Puppy 4.2 Deep Thought Development

[ttuuxxx]

Is there a place to find this information without having to read 1000 posts? e.g. What apps are in, what WM will be used, What are the major changes, what is the dev language of choice, what is the target date (if any).

http://www.puppylinux.org/wiki/archives ... -wish-list

hey lobster that wiki has a link to a sha1sum that is 3.5 times the size of this one,
ttuuxxx

[ttuuxxx]

I did it finally, Compiled the latest FireFox or shall I say FirePuP
She's running fast
now to test it before I start the hard work of transforming/optimizing it

Next will be Seamonkey

ttuuxxx

[WhoDo]

Actually I haven't been doing anything Puppy-wise. I started looking at the forum again, so I may need to get up to speed on the plans and direction. (I Guess this is not the thread).

I know that you've been keeping in touch through Barry's blog, so I hoped you wouldn't mind me including you in the list for the first official Puppy not directed personally by Barry.

Is there a place to find this information without having to read 1000 posts? e.g. What apps are in, what WM will be used, What are the major changes, what is the dev language of choice, what is the target date (if any).

See Lobster's post for a link to the Developer page on the wiki.

Basically 4.2 Deepthought is about polishing Puppy and adding usability features. The default wm is still JWM, but ttuuxxx has done an excellent job of bringing Icewm in at around 500kb so our users will definitely have the choice.

If you wanted to spend some time on xdg or anything else then your contribution would be most welcome. One of our current regulars is working on turning xdg menu's look-and-feel into something a little more Vista-like, or KDE4-like if you'd prefer.

The package list will be much the same as for 4.1.2, except that there will be only 1 calculator, no Notecase, Gpicview instead of Fotoxx, Seamonkey-1.1.14 will replace 1.1.11 (if ttuuxxx succeeds in a special compile for Puppy), several existing programs will be updated to the most recent versions, etc. The biggest single change will be Zigberts Pwidgets, a customisation of conky and xclock that allows users to add and remove widgets using a GUI interface.

We will also be working on making the interface to all apps as intuitive as possible, and several people are offering localization options. I'd like to see the standard .desktop files localized as much as possible, because that will cost us almost nothing in size. Target is 96Mb at this stage.

The two main factors have been lack of time and that I haven't had an itch to scratch. (Puppy just works, for me). Having said that there are a couple of areas that may require some work.
Puppy Install: Improve the UI and process
Package installation: I remember that there was a "team" working on improving it but I lost track of it
Adding some useful task bar applets: Wireless connectivity, Quick Launcher (like Gnome Do)
Improve the UI for the "Setup" tools.

These are all things that need attention. Look in particular at ttuuxxx's modified Package Manager for example.

Pizzasgood is also working on creating a CVS for packages, in addition to the one cb88 created for Puppy source on Sourceforge, and simplifying and cleaning up the Isolinux boot.

There are some timing issues in taskbar applets under Icewm. These are inherent somewhere in the Icewm source, and are not the result of ttuuxxx's pruning.

HairyWill has created a Rox-right-clicks program that matches mime types so that right clicking on a file will give appropriate options to start or edit the file.

MU has created a GUI .desktop file editor so almost anyone can create a new menu entry for a program without using the CLI.

CUPS is still problematic on many machines.

I may be getting too late back into the game but even if it's not for this release, knowing the direction of Puppy may help me decide how to contribute.

It's never too late for you, rarsa. We don't have a fixed release date for Puppy 4.2 Deepthought. I had planned to have the first alpha out before Christmas, but problems with Unleashed-4.1.2 and then my development machine prevented that. I'm now aiming for January 25th for the alpha.

I have built a couple of pre-alpha's and I'm still having problems setting the desktop for the LiveCD. Zigbert's programs may have something to do with that but I haven't had time to check it out yet. Puppy 4.1.2 seems stable enough that there really is no hurry to release yet. Barry is working on woof - Debian compatible Puppy - and ttuuxxx has the next edition of Slackware-compatible Puppy on simmer.

I'm glad there is time, as we all seem to have much to do. I'm really glad you're considering rejoining the effort.

Cheers, mate.

[WhoDo]

@WhoDo: Okay, I just did it as simply as I could for now - USB installs will have the exact same screen that LiveCD users get, 5-second timeout and all. The isolinux.cfg/syslinux.cfg/extlinux.conf file is now defined at /usr/lib/syslinux/files/syslinux.cfg, minus the final line which is added by the puppyinstaller script or the createpuppy script. That line is the only one that needs to change (to have pmedia=cd, pmedia=usbflash, etc.) based on how you install Puppy, so I had to leave it out and let those scripts handle it. Also defined in the same location is the boot.msg file, which is what holds the text that you see in the boot screen.

In an Unleashed setup, those files would go into the 0rootfs_skeleton package, and the createpuppy script will now look in rootfs-complete/usr/lib/syslinux/files/ for them. Any modifications should be made within the files in 0rootfs_skeleton-XXX/usr/lib/syslinux/files/ rather than the isolinux-builds/ directory.

Three files changed: /usr/sbin/puppyinstaller, and the createpuppy and createpuppy_unipup scripts.

The package contains a README explaining things in a little more detail, and a step-by-step for installing it (not that it's hard). It also has patches in case you've modified those files already for whatever reason.

Thanks, Jeremy. I'll have a good long look at what you've put together as soon as I get the chance. Did you want to have a look at an all-singing, all-dancing version for both the LiveCD and USB boots?

[WhoDo]

I did it finally, Compiled the latest FireFox or shall I say FirePuP
She's running fast
now to test it before I start the hard work of transforming/optimizing it

Next will be Seamonkey

Cool! Whichever one becomes the default in Deepthought, the other will be available directly from PETget. I must talk to Barry about getting upload access to the Puppy repo on ibiblio, too.

[Aitch]

WhoDo

Catdude made a nice gui for the grub/boot process a while back, though I've not seen it mentioned?
Size considerations allowing, can it be included?

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... c438ec9eeb

Also there was mention [Lobster] of including pupweb desktop - is this included?

http://pupweb.org/desktop/

Thanks for including localisations - still hope to see devs working towards full internationalisation, if possible, even if as SFS add-ons

Interesting discussion here, too

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... fe08870607

Keep up the good work & thanks ttuuxxx

Aitch

[WhoDo]

Catdude made a nice gui for the grub/boot process a while back, though I've not seen it mentioned?
Size considerations allowing, can it be included?

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... c438ec9eeb

Absolutely! I must have missed this one earlier! I fell in love with gfx-boot in PCLinuxOS and used that to boot my Puppy's for quite some time. I never got around to building a .pet for it though. Glad CatDude did!

Also there was mention [Lobster] of including pupweb desktop - is this included?

http://pupweb.org/desktop/

Yes.

Thanks for including localisations - still hope to see devs working towards full internationalisation, if possible, even if as SFS add-on

Just for the record, ANYONE can work on localising the .desktop files for our standard applications. It isn't that hard. All you need is a template to work from and there are enough of those in /usr/share/applications to do the job.

Full internationalisation is another matter. We have Vietnamese puppy, Japanese puppy, French puppy, Russian puppy and German puppy. It shouldn't be too hard for someone with the experience on one of those Puppy's to build an SFS of the International components for their language. As an English-only speaker, it can't be me.

[ttuuxxx]

WhoDo You might of missed also on page 6 I was talking about clearlooks theme engine and posted a very small pet of 51kb including 4 themes and plus one additional 1kb theme, lol

also when I was talking about the new Apng theme wow does it ever look nice on the new firefox 3.1b2 I compiled
this image located at http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3549 ... layfe9.png
if you view it in seamonkey its still, but with the new apng patch on png added with the new Firefox 3, the water ripples non-stop, very nice indeed, imagine what we are missing and don't even know about it when we load up websites with png images and they are currently still when they actually have motion.
ttuuxxx

[ttuuxxx]

hey if you look at this one in seamonkey, while the page loads you can see frame by frame as it downloads, but it doesn't move after, but in ff3 it does move very smoothly.
http://animatedpng.com/index.php/sample ... e/#more-26
ttuuxxx

[ttuuxxx]

here's the new png thats patched with Apng Animated png, The extra cost is 40kb the extra gain Priceless
2 package below one for the default puppy and one for the devx compiler, if you have a version of firefox 3 install the the main package below and go to one of the images I posted above and compare seamonkey and FF3 with the new Apng, the old png in puppy can be removed and this one will replace it just fine.
enjoy
ttuuxxx

[zigbert]

I have built a couple of pre-alpha's and I'm still having problems setting the desktop for the LiveCD. Zigbert's programs may have something to do with that

As I have experienced, there are 4 troublesome points in upgrading to the DeepThought desktop.

1.)
Earlier versions of Pwidgets intended to include 'fixwidgets &' in /root/.xinitrc. The new version includes a fixwidgets script in /root/Startup

2.)
As already mentioned, the programs on the desktop looses their icons. The globicons file has been replaced as all menu apps have their symlink in /root/my-applications/bin/. This directory is used by the left tray - 'Add icon'. The solution is to either make a new PuppyPin or include the old globicon file into the newer. I guess Puppy includes the original globicons file during installation, which will interfere with this....

3.)
You will loose the jwm tray if changing jwm-theme. If xload is not installed, /usr/local/jwmconfig2/theme_switcher (I see I have misnamed this file in the 'Puppy 4.2 - Desktop and artwork' post.) will blank /root/.jwmtray. Solution is to remove/hash line pointing to these. This fix should be included in the jwmconfig package (not in the DeepThought-jwm-tray as now).

Code: Select all

 GetLineIndex "blinkydelayed"
 linenumber=$?
 echo $linenumber

# GetLineIndex "xload -nolabel"
# linenumber2=$?
# echo $linenumber2

 lineNumber=`expr $linenumber`
# lineNumber2=`expr $linenumber2`

 blinkyline="         blinkydelayed -bg "$BackgroundColor""
# xloadline="         xload -nolabel -fg red -hl white -bg "$IndentedBackgroundColor""

# sed -e "$lineNumber"i"$blinkyline" -e "$lineNumber"d -e "$lineNumber2"i"$xloadline" -e "$lineNumber2"d $TrayFileBak > $TrayFile
 sed -e "$lineNumber"i"$blinkyline" -e "$lineNumber"d $TrayFileBak > $TrayFile
 #end John Doe's code.
 ########

4.)
The updated Wallpaper script by HairyWill is needed to update widgets on desktop after setting new background.


Is it more ????
Sigmund

[Aitch]

ttuuxxx

Imaging

support request for Irfanview/Apng

http://en.irfanview-forum.de/vb/project.php?issueid=19

Still waiting for a full port to linux of Irfanview - don't like wine/windoze apps

For windoze/wine people who use Irfanview - Save for web/Compress to size

http://luci.criosweb.ro/riot/dll-version/

Interesting alternatives here

http://www.increa.com/computers/irfanvi ... atives.htm

Zigbert, can you explain the WM/Pwidgets problem a bit more?

It appears if someone changes WM it fails?

What about EZpup?

Is it not possible there is a common injection point for Pwidgets all WMs?

Aitch

[01micko]

Aitch,
The problem seems to be that all WMs react differently to different things. When I was building the slideshow widget I had totally different reactions in JWM as is to Icewm. I also did some testing with Xfce and KDE. All with different results.

I did extensive testing with Icewm and Pwidgets when zigbert first released Pwidgets. As a result of plenty of people testing we seem to have resolved most problems. But there is always going to be some bug for someone. Also wallpapers were a problem, helped soved by J-Bob and ttuuxxx. I've also been testing Pwidgets in woof which runs Xfce. So far so good.

Are you having problems with Pwidgets or is it a generic question?

[ttuuxxx]

Well guys I've been testing firefox 3.1B2 <-- second beta for the up and coming 3.1 and well, even with the same addons it wasn't as fast as FirePup, it FirePups fastest time for this forum was 2.36sec from start to finish with all junk removed, FF3 was 2.76sec and went higher. Then it did work with fullscreen youtube:) but one the other hand I made it crash around 20 times, I think the 3.1B2 is a buggy release, not stable enough even with the latest flash.
next I'll try 3.05 latest main release and if that doesn't work then 2.20 and then seamonkey.
ttuuxxx

[ttuuxxx]

Ok I have 3.05 compiled, this is the latest stable version, its 1mb smaller and hasn't crashed yet, I'll give it a good workout in the morning 8.5mb pet, still nice and small

ttuuxxx

[Pizzasgood]

Did you want to have a look at an all-singing, all-dancing version for both the LiveCD and USB boots?

In the works. One of the problems with Puppy in this respect is that certain scripts copy specific files, so if we add new ones or change the names, it will omit them. So I fixed that this afternoon.

I attached the updated package. This is the same as the last one, except it also includes two new modified files:
/usr/sbin/remasterpup2
/etc/rc.d/functions4puppy

Those are the only changes, so if you already added the files from the previous package, just copy in these two.

That should be it as far as script changes go (assuming no bugs). From here out, to change the isolinux screen(s), all that is needed is to change the files in /usr/lib/syslinux/files. So, when I put together the updated screens, I'll upload them in their own package, as just files to be dropped into /usr/lib/syslinux/files.

[WhoDo]

Is it more ????

I don't know yet, Sigmund. I wasn't complaining about your excellent application ... just alluding to the fact I hadn't had a chance yet to test your suggestions for fixing the missing icons problem.

This list of problems/fixes is VERY helpful, too. Thanks for that.

Cheers.

[Pizzasgood]

Okay, attached is a tarball with the files to add a small image and to move the long list of potentially "scary stuff" into a second screen, accessible by pressing the <F2> key. Extract it and will give you a files/ directory. Just replace the contents of the /usr/lib/syslinux/files/ directory in the Unleashed tree with the contents of this new one, and be sure to have added the two extra files from other package I posted today, or this won't carry over when people use the remaster script.

This is basically a template to show the more talented people how it works. I'm not so good at 16-color designs.

I attached some screenshots from qemu, so you can see what it looks like. The next best way I've found for testing this stuff is with a USB install, because then you can just change the files and reboot, rather than having to burn a CD. But qemu is even better.

How this works is there are four files: syslinux.cfg, boot.msg, help.msg, and logo.16.

The syslinux.cfg file is the one that defines how Puppy boots. It also specifies the the 'boot.msg' file is the default display, and that 'help.msg' is displayed when you press F2. It's also the file that defines the timeout (in tenths of a second).

The boot.msg file is the first screen you see when you boot Puppy. It is basically a text file with some funny-characters that do stuff like set the text color. It also has a line in it that displays the image logo.16.

If you press F2, it will switch to displaying the help.msg file. That one doesn't load an image. It's basically the old boot.msg file from Puppy 4.1.2, with a couple minor edits. From there, you can press F1 to go back to the first screen, but you don't really need to.

The colors in those files are defined by the 'SI'-looking symbols. The first letter after one of those is a hexidecimal digit (0-9,a-f) and defines the background color. The second letter is for the forground. Normally they set the normal colors you'd see in a 16-color terminal environment, but when an image has been loaded they'll get the colors from that image's pallet instead. So on the boot.msg screen, all text is some shade of blue. On the help.msg screen, there is no image, so they're normal.

The logo.16 file is the image. It can be created by taking a 16 color indexed .png that is no larger than 640x480 and running this command:
pngtopnm < image.png | ppmtolss16 > logo.16

The name 'logo.16' isn't set in stone. It's defined in the boot.msg file, after the 'CAN'-looking-symbol.

For more information, go to the syslinux webpage: http://syslinux.zytor.com/wiki/index.php/SYSLINUX

The old page more info than the wiki about what all the little symbols in the .msg files were, but it seems to have been removed. I found it on the wayback machine though:
http://web.archive.org/web/200708090517 ... om/faq.php


Note that I placed the Puppy version inside the boot.msg file, not in the logo.16 image. This way the image doesn't need to be modified when releasing a new version - simply open boot.msg with Geany and update the version number.

[rarsa]

I'm planning to modify the USB Installation to use syslinux instead of grub. It seems to be easier to install and wider compatibility for USB keys.

[Pizzasgood]

...but it already uses syslinux for USB installs. I just did one the other day to test the changes I made. Am I missing something?