Puppy's Website: Discussion

Message

oli · #76 Post by **oli** » Mon 17 Mar 2008, 12:14

I had a search at the web. I suggest to use dokuwiki ( http://wiki.splitbrain.org/wiki:dokuwiki ) for the manual. Eric (Caneri) or Tom (tombh), could you install dokuwiki at the website and send me a link so that I can make some tests with the manual?

raffy · #77 Post by **raffy** » Mon 17 Mar 2008, 16:12

Oli, I've done a test site for Dokuwiki and informed you via PM of the access info. Am afraid that servage's server software could be too old - hope the scripts will work.

#78 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Mon 17 Mar 2008, 16:32

Hey guys if a Forum is needed let me say one thing, PhpBB is terrible for spam, I used to get over 100 xxx post a month, some were just over the top for a linux website, I then Deleted PhpBB and installed SMF forum and have 0 spam for over 1 month now. It is so nice, I will never go back to PhpBB
ttuuxxx

#79 Post by **Pizzasgood** » Mon 17 Mar 2008, 17:04

That may not be because of better forum software. I've gotten the same effect by just moving my forum to another directory. After a month or two the bots seemed to find me again. I don't know if the URL changed in your case, but the methods of posting will certainly have, so right now you might just be in the lull period while you wait for the bots to adjust.

Not saying something else wouldn't help. The less mainstream the better as far as spam goes. But I do think you need to give it three months or so before you can judge how good it really is.

Dingo · #80 Post by **Dingo** » Mon 17 Mar 2008, 18:00

oli wrote:I had a search at the web. I suggest to use dokuwiki ( http://wiki.splitbrain.org/wiki:dokuwiki ) for the manual. Eric (Caneri) or Tom (tombh), could you install dokuwiki at the website and send me a link so that I can make some tests with the manual?

o yeah my site is based on dokuwiki

http://puppylover.netsons.org/dokupuppy/doku.php

and dokuwiki can be expanded with many plugins adding extra features

LOF · #81 Post by **LOF** » Tue 18 Mar 2008, 07:44

LOF wrote:...The problem is that I don't know if a hierarchy system is possible to do with Wikka. The category feature is the closest thing that I know of but this has proved very confusing to orchestrate. I also would suggest not going with a Drupal extension wiki as realistically the wiki needs to have the power of a dedicated content system. Would a change of wiki software be possible? I know that http://moinmo.in/ (used by Ubuntu wiki) is capable of doing subpages (e.g. .../Manual/French)

Bump.

What do people think of changing the wiki software if we start it over from scratch?

HairyWill · #82 Post by **HairyWill** » Tue 18 Mar 2008, 08:12

LOF
Are you talking about a manual wiki, other or everything combined into one wiki.

I am strongly against throwing away the existing content. There is over 800 pages there and this action gives a very bad signal to those that have put the most effort into it. These are also the people most likely to contribute to the new wiki. If we choose to move to a new wiki engine all the existing material should be transferred. Each page should be automatically marked as "Needs review for style and content", then we can edit and reorganise as time allows. Maybe it is possible to automatically add these pages to a category NeedsReview.

WhoDo · #83 Post by **WhoDo** » Tue 18 Mar 2008, 08:41

HairyWill wrote:I am strongly against throwing away the existing content.

@LOF - I'm with Will on this one. There are also a myriad of links, HOWTO's and other stuff that is very important for understanding Puppy.

Either we should go for the upgraded version of Wikkawiki (our current wiki engine), or move the content to Drupal's wiki for better control and security. Either way, the content is indispensable, IMHO.

Lobster · #84 Post by **Lobster** » Tue 18 Mar 2008, 09:13

WhoDo wrote:go for the upgraded version of Wikkawiki (our current wiki engine)

I am already using an updated wakkawiki for tmxxine and the main difference is in better editing facilities.
It seems to be stable but the security updates for spam have not yet been added
http://docs.wikkawiki.org/WikkaReleaseNotes1164

A wakkawiki update is due this month - however I heard that one 4 months ago

raffy · #85 Post by **raffy** » Tue 18 Mar 2008, 15:02

Surprise, surprise - I saw it last night but could not believe it. Now am starting to believe. The Apache server at puppylinux.org has no version* number and it runs mod_php4 (version 4.3.11).

Oli can't get dokuwiki to work since yesterday, and am running out of solutions, so I looked again at phpinfo. AFAIK, servers should now be running PHP5, and dokuwiki coders know this.

I could be wrong, but I have used dokuwiki before in a netfirms site, without problems.

Possible solution: use another server that can run dokuwiki.

-------------------
* phpinfo says "Servage.net Cluster/(Enhanced Apache)" without giving any number.

LOF · #86 Post by **LOF** » Tue 18 Mar 2008, 17:03

WhoDo wrote:
HairyWill wrote:I am strongly against throwing away the existing content.
@LOF - I'm with Will on this one. There are also a myriad of links, HOWTO's and other stuff that is very important for understanding Puppy.

Either we should go for the upgraded version of Wikkawiki (our current wiki engine), or move the content to Drupal's wiki for better control and security. Either way, the content is indispensable, IMHO.

Good point guys. Sorry I completely forgot about the need to change all links around and reformat everything when transferring content. I guess I just thought of copying and pasting. Soz.

Anyway, a quick question. Have people considered using the current wiki for the manual? If there are technical problems in setting up a new one, and we can somehow set access levels for users of a particular catergory on the existing wiki (can this be done?), then surely it would make sense to put manual development onto the existing structure.

Just throwing some ideas out there, feel free to shoot them down...

Lobster · #87 Post by **Lobster** » Tue 18 Mar 2008, 17:43

html can be displayed on a wiki page by putting it between a set of double quotation marks

eg
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/AdditionalPrograms

tombh · #88 Post by **tombh** » Tue 18 Mar 2008, 18:52

Sorry to have not contributed for the past few days, I was discussing some stuff with raffy.

So anyway, Drupal, yes my favourite, the self-proclaimed provider of "community plumbing". It is the complete Content Management System, not really possessing a specific speciality, but excelling in adaptability whilst keeping all its functionality under one roof. With only Joomla to compete with it is widely considered to be the most powerful non-commercial CMS.

It literally has thousands of modules and a huge, friendly and helpful community following. The Internationalisation module (which I have some experience with) and the Localisation module might be interesting to Oli (there are even more translation modules that I have not looked at) -- let me know if you'd be interested in trying them out.

Its core functionality is all about providing means to manage and manipulate large amounts of varied content, pages, wikis, images, blogs and even custom content types. Also part of the core is the ability to finely control privileges on a per user and per role basis.

Drupal is perfectly built for the kind of project that we are talking about here, it's the kind of thing were, scattered throughout its code, there will be numerous gadgets, gizmos and features that cover eventualities that we could have never foreseen. I think it would also be a great investment for the future, because if we ever start thinking about adding new features to Puppy's web life, we can just consider adding new modules rather than a whole new piece of separate software that needs to be separately installed, themed, administrated, maintained and registered with unique usernames.

If anyone would like admin access to the Drupal backend of my proto-site, just PM me.

PS Oli's been sorted out with his test docuwiki installation, so no worries there.

oli · #89 Post by **oli** » Wed 19 Mar 2008, 09:29

Thanks to Raffy, Tom and Eric I can test dokuwiki now. It is very easy to use and - if everything I need works - I would like to use it for the manual.

Perhaps Raffy and Eric can manage to run dokuwiki at the prospective website (www.puppylinux.org ?) too. Then there should be a login so that only the manual's maintainer can edit.

tombh · #90 Post by **tombh** » Wed 19 Mar 2008, 10:28

@Oli: What do you think about using Drupal? I can see that Dokuwiki is certainly capable of maintaining the manual, but from the wider point of view of the whole Puppy website there would be many advantages to just using one CMS.

From what I have read I can see that maintaining the manual will require 3 main areas:
Revision Control: If someone makes a change to a manual page the old version needs to be retained automatically. Drupal has this as standard.
Access Control: Only users that are trusted translators or maintainers should be able to edit manual pages. Again Drupal has this functionality as standard.
Notification Support: Whenever a manual page is updated, in ANY language, the maintainers of the other manual pages need to be notified. Drupal has a notification module. It also provides a comment feature for all content types, access to read/write these can be finely controlled.

There is also a clone module that may come in useful when upgrading the manual to a new version -- we can simply make a copy of the entire manual, then hide it from public view and edit it privately until it is ready, then simply switch the manuals around.

I appreciate that this maybe a compromise for you, learning something which might be quite new to you. However, I mention it because I think it would be worth considering from the broader perspective of the other features that we need to integrate now (ie, the general WIKI and main website) and in the future.

mcewanw · #91 Post by **mcewanw** » Wed 19 Mar 2008, 11:30

I've never worked with drupal, but I do know it is taking over from commercial content management systems all over the place. Even the local polytechnic has decided to move all its content over to a drupal system (except for online learning, for which they are using the Australian created Moodle instead of Blackboard, which they used to use).

If tombh is offering to set up a Drupal site, I think it would be daft not to go with that. Anyway, its a useful skill to learn as far as I'm told; its expanding in use so rapidly that a former colleague tells me that there is lots of work in that area.

Caneri · #92 Post by **Caneri** » Wed 19 Mar 2008, 13:04

Hi William and all,

Yes, Drupal is the way to go for me. I plan on moving to Drupal for all of puppylinux.ca in the not too distant future.

With Tom's help and his knowledge of Drupal this should be a fairly smooth process.

You never know but maybe Tom can earn some real money in the future from the test runs that will be done here.

Best,
Eric

oli · #93 Post by **oli** » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 11:06

I had a look at Drupal, especially at "How to make a manual". If I understood right you have to use html-code to format the content. This is a disadvantage in comparison to dokuwiki because content and layout is not seperated. Dokuwiki seems to be much easier to use.

@ Tombh, Caneri, Raffy: I've made some test pages in dokuwiki (you know the URL), simulating two languages and (at one page of the manual) two versions. Pictures are still missing.

tombh · #94 Post by **tombh** » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 12:23

@Oli
I was wanting to know that you understand that we're considering Drupal for the whole website not just the manuals. Dokuwiki is good for the manuals but not so good for the other aspects of the website (ie, main website and general WIKI).

In order to give these 3 aspects a consistent design it will be easier for me if they all use the same CMS. It will also be easier for users and maintainers because they will only have one username and password.

I understand that Drupal will be harder to use at first, but is it so much harder that we seriously need to consider using separate CMSs?

PS. You don't have to use HTML to format the content in Drupal, it is just an option. It has the same WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) editor as Dokuwiki -- see the TINYMCE editor in action here.

Aitch · #95 Post by **Aitch** » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 14:07

Hi tombh

Following on from nathan's post I just posted elsewhere about spam assassin, though it's not my field, however

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 439#183439

and the altering of pizzasgood's post here

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 9388da2335

are examples of problems of relying on badly set up filters

perhaps you should invite suggestions for dealing with via*** type spam advertising getting through, as alienjeff is going to explode if it transfers to the new site after all your efforts

Thanks

Aitch

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Puppy's Website: Discussion

Done a test site

mod_php4

drupal sounds good to me