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 Forum index » House Training » HOWTO ( Solutions )
How to do a FULL install of Puppy, to an empty HDD
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texas.chef94

Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Wortham, Texas

PostPosted: Tue 10 Jun 2008, 09:35    Post subject: Installing to HD
Subject description: Catdudes learning tool
 

People like you are a credit to linux and the learning curve. If you can remember back when all of this seemed scary well thats where I am at.and personally I am not fond of booting from the CD and that is just me. Not ready either to overcome being scared and following your learning tool. By the way it is absolutely the best I have ever encountered and I have made a few videos on HACCP before retiring. So given my being scared and seeking an alternative to installation is it possible to install to USB storage device and if so how?
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CatDude


Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 1432
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 10 Jun 2008, 15:05    Post subject: Re: Installing to HD
Subject description: Catdudes learning tool
 

Hello texas.chef94

First of all i want to say thakyou for such kind words regarding this howto, they are very much appreciated.

Secondly, i have never tried installing to any USB devices so i cannot help you in that respect.

Probably the best thing to do, would be to start a new thread in the Beginners Help section.
At least it would get more responses than you will get by just asking here.

Sorry i cant be of more help,
maybe i ought to look into this USB install business myself and make another howto.

CatDude
.

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nic2109

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 406
Location: Hayslope, near Middlemarch, Midlands, England

PostPosted: Tue 10 Jun 2008, 16:48    Post subject: Re: Installing to HD
Subject description: Catdudes learning tool
 

texas.chef94 wrote:
So given my being scared and seeking an alternative to installation is it possible to install to USB storage device and if so how?

I assume that you mean a flash memory device and not a USB disk drive.

If so; to encourage you - it's almost exactly the same. You have to format the whole drive, so I'm not sure what would happen regarding the need for some swap space. This is only important if your RAM is well below 256 Mb, so might not bother you.

I'd say just give it a try - plug in your USB drive and launch the wizard; it will find it (probably as sdb1) so follow the excellent instructions.

If, however, you are thinking of using a USB disk drive then that may be different so needs a bit of research. I see no reason why it shouldn't work. I sometimes leave mine attached and the boot sequence tries it as an HDD but complains (correctly) that there is no boot sector and moves on to the next option. As they are generally much higher capacity it's not something to just try and see what happens - unless you have one you are willing to experiment with. I just wouldn't try it if there's anything on it you want to keep!

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paulh

Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Tue 10 Jun 2008, 18:42    Post subject:  Re: Installing to HD
Subject description: Catdudes learning tool
 

texas.chef94 wrote:
So given my being scared and seeking an alternative to installation is it possible to install to USB storage device and if so how?

It is possible to install to a USB flash drive. I have done it with Puppy 4.00. After you put a FAT formatted USB device in a USB port, you have to mount it. (Apparantly the flash drive can be formatted in ext2 or ext3, but I haven't tried that.) There is a "Mount" icon on the desktop. Then start the Puppy Universal Installer. Its first screen asks what type of medium to install to. One of the choices is "USB Flash Drive". Choose that and just follow the default choices. I found that section 4.2.1 in the Puppy Linux 3.01 manual was helpful. The manual's URL is http://www.puppy-linux.info/en/manual/main.html

There are a couple of questions that you need to answer for yourself, however:

1. Is your flash drive U3 compatible? If so, it will probably have U3 or U3 smart written somewhere on the case. My flash drive was a U3, and the extra partition gave me fits. If yours is a U3 type, you should either wipe out the U3 software and partition or change to a non-U3 type for the installation. I wound up using a compact flash card formatted in FAT32 that was plugged into a reader in a USB port.

2. Can your box boot from a USB flash drive? You have to check the BIOS for that answer. On the computer's startup screen, there is usually a sentence like "Press F1 to enter setup." Enter setup and look for the boot options. Usually there is a boot order, with either floppy disk or CD first and hard drive last. Most likely you will not need to make any changes to the boot order and would simply hit whatever key is required to exit without saving changes.

If your box is like mine and can't boot from a flash drive, then you would have to boot from a floppy. Here is the URL to download Wakepup. It worked for me. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=7979

Here is another file that may be helpful. http://www.puppylinux.com/flash-puppy.htm

This part of the thread probably ought to move over to the Beginner's Forum. There are several similar threads there.
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texas.chef94

Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Wortham, Texas

PostPosted: Wed 11 Jun 2008, 08:37    Post subject: Installing to HD
Subject description: with XP
 

What the heck Cat Dude yoi described it so clearly, but just for grins at image 8 lets assume XP home was on C drive and there was some 30 gig free. How much for XP how much for puppy and add ons and how would it change your moves at image 8 Thanks as I said previously what a learning curve
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CatDude


Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 1432
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed 11 Jun 2008, 16:37    Post subject:  

Hello texas.chef94

### ANY MESSING AROUND WITH YOUR WINDOWS PARTITIONS IS DONE ENTIRELY AT YOUR OWN RISK ###
###......................................I WILL NOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE IF THINGS GO WRONG............................................###

texas.chef94 wrote:

but just for grins at image 8 lets assume XP home was on C drive and there was some 30 gig free.


When you say free, do you mean that there is 30 gig unallocated,
or just 30 gig not actually being used on the C drive.

If the former, then just create a partition for Puppy and a SWAP partition, in the unallocated space.
(See the example below)

If the latter, then i suppose you will need to resize the C drive,
this is probably best done from within windows using whatever software you have available.
It may even be prudent to defrag the C drive prior to making any changes to it.

If you haven't got any software such as Partition Magic whatever,
you could always download and then burn to CD the GPartedLiveCD.ISO

This page explains how to resize a partition: HOW TO RESIZE PARTITION
(Again, see example below)

texas.chef94 wrote:

How much for XP


How long is a piece of string ?
Seriously, only you can answer that.
How much space is it taking up already ?
Are you going to be installing many more programs into it or not ?
Maybe just add say another 5 gig on top of whatever size it is already.
So if it is already say 10 gig resize the C drive to 15 gig,
and leave the remainder for Puppy and SWAP partitions

texas.chef94 wrote:

how much for puppy and add ons


Puppy doesn't need all that much on its own.
I usually give each Puppy version its own partition of 5 gig,
this is enough for several backup copies (in the case of a frugal install)
plus any .sfs packages such as OpenOffice whatever.

5 gig is well big enough for a full install too.

As to the SWAP partition, like it says in the howto,
it is usually recommended to make it twice the amount of available RAM you have.

###############################################
This is an example only
###############################################
Depending on the size of the drive you have,
here is a possible partitioning scheme.
(it assumes a 40 gig drive and sizes are for example only)

/dev/hda1..........NTFS..........15Gig..........XP Home Edition ..........(Also known as your C drive)..........Primary
/dev/hda2..........Fat32...........1Gig..........(Sharing for both windows & Puppy)........................................Primary
/dev/hda3..........SWAP...........1Gig..........(Linux SWAP for Puppy - 2xRAM)................................................Primary
/dev/hda4..........Extended...................(Container for the following partitions).......................................Extended
/dev/hda5..........Ext3...........5Gig..........Puppy number one............................................................................Logical..........boot
/dev/hda6..........Ext3...........5Gig..........Puppy number two.............................................................................Logical
/dev/hda7..........Ext3...........5Gig..........Puppy number three.........................................................................Logical
/dev/hda8..........Ext3...........8Gig..........Your Personal Data............................................................................Logical

###############################################

So, using the above example
You would install Puppy to /dev/hda5
and install GRUB also to /dev/hda5 (when asked, as in Image-34)
AND to MBR (when asked, as in Image-35)

After clicking No at image-37
and BEFORE rebooting.
Click on the mount icon on the desktop
Now mount /dev/hda5
and check your menu.lst (/dev/hda5/boot/grub/menu.lst)

It should have an entry for your windows,
similar to below.

Code:

# Other bootable partition config begins
 title Windows (on /dev/hda1)
 rootnoverify (hd0,0)
 makeactive
 chainloader +1
# Other bootable partition config ends


If it hasn't then ADD the above entry.
(that is how you will access windows via the GRUB menu)

There should also be an entry for Puppy on /dev/hda5
similar to below.

Code:

# Linux bootable partition config begins
  title Linux at (on /dev/hda5)
  root (hd0,4)
  kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/hda5 ro vga=normal
# Linux bootable partition config ends


Then continue following the howto


I hope this is of some help.

CatDude
.

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76yrold

Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed 11 Jun 2008, 17:48    Post subject: Thanks
Subject description: Plenty gracious, patient folks out there
 

Ok I have it all and you will hear no more from me on installation
Laughing Thanks so much and catdude you are indeed a gracious patient dude
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CatDude


Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 1432
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 12 Jun 2008, 06:46    Post subject: Re: Thanks
Subject description: Plenty gracious, patient folks out there
 

Hello 76yrold

76yrold wrote:

Thanks so much and catdude you are indeed a gracious patient dude


Thank you for the compliment, if anything i wrote has assisted you in any way,
then that is good enough for me.

CatDude
.

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nic2109

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 406
Location: Hayslope, near Middlemarch, Midlands, England

PostPosted: Thu 12 Jun 2008, 09:21    Post subject:  

Quote:
If you haven't got any software such as Partition Magic whatever,
you could always download and then burn to CD the GPartedLiveCD.ISO

I used to use a Gparted .iso for this but as the gui is really flaky I now just use a Puppy live CD (any version) and run with pfix=ram. Once booted use gparted from the system menu. Altogether it's a much more satisfactory process.

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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 1792
Location: South Australia

PostPosted: Fri 20 Jun 2008, 02:47    Post subject:  

nic2109 wrote:

Ooops - I think you're correct. I'm fairly sure that is a feature of Frugal, but I'm not so sure either about an HD install. I agree that it's best not to say anything in that case.


I can confirm fsck is run on bootup using puppy 4.00 on a frugal install.
The process is very slow on an EXT2 partition. I have puppy 4.00 (frugal) also installed on a FAT32 partition and fsck runs much faster.

Back when I was running puppy 3.01 (frugal) on an NTFS partition it was even faster, hardy noticeable.

nic2109, is there any benefit of installing (frugal) to EXT3 rather than EXT2?

I'm not going back to NTFS. Too hard to fix when it breaks as I don't use windows any more.

In the past I have used full installs on 3.01 and 2.13. Although boot time is faster frugal is much more convenient to manage.

Regards

Smokey
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davidA


Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 64
Location: Location: Location:

PostPosted: Fri 20 Jun 2008, 03:08    Post subject:  

A question:

I pretty much followed this same procedure a few days ago. What I am uncertain of, is how can I tell if my swap partition is actually active (and being written to) - if I mount and view it, it appears to be empty - which might (I suppose) be because the system does not actually need it....
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Scoticus


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 443
Location: Erskine, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri 20 Jun 2008, 07:00    Post subject: How to do a FULL install of Puppy, to an empty HDD  

CatDude

The guide provided by you would need little or no alteration for a USB installation. What you provided is more that adequate.

If anyone has any difficulty then there is a very good Howto: bootable usb drive puppy from windows by AliG which gives the full story.

One thing I would like to ask is when when you have a full HD to play with do you need a swap partition. Is a swap essential if say you have 80GB to play with for example?

I am between either working on multisession DVD or totally devoting a system to Puppy. At the moment I am leaning towards the HD as multisessions can be slow to load but once they are there there is little or no difference to using my USB pen drive.

Keep up the good work

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Puppy 4.0; AMD Athlon X2 4400 Processor; 2048MB DDR2 Memory; 320GB HD; nVidia 6100 Graphics; 16x Dual Layer DVD burner; Philips 190X5 monitor,Epson Stylus Photo R265 printer. Logitech LX 710 cordless keyb & mouse
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CatDude


Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 1432
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 20 Jun 2008, 08:02    Post subject:  

Hi Scoticus

Scoticus wrote:

The guide provided by you would need little or no alteration for a USB installation. What you provided is more that adequate.


As i dont have any experience with USB installs,
i think i will leave it to those that do.

Scoticus wrote:

One thing I would like to ask is when when you have a full HD to play with do you need a swap partition. Is a swap essential if say you have 80GB to play with for example?


Somebody more knowledgable than myself would need to answer that,
my thinking is that it is best to have one (all Linux Distro's seem to create one).
The main contention is normally, what size should it be.

In fact, in my PC i have a 80GB + 160GB HDD's
and i have a 1GB (2xRAM) SWAP partition on each of them.
Excessive ? Maybe
Problematic ? Not so far as i can tell.


CatDude
.

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paulh177


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 875
Location: ST862228

PostPosted: Fri 20 Jun 2008, 08:33    Post subject: Re: How to do a FULL install of Puppy, to an empty HDD  

Scoticus wrote:
One thing I would like to ask is when when you have a full HD to play with do you need a swap partition. Is a swap essential if say you have 80GB to play with for example?

The need for a swap partition is dependent not on the size of the hard disk, but the amount of RAM that you have available.
I can't remember the minimum memory requirement for various Puppy versions, but I'll give an example.
Say, Puppy version X needs 128MB of RAM to work effectively, and your machine has only 64MB. You might create a swap partition of 128MB, and Puppy will use that space when and if it needs it as if the machine had 192MB of RAM.
There are different views on how to decide on how big a swap partition needs to be, and if you search the forum you will find plenty of threads on the subject.
If the machine has an 8GB or 80GB or 800GB hard disk will make no difference to the need for a swap partition.
hope this helps
paul
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Scoticus


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 443
Location: Erskine, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri 20 Jun 2008, 08:51    Post subject: How to do a FULL install of Puppy, to an empty HDD  

Many thanks CatDude & Paul

I will bear this in mind when I come to a final decision. Currently I am using s 2GB pen drive and no swap without any problem and this prompted the question.

Looks like a case of safety first to me

Again thanks
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