Vista Start Menu

Message

Mr. Maxwell · #31 Post by **Mr. Maxwell** » Sat 10 Jan 2009, 04:09

So I don't have to mod some special part of the source? It is progressing very slowly but progress is progress.

WhoDo · #32 Post by **WhoDo** » Sat 10 Jan 2009, 04:51

Mr. Maxwell wrote:So I don't have to mod some special part of the source? It is progressing very slowly but progress is progress.

Not AFAIK. Only if Icewm prevents the second menu list and even then editing the source could break the xdg connection. Better to do it with the xdg templates if you can, IMHO. That way both Icewm and JWM will benefit from mods via xdg.

Mr. Maxwell · #33 Post by **Mr. Maxwell** » Sat 07 Mar 2009, 21:49

Well I tried but I would have to completely rewrite the Icewm menu system to get the start menu working (unless i'm missing something), not exactly how I want to spend the next 5 years of my life.

Anyway, after taking a quick peek at the xdg menus it looks like I might be able to get a double menu in Jwm but not in Icewm. If I can get the double menu then I could get very close to the vista style with some fancy layout and a little hacking. However, my Jwm is broken (there is no taskbar or start menu) so I would either need a test subject or a new Jwm installation to get anything working.

If the above does not work then I could always write a new program to act as the menu. I've been looking into the WxPython toolkit for GUI programing and it looks very promising with a lot of features. But the big plus is it a python wrapper for a C++ library. I could rewrite the python code into C++ when I'm done and get rid of one of the dependincies.

So, anybody have some input?

WhoDo · #34 Post by **WhoDo** » Sat 07 Mar 2009, 23:21

Mr. Maxwell wrote:However, my Jwm is broken (there is no taskbar or start menu) so I would either need a test subject or a new Jwm installation to get anything working.

Take a look at Patriot's JWM updates thread to see what he's doing in making JWM more accessible (and fancy with transparency etc). He has a Beta version you could download and install to give you a new JWM to work from. If that proves as good as I think it will, we may well revert to JWM only in future releases.

Mr. Maxwell wrote:...[snip]...
So, anybody have some input?

It's not worth spending 5 years to achieve. By then Vista will have been consigned to OS heaven (or hell) anyway!

I'd rather you expended your obvious expertise in building a better user access to underlying contols (a Control Panel or similar).

I'm surprised at your conclusions regarding Icewm, given that ttuuxxx has just built us a shutdown dialog that can be located right next to the main menu page without too much configuration. That may be a better way to go rather than trying to create a second-level menu. It only has to LOOK like its part of the menu, not actually BE part of it. To that end it might be worth exploring MU's work on borderless windows.

Cheers

Mr. Maxwell · #35 Post by **Mr. Maxwell** » Sun 08 Mar 2009, 00:10

What exactly did ttuuxxx do?

As far as borderless windows go, they are not hard to create but the real chalange is getting the window to close when it goes out of focus. (you click on another window)

As for the control panel type thing...

I would have no problems doing it assuming I got some help with the linux part, I could get some very nice GUI's up quickly.

Actually I could write all kinds of programs for Puppy, but, I would have to use Python. If my memory serves me right Python has a 20MB distribution, which might be unacaptable for some users.

Anyway, I could make whatever you needed but it would have to be in Python. (and I could do it quick)

What do you think?

WhoDo · #36 Post by **WhoDo** » Sun 08 Mar 2009, 02:02

Mr. Maxwell wrote:What exactly did ttuuxxx do?

He created a shutdown dialog for Puppy 4.2 Deep Thought that gives lots of alternatives like reboot, switch to another WM, restart X, etc.) I don't know what he used (gtkdialog3, tcl/tk, gnocl, ...), but it's just a window that opens when you click an open on the main menu. The trick is in making it open borderless and right next to the top level menu adjacent to the task bar.

Mr. Maxwell wrote:As far as borderless windows go, they are not hard to create but the real chalange is getting the window to close when it goes out of focus. (you click on another window)

I think that might be available as a general Rox option for handling focus? Not sure.

Mr. Maxwell wrote:As for the control panel type thing...

I would have no problems doing it assuming I got some help with the linux part, I could get some very nice GUI's up quickly. Actually I could write all kinds of programs for Puppy, but, I would have to use Python. If my memory serves me right Python has a 20MB distribution, which might be unacaptable for some users. Anyway, I could make whatever you needed but it would have to be in Python. (and I could do it quick)

What do you think?

I can't see Python ever being included due to its size. Barry was investigating some Python run-time interpreters (I think) - was Vala one of those? There is a thread dealing with PCP (Puppy Control Panel), so it's not like no-one is looking at it, but I thought you might be able to bring something to the table there, if you had a mind to.

Cheers.

Mr. Maxwell · #37 Post by **Mr. Maxwell** » Sun 08 Mar 2009, 03:16

Could you get a screenshot (or two) of what ttuuxxx made?

I've looked at something called Shed Skin before as it looks like a very promising Python to C++ converter. I'll look into it's support for the Tkinter toolkit, if the results come up good and my tests turn out good we might be in business.

I'll let you know as soon as I find out and then get working on whatever you think puppy needs ASAP.

WhoDo · #38 Post by **WhoDo** » Sun 08 Mar 2009, 03:25

Mr. Maxwell wrote:Could you get a screenshot (or two) of what ttuuxxx made?

Sure. Here you go, straight from Puppy-4.2RC2. Try and imagine it borderless ...

Mr. Maxwell wrote:I've looked at something called Shed Skin before as it looks like a very promising Python to C++ converter. I'll look into it's support for the Tkinter toolkit, if the results come up good and my tests turn out good we might be in business. I'll let you know as soon as I find out and then get working on whatever you think puppy needs ASAP.

Sounds promising. Anything packaged as a C++ binary will run in Puppy, and probably run faster than most other things, too!

Mr. Maxwell · #39 Post by **Mr. Maxwell** » Sun 08 Mar 2009, 18:27

I've been messing around with shed skin a little bit and it is working very well. The problem is the GUI toolkit, it's hard to find a decend lightweight one. I'll look into WxWidgets and see how big the runtime library is, I'm guessing it is very large however. So, what kind of GUI options does puppy come with? I'll look into a few things but do you have any recomended librarys?

EDIT:

If you go to this page and scroll to the bottom it shows how to run Gtkdialog from a C program. If it has the ability to create decent GUIs then we have a winner, but since the name is Gtkdialog I might have to find a differnet built-in puppy library for the more complecated stuff.

There's some Gtkdialog screenshots here.

WhoDo · #40 Post by **WhoDo** » Sun 08 Mar 2009, 22:14

Mr. Maxwell wrote:I've been messing around with shed skin a little bit and it is working very well. The problem is the GUI toolkit, it's hard to find a decend lightweight one. I'll look into WxWidgets and see how big the runtime library is, I'm guessing it is very large however. So, what kind of GUI options does puppy come with? I'll look into a few things but do you have any recomended librarys?

Gtkdialog uses Glade libraries, both of which are already in Puppy-4.2, so you could use the Glade interface designer from the Puppy-4 dotpet repository at ibiblio.org to get what you need.

Mr. Maxwell · #41 Post by **Mr. Maxwell** » Sun 08 Mar 2009, 22:42

The problem with Glade is my puppy screen res is 800x600, aka crap and I get a 200x400 pixel window to work on the interface so it's almost inposible to get anything done plus the taskbar covers the bottom of the window and a lot of important features.

So, one last stab into the darkness, I am trying Tcl/Tk as I can use the same GUI toolkit as in Python but I cant execute the programs. Where is the wish program located in Puppy 4.1.2? I have #!/usr/local/bin/wish and as far as I can tell it does not work.

WhoDo · #42 Post by **WhoDo** » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 04:47

Mr. Maxwell wrote:Where is the wish program located in Puppy 4.1.2? I have #!/usr/local/bin/wish and as far as I can tell it does not work.

Puppy 4.1.2 didn't have the supporting tcl/tk libraries for that. You'd need to add them from the petpackages-4 section of the ibiblio.org repository (Install from PETget IOW).

Alternatively you could try doing it all in Puppy 4.2 which has tcl/tk libraries and gnocl preinstalled.

Mr. Maxwell · #43 Post by **Mr. Maxwell** » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 00:30

I must have installed it with some external package because when I type "wish" in the prompt It starts up the Tcl interperater which works just fine (including makeing tk windows).

So, this leaves me with one question, what would you sugest be the best launguage to do this with?

Thaks for all your help so far, it's been a lifesaver!

WhoDo · #44 Post by **WhoDo** » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 06:02

Mr. Maxwell wrote:So, this leaves me with one question, what would you sugest be the best launguage to do this with?

Thaks for all your help so far, it's been a lifesaver!

You're welcome. What's "best" really depends on who you ask. Mark Ulrich (MU) uses Gtkbasic and wxBasic. Forum owner John Murga would suggest murgaLua (underpins a lot of applications in Damn Small Linux). Jack Tronkel would suggest C++. I think your best choice would be to talk to David McClamrock (pa_mcclamrock) via PM and ask him what he thinks about gnocl so far. I know he had reservations early on, but I think he's put those to rest.

murgaLua would require a 312kb runtime module (a bit lighter than Python), but we've been looking for a killer program to force its inclusion and open up the options for other programmers. The gnocl runtime is already in 4.2, as is Gtkbasic. My background is VAXBasic and C, so I would probably go for Gtkbasic, but I gave up coding a long time ago and what I think may not be your best option. PM David and you'd have a colleague to bounce ideas off and share code with. Just my $0.02c worth.

Mr. Maxwell · #45 Post by **Mr. Maxwell** » Thu 12 Mar 2009, 02:46

I'll ask him. Thanks again.

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Vista Start Menu