Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Thu 18 Sep 2014, 11:51
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Upgrade How To?[Solved]
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 1 of 2 [16 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct 2008, 13:10    Post subject:  Upgrade How To?[Solved]  

Could somebody link me to a 'How to' thread for upgrading please? I have failed to find one using conventional search facilities.
Last edited by DaveS on Tue 28 Oct 2008, 16:05; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11108
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct 2008, 13:52    Post subject:  

DaveS

Please

Upgrade Frugal or Full
Upgrade from what Version to what Version

Bruce

_________________
New! Puppy Linux Links Page
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct 2008, 17:12    Post subject:  

Sorry. I figured upgrading would be a general thing. Currently 4.1 frugal. Intend to upgrade as future releases come along and want to be prepared.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct 2008, 18:15    Post subject:  

One can have a frugal install and/or a full install.
Updating a frugal install consist to replace the old puppy files by the new one.
For this you can download the new iso and mount it while in the old version and then copy the new files over the old ones.

Best is to copy the pup_save.2fs as it will be upgrade on the next boot. So you can revert to that copy in case something went wrong.

_________________
Time savers:
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
Consult Wikka
Use peppyy's puppysearch

Last edited by Béèm on Mon 27 Oct 2008, 18:35; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct 2008, 18:22    Post subject:  

So I guess that way I would lose all settings and configuration, themes etc. of the older version?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct 2008, 18:40    Post subject:  

I didn't loose wifi configuration, my theme was still the same, my installed programs were still there, but I know some files are reset to 'factory'
So if you have made changes by hand, like I do to have a 24 hrs clock, that was reset.
In the upgrade process of the pup_save.2fs the old files are saved in /tmp/versioncleanup.
Before shutting down I save that directory to a save place, outside the pup_save.2fs, so I can review settings as they were.

_________________
Time savers:
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
Consult Wikka
Use peppyy's puppysearch
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11108
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct 2008, 08:52    Post subject:  

Béèm wrote:
One can have a frugal install and/or a full install.
Updating a frugal install consist to replace the old puppy files by the new one.
For this you can download the new iso and mount it while in the old version and then copy the new files over the old ones.

Best is to copy the pup_save.2fs as it will be upgrade on the next boot. So you can revert to that copy in case something went wrong.


Béèm,

You unknowingly and unintentionally left out something so critical, it cannot be over looked or overstated. Things have changed. The changes, and the potential problems associated with the changes have not been discussed or admitted, to my knowledge.

The person updating his pup_save file with 4.10 will need 100mb free space on the partition, at least on a hard disk install. (as for other media types, I have not tested)

Here's how it goes, Puppy hits that pup_save file and starts with the upgrade. It copies the 95mb pup_410.sfs to same partition as the pup_save file.

If there is not enough space for this file copy, that is perfectly fine. Puppy will happily use a damaged truncated file and make a mess of things. That's why the user better have that 100mb free.

Observing behavior shows there is not error checking. Puppy does not check for available space before the big file copy. Puppy does not check the integrity of the copied file.

The fact that there is a good pup_410.sfs on the cd disc, which could be used successfully, when there is not space is apparently unconsidered.

--------------

While I'm at it, I see no reason to believe Puppy performs any file system e2fsck and repair on the pup_save prior to the update.

I advise the user to check and repair the file system first.

This as not an argument, rather, a necessary augmentation of understanding of the 'improvements' in 4.10, for us helpers.

Bruce

Edit note: all this is according to my testing. The problem I find with my testing is it points at unspeakably poor programming. I prefer to be wrong in my test conclusions.

Without wanting to, I have passed a developer one of the highest insults possible. Nobody, not even a novice, ever presumes than any and all partitions everywhere always have 100mb free space.

That's why I'd rather be wrong, than pass such a high insult, if undeserved.

If I am wrong, I'll retract everything, apologize and fall on my sword.

_________________
New! Puppy Linux Links Page
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct 2008, 09:34    Post subject:  

Thanks for the replies guys, and the heads up Bruce, but to be honest, I am no farther forward in knowing how to go about this when the time comes. Do I boot from the latest .iso, start universal installer and look for an upgrade option, or just run through the normal install process?
As an aside, I have three bootable USB sticks with 4.1 on. I have 'current', that is to say, set up to my satisfaction .2fs and .410fs files stored on my hard drive. I use one of the USB sticks (8GB), two partitions, for serious work, and the other two for experimenting. When the experimenting gets too far out of hand, I just drop the two saved 'current' files back on the stick in question, and I am back where I started.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11108
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct 2008, 10:18    Post subject:  

DaveS wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys, and the heads up Bruce, but to be honest, I am no farther forward in knowing how to go about this when the time comes. Do I boot from the latest .iso, start universal installer and look for an upgrade option, or just run through the normal install process?
As an aside, I have three bootable USB sticks with 4.1 on. I have 'current', that is to say, set up to my satisfaction .2fs and .410fs files stored on my hard drive. I use one of the USB sticks (8GB), two partitions, for serious work, and the other two for experimenting. When the experimenting gets too far out of hand, I just drop the two saved 'current' files back on the stick in question, and I am back where I started.


Dave,

I'm not sure I understand your questions.

Following is an sketch of an aspect of Puppy's update behavior. Not 4.10 specific, just how Puppy is designed to behave.

If you boot from a Puppy CD, it will search for a pup_save file. If the pup_save file is an earlier version number, Puppy will start an arbitrary update.

Maybe all you wanted to do is evaluate the Puppy version on the CD, and had no intention of making an update. Doesn't make a single bit of difference. The upgrade is arbitrary.

Maybe you wanted an upgrade, but you had more than one pup_save file, doesn't matter in the least. You will get your upgrade on the file Puppy finds and wants to upgrade.

Users have had unexpected and unwanted upgrades and asked for a choice in the matter. Like a yes/no option?

Developers have never added that option. Don't ask, it doesn't work.

What works is understanding the nature of the software.

If you only want to boot a CD and don't want an unwanted upgrade, use the following option at the 5 second delay.

puppy pfix=ram

If you suddenly realize you forgot to enter those commands, and you really don't want an arbitrary upgrade, then hit the poweroff button as quickly as you can, might save the day.

If Puppy finds the pup_save file, its too late. Don't abort the process, just let it update and work through your disappointment.

So, there are ways to simply evaluate a Puppy version without it disturbing you installation. Then after you have decided you want the upgrade, you can control which pup_save file gets it.

Simplest way to determine which one gets the update, is get the others out of the way, Puppy can only find one, then it will be the right one.

If it sounds confusing, I think it is. Reduce confusion in the beginning by only having one frugal install.

There are people who have several frugal installs, which you apparently do. I suggest, until you can master how they all could interact or interfere, just stay with one Frugal Install and learn it good. But whatever you want is swell with me.

_________________
New! Puppy Linux Links Page
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct 2008, 10:32    Post subject:  

Ok Bruce, thanks. Got it now. Basically upgrading is an automatic affair. Cool. That way, I should be able to (hopefully) keep my configuration. I am stong on back-ups anyway, so it would be simple for me to revert.
Interesting thread. I was unable to find any info like this from conventional searches. Thanks again..............
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11108
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct 2008, 11:08    Post subject:  

DaveS wrote:
Ok Bruce, thanks. Got it now. Basically upgrading is an automatic affair. Cool. That way, I should be able to (hopefully) keep my configuration. I am stong on back-ups anyway, so it would be simple for me to revert.
Interesting thread. I was unable to find any info like this from conventional searches. Thanks again..............


Sorry Dave,

I was only talking about upgrading the pup_save file, which is automatic as I described.

If you do not want to use the CD ROM as your boot device, then an install of vmlinux, initrd.gz and pup_410.sfs needs to be made. Maybe manual, which is particularly easy on an upgrade, or by the installer. Often in an upgrade, the manual install can be an overwrite of vmlinux and initrd.gz the old pup_???.sfs deleted and the copy of the new one.

I don't know your booting scheme, software location, boot manager, or anything like that. But the paragraph above sketches the basics you need to know, if not using the CD as the boot media.

Bruce

_________________
New! Puppy Linux Links Page
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct 2008, 11:22    Post subject:  

I boot the whole thing from a USB. Keep the .sf files there too. My hard drive is not involved. Might as well not even spin up Smile
USB is 8GB. Two partitions. One reserved purely for music files so they dont end up in the .sf files.
Am about to experiment with backing up critical data to the music partition as it worries me having it all compressed into a single file that COULD become corrupted.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11108
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct 2008, 12:11    Post subject:  

Dave,

On a frugal install the Puppy operating systems are not critical and should not be backed up. The reason why is you have them already backed up on the cd disc.

The only critical file could be your pup_save file, which can be copied from one media to the other. This is not a compressed file. It is a file with files inside it.

Bruce

Hint: in your grub file you can add a second boot entry like the first and add the pfix=ram argument on the kernel line.

This way you can perform filesystem checks on the pup_save file as well as copy an inactive file from one place to another by booting into ram and bypassing the pup_save file.

_________________
New! Puppy Linux Links Page
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct 2008, 12:26    Post subject:  

This is how I operate, DaveS.
I don't burn a CD but I have the downloaded ISO available.
I boot from the version to replace with the option pfix=ram.
In this way I can safely copy the pup_save.2fs file to a safe place.
And indeed it is the occasion to run a filecheck (e2fsck) on it, as Bruce advises.
Then I mount the downloaded ISO with the new OS files.
I copy them over the old ones.
Then I reboot and say no for saving the pup_save.
No pfix=ram now.
If all goes well, a certain moment you will see that a version upgrade will be done and that the old replaced files will be put in /tmp/versioncleanup.
So bear in mind, as Bruce confirms, this is the upgrade of the pup_save file.
In the process the new pup_xxx.sfs will be copied as well.
Therefor Bruce made the warning to have 100MB free.
(I had once the situation that I didn't have enough space, but had no ill effect other then on the next boot the copy process of pup_xxx.sfs was attempted again)
But on one or two other occasions, altho I had enough MB free, I got a kernel panic. Don't know why, did a reboot and the version upgrade was done. This happened with the latest versions.

Once you have to the desktop you are in the new version with the upgrades pup_save.2fs.
The first thing I do then is to copy the /tmp/versioncleanup to a safe place outside the pup_save for later inspection.

Hope you see the picture now.

_________________
Time savers:
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
Consult Wikka
Use peppyy's puppysearch
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 28 Oct 2008, 13:37    Post subject:  

Yes thanks. Sorry it was such a load of work for you guys to write this. It is much appreciated, and I will try to payback by helping others. This thread is one to bookmark for sure...........
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 2 [16 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1109s ][ Queries: 11 (0.0124s) ][ GZIP on ]