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The time now is Sat 18 May 2013, 12:50 All times are UTC - 4 |
 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements |
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Puppy Chihuahua Alpha4 ISO available
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga |
 
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HairyWill
 Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 2949 Location: Southampton, UK |
Gave it a whirl seems nice. I agree that it would be nice to stop innovating and just bug fix. I am interested in the rationale for planmaker it doesn't look like it can handle ods. Considering space is an issue I'm surprised at the inclusion of icewm. The icewm config has the icon size set too big. The icons used for the menu are 16x16 displaying them bigger than that just looks bad. Same applies to the taskbar. If you want a tray based volume slider I've made the absvolume one work better and look much nicer than it did before. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=27356 The icons are external and might need tweaking so that the volume level shows up on a dark background. At the moment there is still some blank space between the tray and the slider, this is needed for jwm but I could recompile with it removed if icewm is in for the long hall. It swallows automatically, linking it from /root/Startup is a good way to start it. smbclient is missing. Without this neither linneighborhood or pnethood will work properly. didiwiki doesn't start properly. I think this is a permissions thing. When running from the prompt as spot it was not allowed to create /root/spot/.didwiki The time still isn't displayed correctly. I had to set my timezone and reset the time. Is it just because I live on the greenwich meridian that I am used to this being correct automatically. I've just read the planmaker license
don't feel pressured, quality is better than speed _________________ Will contribute: community website, screenshots, puplets, wiki, rss |
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ttuuxxx
 Joined: 05 May 2007 Posts: 10720 Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia |
@HairyWill The default jwm or Icewm menu icons are 24x24 the sub menu icons are 16x16 thats why the 24x24 icons are located in /usr/local/lib/X11/pixmaps and the 16x16 are locared in /usr/local/lib/X11/mini-icons or atleast should be 
Next the iceWm package they are using is one that built up, Its a amazing lite pet package http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=27358 Its only 765.71 KB compressed in a pet package and including 2 themes around 188kb uncompressed each:) Plus JWM is removed saving around 300kb including libraries. So Using Icewm is an excellent alternative. I've made it as lite as possible. And really doesn't blow the budget with file size. Originally it was almost half the size but then they wanted blinky and freememapplet which almost doubled the size once installed but if the original blinky and freememapplet was removed and replaced with IceWM packaged ones, I bet the difference would only be 100-200kb including the removal of jwm settings application. As for your icon viewing, They all look perfect on my pc , I'm viewing them on a 19" LCD with a setting of 1024x768 with 24bits color. are you using 24bits ttuuxxx _________________ http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games
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HairyWill
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 2949 Location: Southampton, UK |
@ttuuxxx Sorry I hadn't applied the patch you provided, that fixes the icon problems. On the subject of ice vs. jwm whilst wanting to avoid a holy war and respect to ttuuxxx for a small and nice theme. On size it is no contest. JWM is significantly smaller it is 97K compressed plus maybe another 20K for the config files. Removing the jwm configurator would save some space (I haven't measured how much), what configuration tools are included for icewm that could be considered for removal  ?
On functionality icewm wins in my book, resize windows from the top, handle flash fullscreen windows and quick launch. @Tronkel I notice you did decide to remove geany, no-one seems to have complained yet. _________________ Will contribute: community website, screenshots, puplets, wiki, rss |
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ttuuxxx
Joined: 05 May 2007 Posts: 10720 Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia |
Ok Hairy I haven't much time to explain everything but here we go.. My package replaces all these in JWM . Then gives 2 actual really nice themes. You said 97 compressed ummm no try this 472kb. I'm not perfect but maybe I might of missed 1 or 2 others
"jwm2-2.0.1" "jwm2-2.0.1: Joes window manager" on "PUP300 +fribidi 200K" "jwmconfig-23sept07" "jwmconfig-23sept07: Config manager for jwm2" on "PUP300 +gtk+2,jwm2 224K" \ "blinky-0.8" "blinky-0.8: taskbar network monitor" on "GTK1APPS +gtk+12 35K" "freememapplet-1.2.2" "freememapplet-1.2.2: displays free mem in taskbar" on "GTK1APPS +gtk+12 13K" \ ttuuxxx _________________ http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games
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HairyWill
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 2949 Location: Southampton, UK |
ttuuxxx I don't quite understand the accounting. I have just downloaded the pets from ibiblio
Fribidi support can be disabled in jwm if a saving of 23K is important. Does icewm include support for right to left text at all? I don't think is reasonable to include the cost of the jwm configurator when comparing with an icewm install that has no user configuration tools better than a text editor. I notice that the icewm binary in 3.02alpha4 is over 500K, in mini-muppy8 it is less than 300K. As I said before icewm has some functional advantages over jwm and could be the preferred choice because of them. _________________ Will contribute: community website, screenshots, puplets, wiki, rss |
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ttuuxxx
Joined: 05 May 2007 Posts: 10720 Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia |
My version is based on the latest version which has newer features and hence has a larger binary. But lets just not forget we are talking KB not 10's of MB. Icewm is far better accepted in the Linux world over JWM. And This package in general is 1/10th the size of the one used in the previous CE edition. ttuuxxx _________________ http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games
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HairyWill
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 2949 Location: Southampton, UK |
I think you may need some sort of check on your powerdown applet for the lock option. I can see it generating support calls when people don't know the default password. _________________ Will contribute: community website, screenshots, puplets, wiki, rss |
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floborg
 Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 194 Location: Fort Worth, TX |
Just want to chime in on the WM issue. With EZPup and ICE WM, my machine froze WAY more often than it ever has with JWM. How about both? |
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ttuuxxx
Joined: 05 May 2007 Posts: 10720 Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia |
Maybe floborg because ezpup did update things like rox and a few other things, But my version of Icewm doesn't, Its small and fast and I've never had my system freeze up because of it Have you tried it yet floborg ?
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=27358 ttuuxxx _________________ http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games
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tronkel
 Joined: 30 Sep 2005 Posts: 1047 Location: Vienna Austria |
floborg wrote:
This might be a good idea in theory, but not practical at the moment. In the specific case of Chihuahua the size/performance trade-off of applications is an issue. Every candidate upgrade application would have to be evaluated in this respect in order to justify its inclusion in Chihuahua. Checks would also need doing, to validate that the upgrade did not bork something else in the system. Doing this for major applications as well system stuff, would amount to a major rebuild of 302 - something that is simply not feasible for reasons of time constraints and something I don't want to get in to. Having said all that, if you spot something that looks as though it might make a good upgrade, why not "adopt" it and do some experiments with it a regards compatibility with Chihuahua. If thew tests look promising on your system, upload the package as either a Pet or a directory to say Eric's Puppylinux.ca. I would then look at it, and if it seems like a goer, I could swap out the older version for your upgrade. This brings me to a more general point about upgrades in general. I wonder how many Ubuntu users (Ubuntu being the distro that has supposedly the best system upgrade tool in the business - using apt-get) actually keep the auto-upgrade facility on the tool bar switched on? If you want to bork your Ubuntu system, the fastest way to do that, is to do an auto-upgrade, without first checking-out the possible undesirable side-effects on your system on an app by app basis. See what I mean? Going back to Chihuahua, without a lot of additional help with testing etc from forum members prepared to carry out and also document and research their findings, it is not feasible to "just do a quick release on 302" IMHO. The word "quick" is the real problem here. _________________ Life is too short to spend it in front of a computer |
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Lobster
Official Crustacean  Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 15109 Location: Paradox Realm |
Tronkel, one way is the 14k download of LIT (Light Installer Tmxxine) which does little more than link to a wiki page with the latest download for the most popular sfs and pets . . . Very simple Shell code This one is for Pupeee http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=185844#185844 _________________ Puppy WIKI |
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ttuuxxx
Joined: 05 May 2007 Posts: 10720 Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia |
As Tronkel mentioned about finding packages for upgrades and uploading them to erics server, That could be hard if you don't have an account with him:) what you could do is make an account at my forum and post the files there. I have a 40MB upload max size in the forum so that should fit just about everything other than really large sfs files http://ttuuxxx.com/chitchat/index.php?PHPSESSID=e44a08521d72ac7969dd2db7f37a7f37&board=5.0 ttuuxxx _________________ http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games
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tronkel
Joined: 30 Sep 2005 Posts: 1047 Location: Vienna Austria |
ICPUG wrote:
The short answer to that, is that we are not doing too well on that side at the moment. Before I started on the Chihuahua project, I did lay out a plan, one of whose most important features was the bug-fixing aspect. What has happened though, is I have included Barry's recommended fixes as are applicable to 3.02 Chihuahua as they became available. This is nowhere near enough though. Often the bugs referred to in the forum relate to stuff programmed and subsquently updated by various forum members, who have some sort of specialist expertise in whatever area. It is difficult sometimes to keep track of who has done what and when. Help would really need to be forthcoming from these people, in order to address the issues that inevitably crop-up. I am certainly no expert in many of the issues that arise from time to time - very often in relation to important matters. What would help things along here, would be if forum members were more prepared to get their hands dirty and actually help with these fixes. I am well aware that this is no easy task and would involve much time-consuming, self-teaching and research into the various various topics and issues. If you want your favourite Puppy OS tool to get really sorted out, YOU have to lend a hand as well - and not just sit and complain that things are not as good as they should be. ttuuxxx wrote:
That is so true and applies to us all. Please pay attention to that. _________________ Life is too short to spend it in front of a computer |
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tronkel
Joined: 30 Sep 2005 Posts: 1047 Location: Vienna Austria |
Lobster wrote:
Yes that looks like a neat example using gtkDialog. Among other stuff, that type of thing could be included in a Newbie.sfs Probably quite a few other apps could benefit from something along these lines. Take a more difficult example though. When I made the GUI for Icewinconfig, I decided to use C++ to implement it. This was because Icewm's configuration file was so set up, that it would have been awkward to implement an algorithm that could handle parsing that file. Probably possible in Bash though, but more difficult for me since my Bash skills are not as good as my C++ ones. So every case is different as far as building GUIs is concerned. Some are easy to implement, while some can be more complex. Depends on how the original author designed the package as well. Programmers have varying skill sets and expertise too. These low-level programming languages such as C++ ought to be made more use of within Puppy IMHO. C++ makes compact and fast binaries and gives the programmer access to data structures from the STL library that makes life so much easier for programmers. If you can't hack Bash grep, sed etc, then give C++ a try I'd say. If this sort of thing appeals to you and you'd like to make a start, let me know and I'll see if I can help with starting you off in the right direction at least with various tips and tricks of the trade. This type of more advanced programming skill is important for building programs that look good and work reliably and that are more newbie-friendly. Takes time and work though. What else is new ..... lol _________________ Life is too short to spend it in front of a computer |
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nic2109
Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Posts: 406 Location: Hayslope, near Middlemarch, Midlands, England |
It is said that there was once a leader of the Conservative Party in the UK who kept a supply of information/recruitment leaflets for the Special Constabulary (this is the volunteer police force) in his office. Whenever anyone wrote in to him complaining about the lack of police etc and how Law 'n Order was going to the dogs he simply sent a copy of the leaflet and suggested that instead of complaining why not volunteer? It was usually the last he ever heard from the complainant!
_________________ Nick |
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