Puppy 4.2 Deep Thought Development

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WhoDo
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#31 Post by WhoDo »

pa_mcclamrock wrote:More generally, I would like it to be easier for users to uninstall anything that isn't strictly needed for the system to run. ...[snip]... Might that be feasible for ordinary users who don't especially want to dabble in Puppy Unleashed (which is not quite as easy as uninstalling packages with PETget)?
PetbeGone does it, but it only masks the packages until you actually remaster. That is because the pup_4xx.sfs file is read only. All PetbeGone does is add appropriate .wh files to the next level of the initrd. It also requires 0pkgs_db-4xx installed or it won't know which files to mask.

Hope that helps, David.
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ttuuxxx
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#32 Post by ttuuxxx »

An actual easier way would be like this.
when you say install Kompozer it makes a Uninstall file located in /root/.packages/kompozer-0.7.10.files
its basically a 17kb text file showing where everything was installed
yes 17kb, but compressed its 3077B so it would be very small on sfs
we could add say maybe 10 or 20 application files like abiword gxine etc then the user could uninstall the non-essentials via the puppy package manager. This does work when you remaster also, if you include /root/.packages/ during your remaster process you can uninstall applications you installed before the remaster, after you burn and boot your remastered cd.
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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WhoDo
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#33 Post by WhoDo »

ttuuxxx wrote:An actual easier way would be like this.
when you say install Kompozer it makes a Uninstall file located in /root/.packages/kompozer-0.7.10.files
its basically a 17kb text file showing where everything was installed
yes 17kb, but compressed its 3077B so it would be very small on sfs
we could add say maybe 10 or 20 application files like abiword gxine etc then the user could uninstall the non-essentials via the puppy package manager. This does work when you remaster also, if you include /root/.packages/ during your remaster process you can uninstall applications you installed before the remaster, after you burn and boot your remastered cd.
I don't think PetBeGone and 0pkgs-db are all that big either, so either way it would work. At the moment I'm trying to see how much I can bring the standard ISO down to while including conky, pwidgets and some icon themes. Due to problems with the 4.1.2 Unleashed package, I've resorted to building the first 4.2alpha from the 4.1.1 Unleashed core, so I'll have some manual edits to do first to get rid of the 4.1.1 bugs mentioned in Barry's blog. Then the building can proceed at full pace.

I'm pretty sure I can get the ISO in under 98Mb including the Deepthought eye candy and your icewm-1.2.36-mini version. I haven't seriously tried to reduce anything yet, so even 95Mb is easily possible.

Cheers
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ttuuxxx
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#34 Post by ttuuxxx »

Hmmmm

Don't forget to think about

Updated puppy package manager 20kb
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... h&id=13571

Parcellite 22kb vs Glipper, default enabled, even if you just have it enabled in startup for icewm :) That would make a very large % of us packagers happy :) Then it would only startup with icewm :)
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... h&id=13265

GTKHash 337.42 KB (would get more use than NoteCase)
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=32700

xarchiver 111kb +plugns if needed 88kb+283kb (i'll try to find a smaller 7zip bin)
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=37276

Small icewm+switch+newtheme 575kb
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... h&id=13759

heck of a list, boy did I ever put some effort in this release, All that and it adds up to like 1MB lol plus the addons. Well hope you use most of it :) ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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WhoDo
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#35 Post by WhoDo »

ttuuxxx wrote:Updated puppy package manager 20kb
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... h&id=13571
Already in.
ttuuxxx wrote:Parcellite 22kb vs Glipper, default enabled, even if you just have it enabled in startup for icewm :) That would make a very large % of us packagers happy :) Then it would only startup with icewm :)
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... h&id=13265
Still under consideration
ttuuxxx wrote:GTKHash 337.42 KB (would get more use than NoteCase)
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=32700
NoteCase is already out
ttuuxxx wrote:xarchiver 111kb +plugns if needed 88kb+283kb (i'll try to find a smaller 7zip bin)
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=37276
Basic xarchiver is in to replace xarchive
ttuuxxx wrote:Small icewm+switch+newtheme 575kb
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... h&id=13759
Already in.
ttuuxxx wrote:heck of a list, boy did I ever put some effort in this release, All that and it adds up to like 1MB lol plus the addons. Well hope you use most of it
Don't stop there, mate. :P My pre-alphas are shaping up at 96Mb and I think you could help us to pare that down a whole lot more. I now have a working Puppy 4.2 ISO, but I'm not happy with its out-of-the-box setup - desktop icons all over the place, missing mime assignments, erk ....

Cheers
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ttuuxxx
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#36 Post by ttuuxxx »

So does that mean you want more tiny apps?

Xpad 45kb is a cute yellow sticky note application, Actually it saves trees, LOL
Anyways an ideal place for something like this to actually get used is on the taskbar for quick launch, how handy you can copy and paste etc. Tell ya the truth an even better place would be autostart the reason why its really tiny in memory size and when you first start it, it min to the taskbar, then you click on it.. Plus if you make say 50 sticky notes and close them, they stay recorded until you have send them to the trash to be deleted. Download below.

Transmission 434kb the bit torrent client, well we've all tried it and liked it :)
Pctorrent is confusing for newbeees, it doesn't download 2 things at once, much less control and options, over program.
Transmission well its always being updated still very small for what your getting http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... h&id=13788


If you want to kill a whooping 1.5MB muggins released a nice record your destop and make video application called "XvidCap" The thing that gets me about having a repo like we do without any descriptions. People might be looking for a program just like this one and never find it with such a strange name, sure it probably uses xvid but really wheres the "Record your desktop Live video" anyways, Its a great program 1.5MB is a bit tooo big. But could be a lot of fun for people to play with.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=24951

Ayttm chat client is really buggy on 4.1 , if you change you nick in the forum you get all the writing from the intro, around 2 lines worth, it doesn't show you the amount of people in the rooms in advanced when your looking at the room list, which also isn't easy to find. on the puppy 4.0 repo there is Xchat and its pet is 150kb smaller than Ayttm, The only problem with XChat is that it doesn't have a menu icon and that it needs a config file, When you open it, everything is blank and you have to manually select from a long list, Freenode, then you have to know or get a room list where your find a #puppylinux this should of be fixed before uploading to the repo, hmmmm, ok I'll do it now :) 1hr later and its fixed, I never really used Xchat so it was a learning thing, now this is how it works
-auto logins into freenode
-auto login to the #puppylinux
-The users nicks are Pupuser-402 etc
-The fonts were the wrong type and way toooo small, So I fixed that also.
-Fixed the missing menu icon
now it just works just as well as pidgin in the past, actually its quicker than pidgin for the room list with people numbers :) And its a 150KB Saving over Ayttm and about 50% smaller than pidgin, Thats what I like, Something smaller and better. :)
download below
ttuuxxx
Attachments
xpad-2.14-i386.pet
(44.86 KiB) Downloaded 1145 times
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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ttuuxxx
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#37 Post by ttuuxxx »

Oh some news on 'NoteCase' the owner/developer has released the final version of the freeware release for linux, he is not going to produce or support the free version anymore, He's decided only to support and continue the "Pro" paid version only, so I guess it isn't a bad time to pull the plug on Notecase. :wink:
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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HairyWill
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#38 Post by HairyWill »

xpad looks interesting,
jwm users may find the following group declaration useful

Code: Select all

<Group>
<Class>xpad</Class>
<Name>xpad</Name>
<Option>nolist</Option>
<Option>notitle</Option>
</Group>
This will remove the title bar and stop the notes appearing on the taskbar. Paste it into /root/.jwm/.jwmrc-personal above the last line with the </JWM> closing tag. Then restart jwm.
Will
contribute: [url=http://www.puppylinux.org]community website[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/6c3nm6]screenshots[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/6j2gbz]puplets[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/57gykn]wiki[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/5dgr83]rss[/url]

bill
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Deep Thought 4.2

#39 Post by bill »

Not to hijack this thread away from Puppy 4.2 Deep Thought but I see where ttuuxxx made mention of muggins xvidcap 1.1.6 here :

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=24951

I have searched every way I can think of to have the program capture the audio as well to no avail.The video works splendidly but the audio goes begging.Maybe it is something as simple as a hardware or driver problem or maybe it just refuses to play well with 412.Must be way past my pay grade and apparently many others.

Now I return you viewing pleasure back to Puppy 4.2 Deep Thought. Wink cheers

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ttuuxxx
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#40 Post by ttuuxxx »

HairyWill wrote:xpad looks interesting,
jwm users may find the following group declaration useful

Code: Select all

<Group>
<Class>xpad</Class>
<Name>xpad</Name>
<Option>nolist</Option>
<Option>notitle</Option>
</Group>
This will remove the title bar and stop the notes appearing on the taskbar. Paste it into /root/.jwm/.jwmrc-personal above the last line with the </JWM> closing tag. Then restart jwm.
Boy Hairy you were quick with that:)
How do you feel about quick launch, the only one on jwm by default is show desktop, I usually put Pfind, Default-Browser, and I guess probably xpad now. Also in the past I used to also include a calculator
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

aragon
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#41 Post by aragon »

hi ttuuxxx,

don't we get to bar's with 4.2?

EDIT: don't we get two bar's with 4.2?

nice typo.


cheers
aragon

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Aitch
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#42 Post by Aitch »

don't we get two bar's with 4.2?
he he, one for programs the other for beer? :wink: :lol:

Nice going, ttuuxxx, you're a star

Did you get a chance to try any of those audio links, as a nice eq would go down well, [hint, grin]?

Aitch :)

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WhoDo
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#43 Post by WhoDo »

ttuuxxx wrote:So does that mean you want more tiny apps?
Well, the calibre of what you have here is great but that wasn't really what I meant. BTW, Xchat and Xpad are in.

What I would really like is for someone to troll through the standard inclusions and find things that can be compressed. I was so impressed with what you managed with Icewm and thought that surely that should be possible with other stuff too.

Of course, only do that if you want. I'm not trying to dictate what you contribute. I'm just giving you ideas that you may or may not want to act upon.

I'm still having trouble getting the desktop icons to show up in a newly built Puppy, too. I have no idea why. It's like the globicons and PuppyPin files are being mangled somehow. Any ideas?

Cheers, mate.
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#44 Post by ttuuxxx »

I did manage to compile the latest mtpaint with improvements that came out last week, Its around 32kb larger than the older one in the repo.
It has a nicer save as etc.
Plus remember all the updated text editors I compiled
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 435#263435
If you wanted to free up space you could save around 550kb and remove Geany and use the latest beaver. Maybe add the new Geany to repo? you could also remove leafpad since Beaver is quick and has more functions than leafpad. saving 80kb.
most of these updated package could/should go to the repo. Has anything like that been arranged with Barry?
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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#45 Post by ttuuxxx »

I have one more thing I would like to do, If you could get the latest 1.0 series of Seamonkey up and going as a pet, I could give it a bit of a work around. Please no alpha 2 versions. lets keep thing rock stable :wink:
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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DaveS
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#46 Post by DaveS »

Using Seamonkey 1.1.14 in 4.1.1 and it has NEVER crashed. Seems a very stable release.
Spup Frugal HD and USB
Root forever!

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ttuuxxx
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#47 Post by ttuuxxx »

DaveS wrote:Using Seamonkey 1.1.14 in 4.1.1 and it has NEVER crashed. Seems a very stable release.
I just want to make sure we're on the same page, meaning if i went and spent like 5hrs making Seamonkey more user friendly, then Whodo picks a different release number my efforts would be wasted.
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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zigbert
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#48 Post by zigbert »

WhoDo wrote:I'm still having trouble getting the desktop icons to show up in a newly built Puppy, too. I have no idea why. It's like the globicons and PuppyPin files are being mangled somehow. Any ideas?
Remember that the DeepThought-jwm-tray package contains a fresh globicons file (maybe too fresh :) ). It does NOT include the info of original icons on desktop, only the links inside /root/my-applications/bin/. You can easily solve this by adding desktop icons from this directory rather than elsewhere. This is the source of the icon2desk function (left tray - 'add icon')


Sigmund

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pa_mcclamrock
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#49 Post by pa_mcclamrock »

ttuuxxx wrote:when you say install Kompozer it makes a Uninstall file located in /root/.packages/kompozer-0.7.10.files
its basically a 17kb text file showing where everything was installed
yes 17kb, but compressed its 3077B so it would be very small on sfs
we could add say maybe 10 or 20 application files like abiword gxine etc then the user could uninstall the non-essentials via the puppy package manager. This does work when you remaster also, if you include /root/.packages/ during your remaster process you can uninstall applications you installed before the remaster, after you burn and boot your remastered cd.
I'm not seeing how it would work to actually uninstall packages that are in the read-only main file rather than in pup_save--but this does give me an idea, and it seems like a pretty simple one (to me, at least).

(1) Include files in /root/.packages/ for all packages that users should be able to uninstall when they begin the remastering process.

(2) As the first step in the remastering process, show users a list of packages they might not want, with brief explanations of what's in the packages and what other packages need them, and allow users to uninstall the ones they don't want.

(3) Include /root/.packages in /tmp/root by default during remastering.

Looking at a modified copy of packages.txt from Puppy 4.1.1 Unleashed, I would suggest that file lists for at least the following packages (if they're going to be in Puppy 4.2) should be included in /root/packages/. (I put "OFF" before the package names for ease of identification of these packages in my modified file, although they would be "on" by default in the actual distro.) I've omitted (I hope) all packages that I've already read are not going to be in 4.2.

OFF "abiword-2.6.3" "abiword 2.6.3: wordprocessor" on "Document +fribidi,+gtk+,+goffice,+wv,+enchant 7556K" \
OFF "abiword-dictionary-en-2.6.3" "abiword-dictionary-en 2.6.3: " on "Document +abiword 2472K" \
OFF "abiword-plugins-2.6.3" "abiword-plugins 2.6.3: " on "Document +abiword 2220K" \
OFF "aiksaurus-1.2.1" "aiksaurus 1.2.1: thesaurus used by abiword" on "Document 712K" \
OFF "ayttm-0.5.0-81" "ayttm 0.5.0-81: multiprotocol chat client" on "Internet +jasper,+gtk+ 2180K" \
OFF "calcoo-1.3.18" "calcoo 1.3.18: scientific calculator" on "Calculate +gtk+ 112K" \
OFF "cdp-0.33.13" "cdp 0.33.13: Console CD audio player" on "BuildingBlock 72K" \
OFF "cdparanoia-III-alpha9.8" "cdparanoia III-alpha9.8: CDDA extraction tool (aka ripper)" on "BuildingBlock 112K" \
OFF "cgtkcalc-2.1.9" "cgtkcalc 2.1.9: Complex number calculator" on "Calculate +gtk+ 112K" \
OFF "chmsee-1.0.0-1" "chmsee 1.0.0-1: Microsoft CHM help viewer" on "Document +chmlib,+seamonkey 228K" \
OFF "ctorrent-dnh3.3" "ctorrent dnh3.3: torrent client" on "BuildingBlock +openssl 180K" \
OFF "didiwiki-0.5-5.1-pup2" "didiwiki 0.5-5.1-pup2: Personal wiki with HTTP server" on "Personal 80K" \
OFF "dpkg-deb-1.10.18" "dpg-deb 1.10.18: debian .deb package create/extract" on "BuildingBlock 136K" \
OFF "enchant-1.3.0-1" "enchant 1.3.0-1: needed by abiword 2.6.x" on "BuildingBlock 116K" \
OFF "flashplayer-9.0.48.0" "flashplayer 9.0.48.0: Adobe Flash Player for Mozilla" on "Internet 6896K" \
OFF "geany-0.12" "geany 0.12: superb text editor" on "Document +gtk+ 1740K" \
OFF "gnumeric-1.8.2" "gnumeric 1.8.2: spreadsheet editor" on "Calculate +goffice,+gtk+,+intltool,+libgsf,+libgnomeprint 7760K" \
OFF "goffice-0.6.3" "goffice 0.6.3: core code for abiword,gnumeric" on "BuildingBlock +libgnomeprint,+libgnomecanvas,+libgnomeprintui,+gail 2516K" \
OFF "gtkam-0.1.15-1" "gtkam 0.1.15-1: digital camera interface" on "Multimedia +libexif,+libexif-gtk,+libgphoto2,+libtool 268K" \
OFF "gtkmoz-1.0.8-1" "gtkmoz 1.0.8-1: light browser, based on seamonkey" on "Internet +seamonkey 96K" \
OFF "gtk_theme_citrus_cut-1.2" "gtk_theme_citrus_cut 1.2: gtk orangy theme" on "Desktop +gtk+ 172K" \
OFF "gwhere-0.2.3-1" "gwhere 0.2.3-1: disk cataloger" on "Filesystem +gtk+ 688K" \
OFF "gxine-0.5.9" "gxine 0.5.9: audio/video player, compiled with xine 1.1.8" on "Multimedia +xine-lib,+gtk+,+mplayer_codecs_basic 576K" \
OFF "hiawatha-6.7" "hiawatha 6.7: web server" on "Utility 244K" \
OFF "homebank-3.8" "homebank 3.8: personal finances" on "Calculate +gtk+ 540K" \
OFF "inkscapelite-0.36.3" "inkscapelite 0.36.3: small vector editor" on "Graphic +gtk+ 2120K" \
OFF "jasper-1.900.1" "jasper 1.900.1: needed by ayttm for yahoo webcam" on "BuildingBlock 368K" \
OFF "lame-3.97" "lame 3.97: LAME Ain't an Mp3 Encoder" on "BuildingBlock +ncurses 676K" \
OFF "leafpad-0.8.12-gnomeprint" "leafpad 0.8.12-gnomeprint: small text editor, uses libgnomeprint" on "Document +gtk+,+libgnomeprintui,+libgnomeprintcanvas 116K" \
OFF "libexif-0.6.16" "libexif 0.6.16: needed by libgphoto2 and gtkam" on "BuildingBlock 165K" \
OFF "libgphoto2-2.4.2" "libgphoto2 2.4.2: digital camera library" on "BuildingBlock +libexif,+libusb 2520K" \
OFF "mp-3.3.13" "mp 3.3.13: console text editor" on "Document +ncurses 180K" \
OFF "mtpaint-3.21" "mtpaint 3.21: bitmap editor" on "Graphic +gtk+ 492K" \
OFF "mut2-1.3.2.1238" "mut2 1.3.2.1238: commandline drive info tool" on "BuildingBlock 138K" \
OFF "osmo-0.2.0" "osmo 0.2.0: personal organizer" on "Personal +gtk+ 650K" \
OFF "pburn-2.0.9-1" "pburn 2.0.9-1: burn cd/dvd" on "Multimedia +pfilesearch,+cdrkit,+dvd+rwtools,+gtkdialog3,+normalize,+vcdimager 304K" \
OFF "pcdripper-3.7" "pcdripper 3.7: Audio CD song ripper" on "Multimedia +xdialog,+gtkdialog3,+cdrkit 96K" \
OFF "pctorrent-1.4" "pctorrent 1.4: torrent client gui" on "Internet +ctorrent,+gtkdialog3 64K" \
OFF "pdvdrsab-0.1" "pdvdrsab 0.1: dvd rip,shrink,author,burn" on "Multimedia
OFF "pmusic-0.3.3" "pmusic 0.3.3: audio player" on "Multimedia +gtkdialog3,+ffmpeg 144K" \
OFF "pmusic_THEME_pmusic_original-2008.08.10" "pmusic_THEME_pmusic_original 2008.08.10: " on "Multimedia +pmusic 60K" \
OFF "pplog-1.1" "pplog 1.1: personal blog" on "Personal +hiawatha 144K" \
OFF "psip-0.12" "psip 0.12: voip and im client" on "Internet 1388K" \
OFF "pstopwatch-0.6" "pstopwatch 0.6: simple stop watch" on "Personal 76K" \
OFF "ptimer-0.1" "ptimer 0.1: gui for pstopwatch" on "Personal +pstopwatch,+gtkdialog3 48K" \
OFF "puppy-podcast-grabber-1.1" "puppy-podcast-grabber 1.1: " on "Internet 80K" \
OFF "pwireless-0.8.3" "pwireless 0.8.3: wireless scanner" on "Network +gtkdialog3,+wireless-tools 56K" \
OFF "ripoff-0.8.3" "ripoff 0.8.3: cd song ripper" on "Multimedia +gtk+,+libcddb,+libcdio,+lame,+libogg,+libvorbis,+libtool 180K" \
OFF "rubix-1.03" "rubix 1.03: Game" on "Fun 72K" \
OFF "samba_client-3.0.26" "samba_client 3.0.26: SMB client utilities" on "BuildingBlock 3408K" \
OFF "sane-backends-1.0.19" "sane-backends 1.0.19: scanner library and daemon" on "BuildingBlock +libusb,+libgphoto2 7056K" \
OFF "seamonkey-1.1.11-1" "seamonkey 1.1.11-1: web browser suite" on "Internet +gtk+ 36080K" \
OFF "tile-20000117" "tile 20000117: very basic slider game" on "Fun +gtk+ 9K" \
OFF "vamps-0.99.2" "vamps 0.99.2: used by dvd ripping tools" on "BuildingBlock +libdvdread 144K" \
OFF "vobcopy-1.1.1" "vobcopy 1.1.1: used for dvd ripping" on "BuildngBlock +libdvdread 48K" \
OFF "wireless-tools-29" "wireless-tools 29: Configuration tools for Linux wireless networking" on "BuildingBlock 200K" \
OFF "wv-1.2.4" "wv 1.2.4: needed by abiword 2.6.x" on "BuildingBlock 336K" \
OFF "xarchive-0.2.8-6" "xarchive 0.2.8-6: archiver frontend" on "Utility +gtk+ 200K" \
OFF "xsane-0.994-patched2" "xsane 0.994-patched2: sane scanner gui" on "Multimedia +sane-backends,+gtk+ 804K" \
OFF "xsoldier-1.4" "xsoldier 1.4: space war arcade game" on "Fun 792K" \

This is not necessarily a complete list, but it should give you the basic idea--which is to make the remastering process more flexible, and the resulting .isos potentially even smaller than is now feasible without going to Puppy Unleashed.

David McClamrock
It's stupid to use inferior software for ideological reasons.
--Linus Torvalds

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WhoDo
Posts: 4428
Joined: Wed 12 Jul 2006, 01:58
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

#50 Post by WhoDo »

ttuuxxx wrote:
DaveS wrote:Using Seamonkey 1.1.14 in 4.1.1 and it has NEVER crashed. Seems a very stable release.
I just want to make sure we're on the same page, meaning if i went and spent like 5hrs making Seamonkey more user friendly, then Whodo picks a different release number my efforts would be wasted.
Not wasted on Seamonkey-1.1.14, Jeff. I'm intending to use that as the main browser, email and html editor package. I've been using it since it was released and it runs without a single glitch. Never seen the Insert key issue with it either.

I plan on including Monkey Menus add-on for flexibility and Seafox as the default theme for familiarity, although Deepthought Seamonkey looks good too. Have a play and see what you can do with it as a package if you like.

Cheers
[i]Actions speak louder than words ... and they usually work when words don't![/i]
SIP:whodo@proxy01.sipphone.com; whodo@realsip.com

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