Puppy 4.2 Alpha3 Seamonkey Bugs & Fixes

[ttuuxxx]

ttuuxx,
Does it check the underlying filesystem to see if it supports files up to the size you are trying to resize to?
Which filesystems have you tested on?
Which package in the original unleashed build tree supplies this function?

How many people do you think will benefit from the change?

ttuuxxx
I can't force you to answer my questions, but if you want to have a discussion then you should.
You probably need to check the code in init as well to see exactly how it handles this for every case.

Sorry I wasn't avoiding your question, It just slipped by,
Well since I've been using the large pup_save files I now install puppy, before I ran live over 1yr, because When I ran live I had more memory then installing, it was almost double, well until I figured out how to alter the pupsave, since then I've been very happy with the frugal install, The strange thing is that I could never get a swap drive working either, could that be a sata2 thing?
Everytime I boot up live or frugal I get swap failed in red, and everytime I try to make one in gparted, it deletes the partition and makes the swap and when it refreshes I get a yellow caution sign. and it doesn't work, Thats why I was forced either to run live or use a very large swap.
So to answer you question yes I think a lot of users might find a real use out of this. Like I have.
ttuuxxx

[ttuuxxx]

I also would like to see that script redone with gtk dialog and maybe 2 tabs like the first tab a regular 16mb-512mb and the second tab say large file.
The first tab could be the intro, plus the regular dialog and the second tab could have Caution for power users, use at your own risk, etc
Plus it would look so much nicer and fit in better with the rest of the dialogs/scripts. I found that sort of code that its built on very limiting,
ttuuxxx

[HairyWill]

Like I have.

I personally do not find your rather specific example a good justification for the general case.

ttuuxx,
Does it check the underlying filesystem to see if it supports files up to the size you are trying to resize to?
Which filesystems have you tested on?
Which package in the original unleashed build tree supplies this function?

You still haven't answered these.
It is not my place to determine what goes into the iso. You don't have to justify it to me,however you did ask.

what do you think?

My concerns are not yet satisfied.

If it takes you 5 minutes to create a 15GB pupsave on a sata disk with presumably a processor of at least 1000mHz. Someone with my example old clunker who didn't read the dialog carefully would probably think that the boot process had crashed.

[ttuuxxx]

Like I have.

I personally do not find your rather specific example a good justification for the general case.

ttuuxx,
Does it check the underlying filesystem to see if it supports files up to the size you are trying to resize to?
Which filesystems have you tested on?
Which package in the original unleashed build tree supplies this function?

You still haven't answered these.
It is not my place to determine what goes into the iso. You don't have to justify it to me,however you did ask.

what do you think?

My concerns are not yet satisfied.

If it takes you 5 minutes to create a 15GB pupsave on a sata disk with presumably a processor of at least 1000mHz. Someone with my example old clunker who didn't read the dialog carefully would probably think that the boot process had crashed.

Well I've been just running it under all the alpha's and before that I was running it under 4.1, And as for the question which package it goes in the original unleashed, I can have a look tomorrow, I have the unleashed locally, Its late tonight 4am.
ttuuxxx

ext3 is the file system oops

[HairyWill]

super
I think fat and maybe ntfs will cause problems

[rcrsn51]

Regarding CUPS:

I know that the default CUPS 1.1.23 works just fine.

The older cups wasn't working out of the box, its been patched on top of patches, on top of patches, Its old and ugly and not so user friendly, The newer one has worked but with issues, and some of the issues is that we were applying the newer version overtop the older version, which it wasn't made to do and patching it along the way and blowing up the package size, we need a clean slate like WhoDo has kindly offered, better late then never, Its not really going to hurt anybody, not to have cups in 1 release. It might take a couple of days of testing, but the end result will be a more stable and smaller package of cups. I'll recompress the images, clean up formating etc and make it small as possible, without removing any functions.

...I have no way of testing cups because the only printer I have is on my wifes pc, my other 2 pc's don't have a printer,

It makes it hard to focus on one task that I can't even fully test,lol

Sigh.

[Jim1911]

This alpha release really looks good and runs great as a frugal install, haven't tried it otherwise.

A few problems, some of which others have experienced also:
1. There are icons showing for 6 non-existing partitions, one of which is shown mounted. (Using the Desktop drive icons manager, I just unchecked the tick boxes to remove all from the desktop.)
2. P-widgets is a fine addition but the clock doesn't show until you click somewhere on the desktop. Also, how do you change the weather application so that it shows temps in F instead of C?
3. CUPS not working, error message (404 Not Found). EDIT: Installed the cups-s.4b2-i386-v2.pet which appeared to install properly, however got the same error message.
4. Parcellite doesn't work.

Consider adding Gslapt. It works fine with this alpha. If it can't be added, how about including it on the Puppy site as an official pet file so that it will show up in the package manager? Also, we need official pet files on the Puppy web site for the latest versions of other more powerful browsers such as Firefox 3.06 and Opera 9 both of which work great with this alpha.

Thanks to all the developers who have put so much effort into making this super release.

Jim

[dogone]

ttuuxxx, with utmost respect, I share Hairywill's concerns. I too have created an 11GB pup_save on an ext2 partition and found it to work just fine. Creation took less than 10 minutes on a 2GHz Athlon and recent PATA drive.

*However*, the integrity of Puppy's save file is paramount. Unlike the pup_xxx file, if the pup_save file fails, all user data can go with it. A few such occurances and we could find ourselves doing heavy duty damage control in Puppydom.

I believe this great new feature needs LOTS of wors-tcase testing on all subject file systems and a range of hardware with no, light and heavy encryption. Note too that, like it or not, we must consider Vista and Windows 7 FS abberations as well. Lots of permutations and no room for error.

Forgive, but I suggest you revise your post to indicate that testing of your new script has "begun" and that it's yet unproved (potentially dangerous). It might be wise the rename the script accordingly. Some careful testing by you, me, Harrywill and others, should only take a week or two. I suggest then bouncing the idea off Barry. That done, it should be safe to move forward.

Sorry to come across like a bad day with Mum. I just don't want to see Puppy pee the carpet.

[aragon]

And seeing how much work has already been done, I refrain from asking Ttuuxxx to recompile mhWaveEdit in order to have the same result we can get by simply adding some 20 bytes of text... (Re. my previous post: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 130#270130 and Whodo's reply: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 162#270162)

i haven't seen this before, otherwise i've included a solution for my actual build. possible solutions:

1. symlink xmixer to sgmixer => tested works
2. /root/mhwaveedit/config with 'mixerUtility = sgmixer' => tested works
3. recompile with patch

1. is an easy winner.
2. I don't like to include config-files (if the user has already one...)
3. most work, but mhwaveedit is easy. if so, i would like to recompile with support for libsamplerate, as this will increase the possibilities of mhwaveedit. Plinejs Libsamplerate-package from here http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=25372 has always worked for me and is only 104 kb.

@whodo
please choose and post and i will repack/recompile it.

aragon

[HairyWill]

aragon
I don't know how sensible a suggestion this is what do you think.

The config file could be upgraded by pinstall.sh.

I presume that these are not run when an iso is built from unleashed so how about dropping a patch script into /root/Startup that fixes the config file and then deletes itself.

It seems a bit of a cludge but it could work.

I wonder if it would be possible to extend the pet packaging specification to include lists of files that should not be overwitten on install or maybe upgrade. Seems quite an involved problem.

[dogone]

I performed some quick tests just to confirm the obvious, ttuuxxx. That is of course, that the pup_save re-size script must prevent users from exceeding 4GB on FAT32 partitions. Larger files are quietly truncated to 4096MB (by the FS?). Data beyond that point is (I expect) lost. Indeed, Barry's original script permits users to cross the 4GB barrier, but for reasons I don't understand, the file is either not enlarged or enlarged and immediately truncated. Neither case is a good one.

So you can immediately improve upon Barry's script by imposing this FAT32 limit and advising the user... We need then to thoroughly test pup_save files <4GB under FAT32 and "sky's the limit" pup_saves under EXT.

That's all the past 30 minutes have revealed to me.

[WhoDo]

The config file could be upgraded by pinstall.sh.

I presume that these are not run when an iso is built from unleashed so how about dropping a patch script into /root/Startup that fixes the config file and then deletes itself.

It seems a bit of a cludge but it could work.

I wonder if it would be possible to extend the pet packaging specification to include lists of files that should not be overwitten on install or maybe upgrade. Seems quite an involved problem.

@HairyWill - pinstall.sh files in the packages directory of Unleashed are aggregated and run when rootfs-complete directory is built, so it is possible for one config to overwrite another.

@aragon - I'd prefer the recompile option

[rcrsn51]

Regarding huge pup_save files:

The beauty of the pup_save concept is that users can easily backup their current environment and restore it if disaster strikes. That is doable if the pup_save file is small. But once we suggest to new users that a 10 GB pup_save is standard procedure, that advantage is lost.

I am sure that most experienced Puppy users are keeping their pup_save at a reasonable size and are storing additional data in the Puppy partition outside of it.

Anyone who needs a huge pup_save can do it manually.

[Minnesota]

Decided to retest Alpha 3 with printers.

Went back and ran the latest pet for cusp...it worked fine with Alpha 2, and I was able to print. On Alpha 3 it took a very long time and I did not realize it contained the gutenprint data.

Anyway..first image is in Alpha two.. it sees the printer, so adding is fine.

Second image is Alpha 3, it does not see the printer on USB. I attempted to add the path from alpha 2... /dev/usb/lp0, but either did not find the right place to enter that data or it just did not recognize my string.

So moving forward ).[/img]

Sorry reverse the images....blog flipped order

[ttuuxxx]

Regarding CUPS:

...I have no way of testing cups because the only printer I have is on my wifes pc, my other 2 pc's don't have a printer,

Sigh.

I'll use my wifes pc or ripoff her printer, to get it going, When Alpha 4 comes out, This printing issue is far to important. Worst case I'll go out and buy a new $30 printer, just to test it, ok
ttuuxxx

[alex12]

Puppy should have the option at startup to choose the environment before they load.

[ttuuxxx]

When it comes to the Pup_save issue, wouldn't it be better to have say 3 scripts
1st small script detects your pupsave and sees if your using ext2,3 and if so it loads the updated script with the large file selections automatically.
And if it detects your not using ext2,3 it loads then it loads a reduced script say 16MB - 1GB for windows and other partitions?

breakdown
script #1 auto detects what type of partition and selects script 2 or 3 automatically.
script #2 Full 16mb - 15GB with large Pup_save Warnings
script #3 reduced 16MB - 1 GB

any one want to build a new script? really all we need is just one new one and about 2 mintues of reducing the updated one.
I'm going to work on a new cups interface for a bit, HTML I'm well rounded with unlike programming languages so I'll try to make it more user friendly.
ttuuxxx

[alex12]

A few problems, some of which others have experienced also:
1. There are icons showing for 6 non-existing partitions, one of which is shown mounted.

Same Problem here.

[growler]

A script that looks at the size of the disk and free space on partitions and filesystem etc sounds great - with nice graphical windows etc. This is clearly an interesting project for someone with really detailed file system understanding. Probably only a few with the knowledge to have a crack with this one.

BUT... I think we are too far down the road with 4.2 to test and debug with the rigour needed for such a crucial element in our puppy.

We also need to consider where pup_save/frugal makes sense as opposed to a full install. I am a big fan of fast boot and whilst we have happily moved on the the fsck on the pup_save that made the boot up of a frugal install such a dog (just love the puns!!), IMHO a full install is still the way to go for fast booting and if the entire machine is dedicated to puppy (as it should be) why muck about with frugals. Perhaps we are too shy of recommending full-time puppy os as a real credible alternative.

Quick backup of 15 Gig is not really a great feature of a pup_save. But using puppy in a real world OS where most folks let email/attachments build up and up to several gig, plus a large selection of the family snaps with their 7 Mega pixel cameras on high res. means that a 512k pup_save isn't really goning to cut the mustard for many as their full time OS. The pup_save is an absolute winner to get the old 486 going with a 500 Meg hard drive - but out of place to enjoy the full noise of a really frisky puppy. Whilst frugal installations are recommended by the universal installer, perhaps it is time to revisit this?

As already pointed out the way around the pup_save is to save files outside it in /mnt/home/ - then the wonderful backup only backs up a portion of your stuff.

I think ecopup noted that he always installs as a full install as inevitably pup_save file size limits get reached at the most inconvenient times.

Nope frugals are for USB sticks and live CDs, and testing alphas in my view! Give me full noise puppy every time.

[ttuuxxx]

Hi growler

The way I've been using frugal install with a large pup_save file has been excellent, Installing puppy on my pc every couple of days is messy and time consuming, I needed a fast way to cleanup the system and install all my main usual programs, graphic, ftp, compiling, etc, due to the amount of software I compile having a system say with dbus which I compiled in the past week could lead to extra dependencies when I release a new package, like the gimp I compiled last week, When I was compilng gimp I had to disable dbus because I had that installed on my pc left over from another program and if I forgot to do that, anyone who would install the gimp I compiled would of needed dbus, same with other libs etc. So its usually best just to delete and start over with my main needed defaults.
Now what I do is
delete the current pup_save
copy and rename my clean backup pup_save with the added 'needed programs'
hard reset the pc and 1 minute late boom
15 gigs of freememory on the taskbar,
gimp, filezilla, devx, etc all installed, up and running, no fuss, It takes about 10 extra seconds to load up the 15 gig pup_save, compared with

Live cd, live compile
had to install all my 'needed software'
then I had to install the devx_401.pet <--- that alone takes around 20mins to check all the dependencies.
Then I only had 8 gigs of memory to play with

Full install
Install puppy, configure grub
had to install all my 'needed software'
setup the devx_401.sfs
only 4Gigs of memory because swap does work on my sata2 drives

by far frugal and large pupsave is the quickest, easiest to get up and running, and have the most memory resources, Its more than just for usb sticks and older computers, Newer Pc like the ones I have it just works wonders on,
ttuuxxx