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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Alpha 5 of Puppy 4.1
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Tue 29 Jul 2008, 23:16    Post subject:  Alpha 5 of Puppy 4.1
Subject description: go to 'Bugs' section for more info - this is JUST AN ANNOUNCEMENT
 

Alpha 5 of Puppy 4.1 for testers
http://tmxxine.com/wik/wikka.php?wakka=PuppyDingo41

Click on Alpha 5 it takes you here

Index of /pub/linux/distributions/puppylinux/test/puppy-4.1alpha5

download this file:
puppy-4.0.5-seamonkey.iso

NB: For testing and developers - not for general usage wait for the Beta releases for that

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Last edited by Lobster on Fri 01 Aug 2008, 06:06; edited 2 times in total
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Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Wed 30 Jul 2008, 05:06    Post subject:  

Where's the zdrv for it?
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BarryK
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7082
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Wed 30 Jul 2008, 08:09    Post subject:  

There is no zdrv. This pup is built with all modules in the pup_405.sfs file. That's how it will be from now on, or in the initrd.
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
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Location: Manila

PostPosted: Wed 30 Jul 2008, 11:15    Post subject: size and boot time  

Yes, a new approach to booting in 4.1. I just wonder how small size can be achieved in succeeding boots in the same machine. Puppy is not really a hard-disk-bound distro, so it needs to be light after shedding off some unneeded drivers (for repeated use in the same machine).

Say, if I have 3 different PCs, can I boot one after another and expect Puppy to create a hardware profile, then I can rebuild/trim theinitrd.gz (or sfs) based on this profile?
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BarryK
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7082
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Wed 30 Jul 2008, 21:47    Post subject: Re: size and boot time  

raffy wrote:
Yes, a new approach to booting in 4.1. I just wonder how small size can be achieved in succeeding boots in the same machine. Puppy is not really a hard-disk-bound distro, so it needs to be light after shedding off some unneeded drivers (for repeated use in the same machine).

Say, if I have 3 different PCs, can I boot one after another and expect Puppy to create a hardware profile, then I can rebuild/trim theinitrd.gz (or sfs) based on this profile?

In theory, yes.

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otropogo
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PostPosted: Wed 30 Jul 2008, 22:52    Post subject: Re: Alpha 5 of Puppy 4.1 released
Subject description: cutting edge Puppy Alpha released by Barry
 

Lobster wrote:
Alpha 5 of Puppy 4.1 for testers
http://tmxxine.com/wik/wikka.php?wakka=PuppyDingo41


So where is it? When I go to the URL the page says "alpha 4", and the iso is alpha 4, not alpha 5.
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul 2008, 01:58    Post subject:  

When you click on Alpha 5 it takes you here

Index of /pub/linux/distributions/puppylinux/test/puppy-4.1alpha5

download this file

puppy-4.0.5-seamonkey.iso 29-Jul-2008 21:00 92M

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otropogo
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul 2008, 16:23    Post subject:  

Lobster wrote:
When you click on Alpha 5 it takes you here

Index of /pub/linux/distributions/puppylinux/test/puppy-4.1alpha5

download this file

puppy-4.0.5-seamonkey.iso 29-Jul-2008 21:00 92M


Jeesh! Why not just post the link or the URL to the download page?

distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/puppylinux/test/puppy-4.1alpha5/

(my apologies to other would be downloaders, although I tried for at least ten minutes, I can't figure out how to create a URL link on this system - you'll have to copy and paste)

Not being on the right wavelength, I clicked on:

"Where do I find out about the Alpha Release?

* Forum thread∞
* Developers Blog∞
* The iso's are available here"

Pretty dumb eh? Looking for the latest alpha release in the alpha release directory. I had the silly idea that all alphas are experimental and recommemded for testers only.

Maybe we need a new label, like "pre-alpha" or "proto-alpha"!.
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Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul 2008, 17:05    Post subject:  

I am delighted to report that 4.1-alpha-5, with the scsi-1 kernel for my Adaptec scsi adapter, assigns drives their letters in what I recognize as "correct" order, speaking as a Gentoo user. That is, sda is the first true scsi drive, then after the scsi drives are done the ata drives get their letters, and finally the removeable usb stick.

Display order in PMount is still not quite right though.

Screen capture

They should be displayed in PMount in correct sort order as:

sda --> the Quantum Atlas V 9 WLS scsi drive with 3 partitions
sdb --> the Quantum Atlas V 9 WLS scsi drive with 2 partitions
sdc --> the Quantum Atlas V 18 WLS scsi drive with 2 partitions
sdd --> the WDC WD102BA ATA drive with 3 partitions
sde --> the Samsung SV4002H ATA drive with 3 partitions

Now to see if a full install to an scsi drive will boot...
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edoc


Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 4384
Location: Southeast Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul 2008, 17:28    Post subject:  

Is this ready to test on my Panasonic Toughbook CF-28 where I have been struggling with USB and PCMCIA?

Or is the work on that part, which I have read about elsewhere in Puppy-land, still underway?

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Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul 2008, 18:20    Post subject:  

I am thrilled to report that booting the full install on sda2 (first scsi drive, 2nd partition)...with BIOS setup boot order told to boot the first ata disk first...i.e. from grub menu.lst on the first ata drive (sdd1)...works. However, Grub's conventions as to how drives are numbered are a bit puzzling. First ata drive is hd0, as you would expect, but second ata drive is hd5, which is doubly strange since there are only five drives present and so you would think the numbering would top out at hd4. First scsi drive is hd1.

(note: when installing, choose "Internal (IDE or SATA) hard drive" as the media that you want to install Puppy to, even though it's really an SCSI hard drive)

Now let's see if I can make it boot this full install from a grub menu.lst residing on the same scsi drive as the Puppy 4.1-alpha-5 Puppy full install...with BIOS setup told to boot the first scsi drive first, and the adapter's own BIOS told to allow it...

Last edited by Sit Heel Speak on Thu 31 Jul 2008, 22:59; edited 1 time in total
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Sit Heel Speak


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2595
Location: downwind

PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul 2008, 20:17    Post subject:  

I am dancing on popcorn clouds buttered with sunshine to report that...

The Age of Puppy Linux Booting Natively On SCSI has finally arrived.


If in BIOS Setup I make the first scsi disk the first boot device...grub installed to the first scsi disk's mbr (installing to the root superblock didn't work)...grub installed to /dev/sda (i.e. menu.lst on sda1)...the actual full install to which the menu.lst entry points, can be on any scsi disk with a Linux partition. When booting with scsi disk as the first boot device, unlike in the above test, the boot disk is (in the grub menu lines) hd0.

I won't test it, but would presume that a frugal install on scsi can be started this way too.

***Allelujah!!!***

And now, suddenly I have enough disk space to go test a few more puplets...
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4813
Location: GB

PostPosted: Fri 01 Aug 2008, 01:15    Post subject:  

Genius lurks in many, but few are able to unlock it!
Well done. Would be a good idea to revisit norte3's thread and provide some additional detail. Somewhere, I outlined some of the aspects of setting up the drive jumpers, etc on scsi kit.
Any comments on access speed?
Incidentally, this thread is becoming confused with the bugs thread again.
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4796
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Fri 01 Aug 2008, 04:57    Post subject: features like how the Puppy sfs is used (simply mounted)  

Sage:
Quote:
this thread is becoming confused with the bugs thread

So maybe add "features" to the title, to make this a discussion of 4.1alpha5 features.

I guess that with flash devices now in wide usage, that Puppy can be flash-device centric (in contrast to being CD-centric). Maybe these points will help clarify:

- Using a live CD (in a single-CD PC) and not wanting to touch the hard disk, Puppy has to load itself to RAM so that the CD drive can be used. This increases the RAM requirement, and at times causes an embarrassing crippled Puppy (when the available RAM gets exhausted). Copying the sfs to RAM also lengthens the boot time.

- Flash devices can function as virtual hard disk, especially in USB2-equipped PCs. In fact, experience in the eeePC shows that the external SD/USB/flash interface can be faster than the inbuilt flash storage.

In alpha5, Unipup's (4.1's) design is to include all drivers (?) in the Puppy sfs, and I noted that the boot device is always mounted regardless of RAM size (my tests did not go over 512 MB RAM). However, performance is still snappy in 600-800 mhz Celerons.

Of course, for people who may want to use smaller sfs (with cutdown drivers or less applications), the remastering tool is always available.

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otropogo
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Aug 2008, 23:57    Post subject: Re: features like how the Puppy sfs is used (simply mounted)  

raffy wrote:
Sage:
Quote:
this thread is becoming confused with the bugs thread

So maybe add "features" to the title, to make this a discussion of 4.1alpha5 features.


IMO It doesn't make much sense to talk exclusively about new features when so many old "features" don't work reliably, (or at all).

raffy wrote:
I guess that with flash devices now in wide usage, that Puppy can be flash-device centric (in contrast to being CD-centric). Maybe these points will help clarify:

- Using a live CD (in a single-CD PC) and not wanting to touch the hard disk, Puppy has to load itself to RAM so that the CD drive can be used. This increases the RAM requirement, and at times causes an embarrassing crippled Puppy (when the available RAM gets exhausted). Copying the sfs to RAM also lengthens the boot time.


There are other, arguably more important, reasons for loading Puppy entirely into RAM, AND for keeping that minimum RAM requirement small, than freeing up the CD/DVD drive.

1. support for machines with limited RAM, particularly older laptops

2. speed of operation

3. battery life on laptops

As system requirements increase, more experienced users will see less and less reason to stay with Puppy instead of switching to more mainstream distributions, such as Xubuntu. And with them will go much of the support for the beginners.

And how significant a factor is any potential shortening of boot-up time in the greater scheme of things? I mean, what fraction of your daily Puppy time will be saved by any conceivable shortening of boot-up?

raffy wrote:
- Flash devices can function as virtual hard disk, especially in USB2-equipped PCs. .....


Especially?? How many potential Puppy users do you think will have internal (non-USB) flash drives? And the other question is: how long will those flash cards last when being written to constantly like a mechanical drive?

And unless I've missed some recent announcement, booting from pcmcia-based flash (or network, or scsi),even with a floppy boot disk, is still just a fond wish in Puppy land.


raffy wrote:
Of course, for people who may want to use smaller sfs (with cutdown drivers or less applications), the remastering tool is always available.


So you take a distro distinguished by its ease of use for beginners and by its ability to run reasonably well on trailing edge systems low on speed, memory, and storage.

Then you gear it towards the power users equipped with significantly greater hardware resources and vastly greater computing skills, and tell the beginners with their minimal machines to "roll your own" (and on what, I wonder, since they probably won't be able to boot Puppy in the first place?).

What's left? Just another unremarkable nerdy distro in a field of dozens..
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