How best to do minimal Puppy?

What features/apps/bugfixes needed in a future Puppy
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RMW
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How best to do minimal Puppy?

#1 Post by RMW »

I know this has been brought up before, but is there anyway we can get a stripped down, no nonsense version of Puppy, which can then be customized by the user?

I'm sorry, but I personally don't need 8 editors. vi and ONE text editor are all a base system needs, and anything else (Abby, HTML editors, etc.) should be picked by the user.

One browser. Personally I'd like to be able to pick it myself, but I can understand there is some need to have one in from the get go.

Get rid of the games. If I wanted to play games I'd use Windows.

Information managers, date books, to do lists, etc. All these do is fatten up the system. Same for graphics processing programs. Give me one image viewer and I'm happy.

You have a great system set up with PupGet and DotPups, leverage it to the fullest. Shave Puppy down to the bare minimum, just enough to let someone boot up, connect to the Net, and run PupGet / DotPup to choose what THEY want, instead of what you think everyone needs. You'll get a much cleaner, more flexible distro.

You may now yell and scream at me and throw rocks :)

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dewdrop
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shave this puppy

#2 Post by dewdrop »

Hi RMW,

I think most of the regulars on the forum would rather throw suggestions, hints, and help your way....rather than stones, etc.

You might like to try this version of Puppy - it's called Barebones, and might be what you are asking for. In the link below, you will see various versions of puppy...look for the one that says:

puppy-barebones-1.0...> 19-Jul-2005 09:07 39.9M

Thanks for your interest in Puppy...

dewdrop

http://mymirrors.homelinux.org/puppy/

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Pizzasgood
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#3 Post by Pizzasgood »

The true point of Puppy is not a barebones system, it is an os that will work well for the most people, with the emphasis on "work well." One of the selling points about Puppy is it comes standard with just about everything Average Joe needs, and packs it into a 50-60MB iso. If I wanted a barebones, I'd get one of those floppy-linux's and build on that.

I know there are a couple redundancies with Puppy, but some things should just come with an os, such as a graphics editor, or a document editor. It is a major inconvenience to have to download all the stuff you want to use separately. Not everyone has an internet connection, so they would have to go to a friends house to get what they need. That's going to tick off average Joe (and his buddy).

On the other hand, if someone wants a barebones system, they obviously know what they're doing, so it wouldn't be too much for them to just remaster their own cd. If you want a barebones system, try making your own. It's really not that hard. I've never used Barry's remaster script, but it sounds a whole lot easier than the one I wrote and use. Even with mine it wasn't too bad.

So, my suggestions are to use the barebones version, make your own, or use a real barebones os. No offense or anything, it's just that Puppy is'n supposed to be barebones by default.[/quote]
[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
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klhrevolutionist
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rude

#4 Post by klhrevolutionist »

I found the way you presented your request rude.
But, most people take things the wrong way, so I'm sure it was just me ?
Anyway, It would not be a chore to create a barebones puppy.
Tell you what I'll do. When the final release of puppy 1.0.6 is released
I will create a barebones iso torrent for those who want it. That is if a barebones is not released. That is if no one else was planning to do the same.
Heaven is on the way, until then let's get the truth out!

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gliezl
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#5 Post by gliezl »

Well I suggest some would create a poll, in order what aplications are to be included in barebones or something;

1) one browser
2) one editor
3) one email client
4) one word processor*
5) one spreadsheet program*
6) one photo editor
7) one DVD/CD burner
8} one window manager
9) one CHAT program

Well, like I said, only a suggestion. Anyone can have there violent reactions afterwards. :)

*optional
Last edited by gliezl on Wed 02 Nov 2005, 22:08, edited 1 time in total.
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jcagle
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#6 Post by jcagle »

For a very basic web browser, I say Links or Dillo.

For a full suite of web browsing and e-mail functionality, Opera, but I'm not convinced it's right for a barebones installation.

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rarsa
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#7 Post by rarsa »

Oh, but the question has an easy answer:

There are multiple options so the first time user can get the feel for it. Linux is about options
but is there anyway we can get a stripped down, no nonsense version of Puppy, which can then be customized by the user?
Yes, there is, it's called Puppy itself. It has the remaster scripts so you can customize an puppy ISO to your personal needs.

Puppy is a metadistribution in itself: witness pizzapup and graph pup and 50MB murgapup and many others.

So, yes, your point has been brought many times, and it has an easy answer.
gliezl wrote:Anyone can have there violent reactions afterwards.
I'm sure they would be of affection ;)

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Pizzasgood
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#8 Post by Pizzasgood »

One thing I forgot to mention is that everyone has a different opinion of barebones. Popular Science called Puppy barebones. I call floppy linuxes barebones. We're all different.
[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
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BarryK
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#9 Post by BarryK »

Use PCCC (Puppy Custom CD Creator), create your own barebones.

RMW
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#10 Post by RMW »

Honestly I wasn't trying to be rude. Every 6 months or so I scan through dozens of distributions and try out 4 or 5 of them. Puppy is honestly the best I've come across in years... and I'm old enough to remember when Linus released the first version. I see a huge amount of potential here.

Hmmm... I think a better way of saying it is that Puppy could be turned into a truly "modular" version of Linux. Very few distros manage what you have here, an ability to install, and in some cases uninstall, software with one or two clicks/commands. The one's that do are usually far too big, or require more technical knowledge than most users possess. Even if, as you say, one of the benefits is having everything Average Joe needs packed in one small distro, maybe a way to remove items, just in case someone is not "average"?

I've looked at remastering briefly, maybe after this semester. Differential Equations and Number Theory are eating up a lot of my free time :D I did eyeball PuppyUnleashed a couple days ago, but I think I'm missing something, since it looked like I'd have to install just about everything anyway. Also I'm running a WinXP install, which makes it a bit difficult, and I can't afford to tinker with the harddisk to make a new partition while I still need the comp for school. PCCC won't run for me since my "filesystem" is pup001 (albeit a huge one) on an ntfs drive.

gliezl, I'd argue that the word processor and spreadsheet are not necessary in a barebones system. If I wanted to install OpenOffice, having those two in there would be redundant, unless the ability to remove the preinstalled packages existed. Other than that it's a good list.

klhrevolutionist: sorry if I offended you, it wasn't meant that way. And thank you, a new barebones would definately be appreciated.

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MU
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#11 Post by MU »

the idea is not bad.
You could use a basic system, and an installationscript, that lets you choose if you want to have a "minioffice" (abiword), a "grafpup" (all the grafpup-packages), or an admin-puppy (xamp or 7 MB mini-apache+php: http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/dis ... .54.tar.gz , ssh and so on).

The PCCC would allow to build such a system, we just need someone who can offer enough time to create it ;)

Greets, Mark

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gliezl
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#12 Post by gliezl »

RMW wrote: gliezl, I'd argue that the word processor and spreadsheet are not necessary in a barebones system.
Well, it's ok. Word Processor & Spreadsheet program removed! :)
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sunburnt_

discussion solution!

#13 Post by sunburnt_ »

See my post in the Suggestions forum.

I proposed that Puppy be made to scan for a selection of cram files, show what apps. are in them, so a choice can be made as to what apps. will be available to the user.
A menu choice would allow selecting a different one later to change to.

Maybe more than one cram file could be mounted at a time, making more apps. available (unionfs).

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Marv
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Barebones interest

#14 Post by Marv »

Yep, it doesn't seem to go away does it. My most robust pup (since .85 or so) was built on the 1.04 barebones and I've yet to best that in 1.05 or 1.06 though 1.06 has some capabilities I'd like on a day to day basis. The remaster scripts are problematic for me on a very slow connection and I have yet to get unleashed going in 1.06 even with a clean reinstall of all unleashed.

I agree the term barebones is slippery. Barebones as a firewall/NAT machine may mean Coyote on a floppy where for a solid server it may mean Tinysofa classic.

For Puppy, I think the crux is that adding with either pupget or dotpup is quite smooth but removal in general is more difficult so what I would call a core iso can be quite useful. With wget and Dillo one can add a preferred browser (Opera in my case) simply and really the games and minor duplications seem pretty small potatoes.

Just thoughts
Pups currently in kennel :D Older LxPupSc and X-slacko-4.4 for my users; LxPupSc, LxPupSc64 and upupEF for me. All good pups indeed, and all running savefiles for look'n'feel only. Browsers, etc. solely from SFS.

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sunburnt
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#15 Post by sunburnt »

I'm sure what RMW ment was the kernel + Image.gz for the console + an almost empty usr_cram.fs file to begin adding to.
The cram file would have Xwin + a couple of WMs, or maybe a selection of cram files with just 1 type of WM in each.
And the Wizard-Wizard & other utilities that configure Puppy of course.

Let the builder choose: file manager, web browser, & other apps. to add., as said... easier to add than to remove apps.
Maybe a lot easier starting point than a complete rebuild ala Unleashed?
Put it in a zip file for download & let the building begin.

An easy start for: Freevo (DVR-Pup), openMosix or NX (ClusterPup), BackStreet Ruby multi work stations on 1 PC (CerberusPup or HydraPup), network attached storage (NAStPup), & many more.

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dulac
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#16 Post by dulac »

Pizzasgood wrote:I know there are a couple redundancies with Puppy, but some things should just come with an os, such as a graphics editor, or a document editor.
...
On the other hand, if someone wants a barebones system, they obviously know what they're doing, so it wouldn't be too much for them to just remaster their own cd.
[1st]
Well , the true is that most people don't use a graphis editor. Some do!
Most people use a document editor... Some don't!

[2nd]
However rude the request, it was... It made some rings to bell when connected with your previous comment:

The hardest part of linux, for (maybe) begginers and initiated ones, is in the installing of programs. I think any distro, specially Puppy, would be mature when such problem is gone (Ignoring other issues, please).

So I envision a future Puppy as one like an easy Lego. Were is simple to unload (*.pup)s , to load (*.pup)s ... and to save the new state to a new ISO file. We have now the Lego... the easy will come latter.

It is less far than it was some time ago, thanks to PUPPY's Master Arquitect (and big dad) ;)

Yeap! It may not be that far... If the idea is on the table.
(unless we are already there... are we?...)

Regards,
DuLac
There are so many good and free OSs out there... But most people are stucked with
the mouse-maker OS because of all the nice programs they didn't do... Sad! Isn't it?!?

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Flash
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#17 Post by Flash »

RMW, your post didn't seem rude at all to me. Quite the opposite.

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dulac
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Re: Barebones interest

#18 Post by dulac »

Marv wrote: 1 - I agree the term barebones is slippery. Barebones as a firewall/NAT machine may mean Coyote on a floppy where for a solid server it may mean Tinysofa classic.

2 - For Puppy, I think the crux is that adding with either pupget or dotpup is quite smooth but removal in general is more difficult so what I would call a core iso can be quite useful.

3 - With wget and Dillo one can add a preferred browser (Opera in my case) simply and really the games and minor duplications seem pretty small potatoes.
Yap! My thoughts to...

1 - A barebones should have what is needed to evolve:
a) an install/remove utility
b) A text editor (for configuration)
c) A basic browser to get applications.

2 - removing is as important as installing.
It shoud be easy as 123.
Puppy seems to be heading there!

3 - With those above there's no need to worry about the completeness
of Puppy... it will adapt to the users need as a modular distro.
IF the new state is saved to a user build Puppy.
But then, beaware of malware Puppys.

Regards,
DuLac.
There are so many good and free OSs out there... But most people are stucked with
the mouse-maker OS because of all the nice programs they didn't do... Sad! Isn't it?!?

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Pizzasgood
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#19 Post by Pizzasgood »

In my experience with Legos (pretty good, if I do say so myself, though nowhere near the level I've seen at places like the Iron Reich), they too are harder to take apart than to put togeather. Not only because it's painful to demolish that Megas-XLR inspired rubberband-powered gun with the chrome exhaust pipes, working trigger, monkey wrench, and 'dozer blade, but also because those pieces can get stuck togeather pretty tight. Better than a model that falls apart, though. :)

I actually haven't taken apart that gun yet. I need to get a decent digital camera so I can savor its goodness forever, and stick it on my website like I promised to over a year ago. Right now it's sitting on my shelf next to the big mech with cool shoulder pads that move with the shoulder and awesome fully-articlulated ankles that I built a year earlier.


As for barebone Puppies, I'm going to make one this weekend/week. Personal-Pan Puppy, I'll call it. The main reason I'm doing it is because I have some experaments I want to run that require remastering, and a smaller Puppy remasters faster. Also, I can then release mini-pups of the results and let the users make their own Puppy over them.
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sunburnt
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#20 Post by sunburnt »

Suggestion: Xwin, 2 or 3 WMs, setup wizards & std. utilities - editor, file man., etc.
No real apps. to speak of, end user can just use unleashed packages to flesh it out.
With any luck we can get new packages like GeexBox, MythTV, or a work alike, also cluster setups.
It'd be great, slim Puppies built with a paticular purpose in mind.

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