as a full replacement for Abiword.

This challenge of keeping to the 100MB limit for Chihuahua is what this is all about. Hard decisions are necessary here. I would even like to see it go under 90MB if a way could be found to accomplish this. We're gonna need every trick in the book here, in order to discipline ourselves to staying within the philosophy and design parameters of Chihuahua. It really is a difficult trade-off of features and performance.

[disciple]

VLC is nice, but huge. If you don't want to use gxine or xine-gui or something, use the mplayer package for Puppy 4 as it is small and uses ffmpeg. It should run fine as it even works in Puppy 1.x
What! No Abiword?
Maybe just leave out the plugins?

[ttuuxxx]

Heres are some ideas I've had/summary

Possible changes
remove gxine+any libs for it and replace with mplayer
remove kompozer and replace with Abiword without plugins
remove grafpup and replace with updated pburn 1.0
remove ycalc and replace with Galculator
if really desperate remove inkscape lite
update pfind
remove firefox beta and install firefox 2.12 (better CSS)
make Firefox default browser
fix thumbnail view in puppy background changer application
Install latest Gslapt 3.19 and update mirrors.
System-Tools control panel (Further Building needed if possible) -->
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 54&t=26600

SFS ideas
Multimedia - Codec pack, other audio, video, stream players
Mutimedia authoring pack - LIVES and a few others
Graphic pack - latest Inkscape,Gimp, Xara, Blender
web Developement pack - FTP, WYSIWYG and Html markup programs,
Games pack - Arcade, Action, Sports
Office pack - Open office, Personal/small business accounting packages.

Pet package ideas.
Mplayer extra plugins and CodeC
Abiword plugins and dictionaries
EZpup theme package

maybe all the sfs packages broken-down into separate pet packages for easy access, saves the users from searching all over the net trying to find these packages, kind of like a 1 shop stop.

These are just a suggestions and I'm open to ideas/views
ttuuxxx

[Lobster]

make Firefox default browser

I would suggest a small internal HTML browser is sufficient to
download and choose an SFS module (and browser of choice)
and help keep Puppy small

Otherwise I feel you are on track

[changturkey]

Update drivers, especially ALSA please.

[WhoDo]

These are just a suggestions and I'm open to ideas/views

Now you've got it, ttuuxxx! All of these ideas are exactly where I too would like to see Puppy 3 series going.

I don't think EZpup needs to be among the sfs options, so include that for a look-and-feel update among the pet packages. By default only 1 or 2 nice themes, 1 or 2 nice wallpapers (small ones), one nice X11 mouse cursor theme and maybe just the one small, nice icon theme - smaller the better. Between those and Barry's desktop icon changer, most users won't even need or want EZpup, which makes Puppy standard even better value IMHO.

Cheers

[ttuuxxx]

make Firefox default browser

I would suggest a small internal HTML browser is sufficient to
download and choose an SFS module (and browser of choice)
and help keep Puppy small

Otherwise I feel you are on track

Hi Lobster I like the idea, But thats one of those rock and a hard place things. It makes sense but what about people who uses a live cd and have no clue how to rewrite back to the cd?
It would be a puppy first for a main release like this. Plus doesn't these releases get world wide reviews? I think the 2.15ce did in a few Linux online Magazines.
What are they going to say about a mini-browser. I understand the selection processes but for new users, is this asking a tad much of them? How do other feel about this issue? Its only saving around 10MB or so compressed.
ttuuxxx

and which small browser would people like to see in it, And don't say "Skipstone" because that needs Seamonkey to be installed! lol

[HairyWill]

Java seems to be missing from the list so far.

ttuxxx's breakdown of squash files module contents seems appropriate though with devx as well this will leave at least 7 different squashes to manage. One option is to point the user at MU's combiner. Combining some of the squash categories would make life easier though would result in users having to download bigger files possibly just to access one application. How about supplying all 7/8... but also offering downloads for combined squashes. ie.
Multimedia + Multimedia editing
Graphics + Web Development
Office + Java

One of the things I found initially confusing for 2.15 was finding the squash files. I think it is Lobster that suggested or uses an application for downloading and installing squash files. This should probably check free space and install type before committing the user to the download. The architecture I had in mind was similar to the way that PSI works.
The downloader is hardcoded to download a sfs.list from ibiblio or the wiki.
This list contains mirror locations AND MD5s for all the squashes.
user chooses squash and mirror
squash is downloaded and installed automatically in a full or frugal install, this should include setting up the boot config manager.
On multi-session if someone could confirm that writing the unpacked squash into a date named directory works we could get it working automatically on multisession as well.

We could just hard code the sfs locations and MD5s into the iso but this seems inflexible and prone to breakage. Having the MD5s online means that the sfs can be updated through the development process.

It might be nice to have a naming convention for the sfs files that includes some versioning information. ie
multimedia-1_310.sfs
multimedia-2_310.sfs

[Lobster]

I would suggest a small internal HTML browser is sufficient to
download and choose an SFS module (and browser of choice)
and help keep Puppy small

Hi Lobster I like the idea, But thats one of those rock and a hard place things. It makes sense but what about people who uses a live cd and have no clue how to rewrite back to the cd?

?
I am one of those people
If I install a browser it becomes part of the save file
when I close down (saving to HD, Keydrive or DVD (to become multisession)
I save to HD incidentally
(though recently they all died and I used multisession and I used USB key drive for a while)

A multisession (saves to DVD or CD) is pretty much automated too

Which browser?
hv3
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/hv3

Dillo
Pwget (In Dingo) will even do the job of downloading a browser SFS

and there are others . . . the below I am not familiar with but
can be added with the package manager
elinks
gpe_mini
gtk-webcore

[ttuuxxx]

I would suggest a small internal HTML browser is sufficient to
download and choose an SFS module (and browser of choice)
and help keep Puppy small

Hi Lobster I like the idea, But thats one of those rock and a hard place things. It makes sense but what about people who uses a live cd and have no clue how to rewrite back to the cd?

?
I am one of those people
If I install a browser it becomes part of the save file
when I close down (saving to HD, Keydrive or DVD (to become multisession)
I save to HD incidentally
(though recently they all died and I used multisession and I used USB key drive for a while)

A multisession (saves to DVD or CD) is pretty much automated too

Which browser?
hv3
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/hv3

Dillo
Pwget (In Dingo) will even do the job of downloading a browser SFS

and there are others . . . the below I am not familiar with but
can be added with the package manager
elinks
gpe_mini
gtk-webcore

when i comes top browsers just a few options I like to see included
-clear history
-bookmarks
-highlight/copy to clipboard
-find on page
-refresh/stop,foward,backward/home
and thats about it, I really don't ask for much with browsers
sometimes view source code but thats for my own learning curve. So it isn't really that important.
If you know any one of those browsers that fit that small list, I would really consider it. that would make the browser useful without a major league browser.
ttuuxxx