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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Next Puppy Development » 4.x
Puppy 4.2 Deep Thought Development
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droope


Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 814
Location: Uruguay, Mercedes

PostPosted: Tue 30 Dec 2008, 14:46    Post subject:  

WhoDo wrote:
I don't have a problem with internationalisation of the menus, because it only involves modified .desktop files in /usr/share/applications directory.

OTOH, FULL internationalisation involves much more than that, and really should be in a dotpet or sfs add-on IMHO.


Translating the menu doesn't do much. Any person can read the english menu... The real issue comes when a non-english speaker wants to -for example- configure his network, or maybe his printer. Indications come there, but aren't readable for him...

The only thing that is needed in order to perform a full internationalization that isn't wasted every version change is to localize the scripts. Once localized, the .mo file would simply need to be modified a bit.

It is important that these scripts, once localized, are used in newer versions... Can someone guarantee that this happens once versions change?. If not, it is useless to localize them. (This has already happened before)


I think there isn't a lot more to translate, is there? Besides all aplications, I mean. I'm quite a noob Smile


Cheers
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10747
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Tue 30 Dec 2008, 15:22    Post subject:  

For a full translation lets look at Glibc+Gcc they have a combined 11MB of bin files that don't compress really all that much, we would lose Gxine, abiword, Gnumeric because puppy goal has always been keep it under 100MB. We couldn't even use a full utf8 in English because of the bins would put us over the limit. What I've seen is a lot of community support for localizations and remastering of puppy just for that purpose:)
The most I could foresee in the future is the .desktop files being change. And if people want scripts changed, then if they give me the translations, I'll change the text? We are 4 mb under the 100MB threshold . But addition maybe sfs translation packs could be an idea. But we do need support from the other languages to translate. I've used online translation web pages before and they are really bad. I hope this helps, I'm not trying to stomp on anything, actually I'm trying to build some support so things like this might happen, but just in a way that follows puppy's main path. Well thats how I feel about it, Maybe not everyone.
ttuuxxx

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue 30 Dec 2008, 15:55    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx wrote:
I've seen over 200MB of images in mine, really I should send JWM a email about it also. We have talked about it before but nothing ever came out of it, maybe this time Question

That would be a ROX problem, rather than JWM, wouldn't it? Either way, it is worth trying to fix for 4.2 IMHO.

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Dec 2008, 16:11    Post subject:  

yes your right Rox it is, a typo ,LOL I've been dealing a lot with Icewm and Jwm, thats whats been on my mind.
ttuuxxx

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droope


Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 814
Location: Uruguay, Mercedes

PostPosted: Tue 30 Dec 2008, 22:14    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx wrote:
For a full translation lets look at Glibc+Gcc they have a combined 11MB of bin files that don't compress really all that much, we would lose Gxine, abiword, Gnumeric because puppy goal has always been keep it under 100MB. We couldn't even use a full utf8 in English because of the bins would put us over the limit. What I've seen is a lot of community support for localizations and remastering of puppy just for that purpose:)
The most I could foresee in the future is the .desktop files being change. And if people want scripts changed, then if they give me the translations, I'll change the text? We are 4 mb under the 100MB threshold . But addition maybe sfs translation packs could be an idea. But we do need support from the other languages to translate. I've used online translation web pages before and they are really bad. I hope this helps, I'm not trying to stomp on anything, actually I'm trying to build some support so things like this might happen, but just in a way that follows puppy's main path. Well thats how I feel about it, Maybe not everyone.
ttuuxxx


Nono, i think we are not understanding each other. The right move here, in order to have the possibility to translate it, is that the program itself does not contain the text, and that the text is kept in a separate .mo file.

Then, if more people like me are willing to have a fully translated puppy and work towards it, they will be able to translate it themselves (and changes won't be lost every version change!).

This is what i speak of:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26790
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10747
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Tue 30 Dec 2008, 23:37    Post subject:  

droope wrote:
ttuuxxx wrote:
For a full translation lets look at Glibc+Gcc they have a combined 11MB of bin files that don't compress really all that much, we would lose Gxine, abiword, Gnumeric because puppy goal has always been keep it under 100MB. We couldn't even use a full utf8 in English because of the bins would put us over the limit. What I've seen is a lot of community support for localizations and remastering of puppy just for that purpose:)
The most I could foresee in the future is the .desktop files being change. And if people want scripts changed, then if they give me the translations, I'll change the text? We are 4 mb under the 100MB threshold . But addition maybe sfs translation packs could be an idea. But we do need support from the other languages to translate. I've used online translation web pages before and they are really bad. I hope this helps, I'm not trying to stomp on anything, actually I'm trying to build some support so things like this might happen, but just in a way that follows puppy's main path. Well thats how I feel about it, Maybe not everyone.
ttuuxxx


Nono, i think we are not understanding each other. The right move here, in order to have the possibility to translate it, is that the program itself does not contain the text, and that the text is kept in a separate .mo file.

Then, if more people like me are willing to have a fully translated puppy and work towards it, they will be able to translate it themselves (and changes won't be lost every version change!).

This is what i speak of:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26790

You mean like I did with pidgin some time back now
http://puppylinux.ca/tpp/ttuuxxx/programs/internet/pidgin2.2.1/pidgin-2.2.1-locales/
ttuuxxx

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4348

PostPosted: Wed 31 Dec 2008, 03:15    Post subject:  

I was playing around with the macpup addon and accidently got icewm & wbar combined down to 975kb... I was only shooting to get it down to 2mb but my internet was down & couldn't work on the web desktop so it got a buzz cut - that should be small enough eh?

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=261660#261660

ttuuxxx wrote:
I was just thinking guys, If one of our skilled developers wanted a small task really something that would be handy is a filter script that every time a image thumbnail is previewed that it compares against a preset limit like 10MB max, once it hits 10MB it automatically empties the /root/.thumbnails directory. Some people especially new users probably don't know about this hidden directory and could be slowing there pc's down a lot. I know once you reset your pc it gets emptied, but people like myself which run live and leave it on 24/7 for like 3 weeks before resetting would have a heck of a lot, I've seen over 200MB of images in mine, really I should send Rox-filer a email about it also. We have talked about it before but nothing ever came out of it, maybe this time Question
Thanks
ttuuxxx


or maybe a dialogue box that allows clearing that + browser cache, temp files,...

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
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Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed 31 Dec 2008, 03:40    Post subject:  

technosaurus wrote:
I was playing around with the macpup addon and accidently got icewm & wbar combined down to 975kb... I was only shooting to get it down to 2mb but my internet was down & couldn't work on the web desktop so it got a buzz cut - that should be small enough eh?


I personally never liked wbar or any of those type applications, They are more toys than anything, Not to say they don't have a purpose and that some people really enjoy them. I did like them for about 1 month around 5 years ago when I got one for xp, but after a month or so I was over it. Anyways nice size on the package Smile
ttuuxxx

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droope


Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 814
Location: Uruguay, Mercedes

PostPosted: Wed 31 Dec 2008, 09:30    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx wrote:
droope wrote:
ttuuxxx wrote:
For a full translation lets look at Glibc+Gcc they have a combined 11MB of bin files that don't compress really all that much, we would lose Gxine, abiword, Gnumeric because puppy goal has always been keep it under 100MB. We couldn't even use a full utf8 in English because of the bins would put us over the limit. What I've seen is a lot of community support for localizations and remastering of puppy just for that purpose:)
The most I could foresee in the future is the .desktop files being change. And if people want scripts changed, then if they give me the translations, I'll change the text? We are 4 mb under the 100MB threshold . But addition maybe sfs translation packs could be an idea. But we do need support from the other languages to translate. I've used online translation web pages before and they are really bad. I hope this helps, I'm not trying to stomp on anything, actually I'm trying to build some support so things like this might happen, but just in a way that follows puppy's main path. Well thats how I feel about it, Maybe not everyone.
ttuuxxx


Nono, i think we are not understanding each other. The right move here, in order to have the possibility to translate it, is that the program itself does not contain the text, and that the text is kept in a separate .mo file.

Then, if more people like me are willing to have a fully translated puppy and work towards it, they will be able to translate it themselves (and changes won't be lost every version change!).

This is what i speak of:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26790

You mean like I did with pidgin some time back now
http://puppylinux.ca/tpp/ttuuxxx/programs/internet/pidgin2.2.1/pidgin-2.2.1-locales/
ttuuxxx


I don't know exactly what you did, i mean using variables in the scripts instead of the actual text, with the possibility to modify the variables without modifying the script.

It would be a major step in internationalizing puppy...
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10747
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jan 2009, 03:54    Post subject:  

Hi guys in the off topic area I made a post about broken SSL well puppy has always been about innovation I was thinking why not add some added security to puppy and also help packagers out at the same time, kind of a kill 2 birds with one stone idea.

Some months ago I came across an MD5 SHA-1 checker, called Gtkhash
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=258974
it basically checks the 2 sums, very quickly, actually instantly Smile
and displays them in a box that you can copy and paste, which is handy for building packages to release for the general public.

But I've been thinking about the next evolution in pet package management. Below is an mock-up image for display purposes only, I don't have a working model and really wouldn't have a clue how to marriage the 2 apps together.

Ok how I envisaged was like this

Building packages
-whenever the dir2pet script is ran, it would output a MD5 + SHA-1 text next to the package so that package builders could paste the results to the forum when a package would be released maybe a file called PackageName-sum.txt

Installing a package

The pet package manager would have MD5 + SHA-1 capabilities already included and as soon as you click a pet it would look like below. Then the person installing the application could check the 2.
This would give the end user 2 things, a sense of security and a valid size check that the package was downloaded without error.
Theres on a few developers who I think could pull this off like Barry or Sigmund but if we did have this needed feature, It would make puppys package manager the most secure manager in the world. Well I never heard of this style of security on any package manager.
Also if we can't have this feature included in petget maybe just include the gtkhash pet in puppy and I could add it to the opening list of petget. Also a quick start in the rox right click menu would be ideal also.
Your call Whodo and developers alike.
ttuuxxx
pet.png
 Description   
 Filesize   21.87 KB
 Viewed   1469 Time(s)

pet.png


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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jan 2009, 09:14    Post subject:  

2 good ideas

Like it Very Happy

droope

I think this is excellent, and hope someone is able to implement it

Have you posted the idea over on the developer blog?

ttuuxxx

Spotted your GTKhash last time around - seem to recall having the same thought - like why don't we have this in Puppy before anyone else

Innovation gets you noticed - & copied Wink

PS nice one on the Wbar size, Techno

Aitch Smile

Last edited by Aitch on Thu 01 Jan 2009, 09:38; edited 1 time in total
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10747
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jan 2009, 09:37    Post subject:  

Whodo wanted a version of Wbar that worked with my new new icewm pet, I looked at technosaurus version, did some updates and then repackaged it, then I went back and removed icewm and the jwm2icewm and basically just left Wbar and the needed extras for icewm to work. Here's the pet.
Ps I personally also feel due to the size nature this package should be part of the repo but not included by default, I would rather see something like gtkhash included, There is a need by many to have added security and simplicity mixed together. Most new users have no idea how to check MD5 and now that SSL is broken we have no way of testing SHA-1 unless we use this sort of application, by default puppy doesn't have a check for SHA-1, well not I know of.
ttuuxxx
removed the wbar due to missing icons in jwm

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Last edited by ttuuxxx on Thu 01 Jan 2009, 13:25; edited 1 time in total
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jan 2009, 09:40    Post subject:  

Quote:
There is a need by many to have added security and simplicity mixed together


Aye to that, ttuuxxx Very Happy

Whodo, please give serious consideration to this, please

Aitch Smile
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10747
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 01 Jan 2009, 12:17    Post subject:  

I found a very small command line alternative for Sha1 and 5 other formats, you can read about the release
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=262030#262030
Basically the work the same as md5sum via the commandline but instead you type
sha1 package name followed by the extension
md5 package name followed by the extension
sha256 package name followed by the extension
etc
But the real nice thing is that it should be real easy and very small to add md5 and sha1 to the package manager Smile or for someone build a gui for the bins, like PsumCalculator Smile
here's the Sha1 & MD5 the rest you can find at the link
ttuuxxx
md5.pet
Description 
pet

 Download 
Filename  md5.pet 
Filesize  19 KB 
Downloaded  815 Time(s) 
sha1.pet
Description 
pet

 Download 
Filename  sha1.pet 
Filesize  21.75 KB 
Downloaded  803 Time(s) 

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pa_mcclamrock


Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 657
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA

PostPosted: Sun 04 Jan 2009, 18:58    Post subject:  

My 2 cents' worth on cutting bloat for 4.2: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=36588&start=45

More generally, I would like it to be easier for users to uninstall anything that isn't strictly needed for the system to run. If I don't want, say, SeaMonkey, AbiWord, Geany, HomeBank, or Osmo, I would like to be able to get rid of them as easily as I can now get rid of packages I've installed. Might that be feasible for ordinary users who don't especially want to dabble in Puppy Unleashed (which is not quite as easy as uninstalling packages with PETget)?

David McClamrock

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