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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Next Puppy Development » 4.x
Puppy 4.2 Alpha3 Seamonkey Bugs & Fixes
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straypup

Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb 2009, 18:49    Post subject:  8187B Dongle  

Sorry for the delay. I tend to wonder in my old age.
Thanks WhoDo for pointing the way. I knew I had seen it befor and even used it. This time though, I have missed something because it didn't work, Im using a1 to write this.
tempestuous, I finally figured out hoiw to acess the needed info (I am a total loss-everything I know about computers I have picked up either on line or by making mistakes-including how to use command line. The requested info is as follows(htis is from my a1)
Vendor=Obda ProductID=8189 Rev=2.00 Manufacturer=Realtek Product=RTL8187B WLAN Adapter. Hope it helps
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 1818
Location: South Australia

PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb 2009, 18:59    Post subject:  

Hi WhoDo,

I would like to see notecase included as that's where I keep all of my Tips/Help. When I see a useful tip in the forums I usually save it in notecase. It allows you to organise data logically and the search facility is pretty good. It also allows URL links to be saved. What is also good is you can send the ?.ncd file to someone else and they have a copy of all your data. It makes a pretty good eBook. It would be a shame to see it disappear.

I noticed on their web page the free version is no longer being supported but it works just fine the way it is.

Thanks Smokey

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zigbert


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 5726
Location: Valåmoen, Norway

PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb 2009, 19:07    Post subject:  

Icewm / Jwm

Warren is doing a great job as the coordinator of the next Puppy. I can be totally against his choice of putting in Icewm, but I will surely respect his decision. But I still feel to give tasmod (and others) another view.

- Jwm is below 100 kb including all configuration script (guis) and extensions.
- Icewm is 6 times bigger and does the same job as Jwm.
- As far as I know we do not have the same configuration guis for Icewm as Jwm.
- We have now a Utility tray with editor for Jwm, but not for Icewm.
- There have been some minor (in my opinion) issues with Jwm, like the fullscreen issue with Gxine. It means you'll have to maximize the gxine window before getting fullscreen.
- Barry has mentioned on the blog that the community maybe should maintain Jwm. He has tried several window managers during the woof development, but last I checked he was back on Jwm.
- HairyWill has uploaded Jwm sourcecode to sourceforge and included the first hack (gxine fullscreen). It COULD be a start of something really good.
- Icewm has better theme support, but clever hands on this forum has made Jwm look ok (again my opinion). What has been mention is the flat tray and the lack of nice buttons in the window heading. Both are seen these days in adobe-suite-CS4 and ubuntu 9.04. It seems that there are a retro attitude in the many design departments at the moment. But hopefully someone in our kennel will improve the sourcecode, and add gradients to tray and png-buttons to heading.
- I thought Puppys intention is to use the tiniest working alternative.
- I'm NOT against Icewm, but think it fits better as an installable package.

BUT dearest friends. Whatever decision is made for Puppy 4.2, we will have a brilliant OS. It will be something much better than Puppy 4.12. Many of us doubted that we could improve it as much as WhoDo shows us at the moment.

Thank you WhoDo !!!


Best wishes
Sigmund

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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb 2009, 19:20    Post subject:  

smokey01 wrote:
Hi WhoDo,

I would like to see notecase included as that's where I keep all of my Tips/Help. When I see a useful tip in the forums I usually save it in notecase. It allows you to organise data logically and the search facility is pretty good. It also allows URL links to be saved. What is also good is you can send the ?.ncd file to someone else and they have a copy of all your data. It makes a pretty good eBook. It would be a shame to see it disappear.

I noticed on their web page the free version is no longer being supported but it works just fine the way it is.

Thanks Smokey
I made the same remark a couple of hours ago.
So I second (or you second me) this request.
I feel fine with the version which was in 4.1.2 as well.
In Windows I have the 1.9.3 for the moment.

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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb 2009, 19:26    Post subject: Little problem going from a2 to a3  

I use the Lin'N'Win method.
When I did create all what was needed (new puppy420a3 directory and an entry in menu.lst) I started the a3.
But I saw no sign of SeaMonkey.
Then I realized that the pup_420.sfs in /dev/home was still the old one from the previous a2 install. I had to explicitly overwrite it with the new one.
This was not the case in the 4.x.x series. Every pup_xxx.sfs had its own version number.

Maybe confusing for newbees who go from a2 to a3.

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb 2009, 19:34    Post subject:  

Caneri wrote:
This is a bit older but it's what was used to do xdelta for some of the people.

Unfortunately this one fails the md5sum check and also won't unpack.

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aragon

Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 1698
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb 2009, 19:40    Post subject:  

hi whodo,

ok look at this, is the actual one, but completely untested...

hope it works

aragon
xdelta-3.0u.pet
Description 
pet

 Download 
Filename  xdelta-3.0u.pet 
Filesize  80.09 KB 
Downloaded  420 Time(s) 

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb 2009, 19:43    Post subject: Re: Little problem going from a2 to a3  

Béèm wrote:
Maybe confusing for newbees who go from a2 to a3.

I understand your point, my friend, but newbees are not the intended focus for alpha releases. These are strictly for the literati who understand what is required in a testing regimen. I abhor the practice of some of the majors of publicly releasing alphas and betas through Distrowatch for that same reason. It just doesn't make good sense. Wait for the Release Candidate stage to involve newbees in testing IMHO.

Sure newbees are welcome to test and help debug at any stage if they feel they'd like to and can accept the consequences of being at the bleeding edge, but there are good reasons why I don't want to change the version numbers to include alphas when building from Unleashed. It would add just another level of complexity and confusion to the build process for me. I'm struggling as it is! Razz

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb 2009, 19:50    Post subject:  

aragon wrote:
ok look at this, is the actual one, but completely untested...hope it works

Thanks aragon. Cool

@Béèm and smokey01 - notecase is 600kb+ and of considerably less interest and appeal than Icewm which is slightly smaller. That's the trade-off I'm dealing with at the moment. Notecase will still be in the official PETget repository, and I'll revisit its inclusion early in the beta phase when I know better where we stand with CUPS which will push us to the limit of our 100Mb self-imposed ceiling.

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb 2009, 20:04    Post subject:  

zigbert wrote:
I can be totally against his (Warren's) choice of putting in Icewm, but I will surely respect his decision.

What a boring world it would be if we all agreed about everything! Razz

zigbert wrote:
I thought Puppys intention is to use the tiniest working alternative.
- I'm NOT against Icewm, but think it fits better as an installable package.

Puppy always has been a compromise between function and size. If size were the overriding factor we would all use DSL - it now runs on JWM too!

Puppy has always tried to offer maximum possible functionality in minimum reasonable size and often that involves offering choices to the user base. That is why Icewm is in this release. It may not be in another release or it may eventually replace JWM; who knows. For now the choice is important IMHO.

zigbert wrote:
Whatever decision is made for Puppy 4.2, we will have a brilliant OS. It will be something much better than Puppy 4.12.

Life as a benevolent dictator can be tough at times. Laughing The rewards only come when most people finally recognise that the choices you made, whether they agreed with them or not, were made with the best interest of the whole community at heart. That's where the "benevolent" part kicks in.

I'm sure no Barry Kauler - far from it - but I do appreciate the wonderful gift he has given us, and continues to give through the creation of woof; an operating system that frees us from the greedy demands of the bloatware world while still giving us most of the functionality we crave! Cool

Your pwidgets are yet another step in the direction of immortality for Puppy, IMHO, Sigmund. As far as I'm concerned, agreement is overrated and often counterproductive. Collaboration and cooperation are not. How much fun would you have had with Pwidgets if you had to satisfy the whims of every potential user? Just a rhetorical question - I already know the answer, believe me! Razz

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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb 2009, 20:22    Post subject:  

WhoDo wrote:
It would add just another level of complexity and confusion to the build process for me. I'm struggling as it is! Razz
OK, I am a warned man now and change the way I used to do. Wink
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Caneri

Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 1580
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb 2009, 20:25    Post subject:  

@Warren,

There is no md5sum for this xdelta package..the other file is a howto from tombh...lol

Mine did install..hmmm..I still talk to Tom..I'll ask him if there's a solid xdelta package. On the other hand Pizzasgood and a few others used it as well...

I'll make a md5.txt file for it to see if there's a problem and post it here.

Eric
xdelta.tar.gz
Description 
gz

 Download 
Filename  xdelta.tar.gz 
Filesize  78.16 KB 
Downloaded  426 Time(s) 

Last edited by Caneri on Sat 07 Feb 2009, 20:32; edited 1 time in total
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pa_mcclamrock


Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 657
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA

PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb 2009, 20:27    Post subject:  

zigbert wrote:
- Jwm is below 100 kb including all configuration script (guis) and extensions.

- Icewm is 6 times bigger and does the same job as Jwm.


Except that JWM is ugly to mediocre-looking at best, and changing themes isn't quite as easy as possible; IceWM, with the right themes, is absolutely beautiful, and changing themes is as easy as possible. Looks aren't everything, or even the most important thing, but they're still very important for (1) people getting their first impression of Puppy, (2) many people who use Puppy a lot every day, and (3) probably a lot of other people too. You're complaining about a mere half a megabyte for built-in access to an almost endless abundance of great-looking desktop effects to please almost every taste. Small is beautiful, but even smaller isn't necessarily even more beautiful, and Puppy without IceWM built in would be much less beautiful.

Quote:
- As far as I know we do not have the same configuration guis for Icewm as Jwm.


Now that Puppy 4.2 is going to have Tcl/Tk and Gnocl, configuration GUIs with the preferred GTK+ 2.0 look will be pretty easy to produce. Let's hear about some window-manager features people want to configure through a GUI that they can't yet with IceWM.

Quote:
- Icewm has better theme support, but clever hands on this forum has made Jwm look ok (again my opinion).


I agree. It looks OK (at best), but that's about the best you can say. IceWM can look superb.

Quote:
- I thought Puppys intention is to use the tiniest working alternative.


If that were uniformly true, AbiWord would have been dumped in favor of TextMaker 2002, which (at least in my experience) actually works better than AbiWord. Smile More to the point, "working" doesn't mean quite the same thing for a window manager as it does for, say, a compiler, a script interpreter, or even an e-mail manager, an editor, or a console. People don't demand that rxvt must be good-looking, but good looks are a large part of what makes a window manager "work" really well in the eyes (literally) of users.

Quote:
BUT dearest friends. Whatever decision is made for Puppy 4.2, we will have a brilliant OS.


Hear, hear!

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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb 2009, 20:30    Post subject:  

WhoDo wrote:
aragon wrote:
ok look at this, is the actual one, but completely untested...hope it works

Thanks aragon. Cool

@Béèm and smokey01 - notecase is 600kb+ and of considerably less interest and appeal than Icewm which is slightly smaller. That's the trade-off I'm dealing with at the moment. Notecase will still be in the official PETget repository, and I'll revisit its inclusion early in the beta phase when I know better where we stand with CUPS which will push us to the limit of our 100Mb self-imposed ceiling.
I tend to agree with Zigbert. JWM is more 'sexier' now and I find that icewm doesn't have much more to offer. I would rather choose for Gnome then.
I prefer to have nice applications but it's your call and let's see what the future brings. Thanks for the explication anyway.

Let me end with a word of praise.
Although I only spend a couple of hours, I find considerable increase in performance for pmount and rox.

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb 2009, 20:40    Post subject:  

Caneri wrote:
Mine did install..hmmm..I still talk to Tom..I'll ask him if there's a solid xdelta package. On the other hand Pizzasgood and a few others used it as well...

Could easily have been a bad download. I haven't had time to check. In the meantime aragon has uploaded v3.0u in .pet format so I've added that to the tree. We'll see how it builds. Thanks eric. Cool

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