(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

I have just uploaded the first Beta version for Puppy 4.2 Deepthought with Seamonkey and Claws mail. There are still a few issues with this one although it's pretty solid:

Known issues:

1. There are still only two desktop icon thems - Deepthought and Stardust - until we can get someone to sync the icon names properly. I haven't had time.
2. grub-gfxboot is installed but not configured. Catdude and I are still working together to get it configured properly - almost there
3. Blinky starts up but disappears after any jwmconfig change
4. I still haven't set /usr/share/doc/home.html as the default home page for Seamonkey. It's there and contains the link to the puppy web portal but you'll need to add it manually to test.

I have rolled back from the most recent ROX filer in the dotpets-4 repository because it caused us problems with RoxRightClicks. New applications include Pwidgets (1.0), load-sfs (420), and a host of other updates too numerous to mention here. Xarchive is still in because I still didn't have time to alter all of the dependent scripts. When that happens Xarchive will be out.

Coolpup has continued to submit a host of back-end updates and has been joined by aragon and ttuuxxx in that effort. All deserve special mention for their support of the project.

Mirrors:
1. http://puppyisos.org/isos/2009-01-to-06/4.2-beta1/ (user=puppy pwd=linux)
2. http://www.pkagfiles.net/puppy-test/
3. http://www.puppylinux.ca/puppyfiles/test/

If the mirrors don't show the Beta yet it's probably because the admins haven't had time to move the files to the download area ... try again later.

This release is 102Mb, including CUPS, so there is still much to be done to prune it back to a more managable size. As before, if you don't see this boot screen on first boot then you've got the wrong download!

STOP PRESS: ttuuxxx has managed to save nearly 3Mb in CUPS, so the next release should fall well below our 100Mb notional limit. Great work, Jeff! Can RC1 be too far away?



Enjoy!

Hi Warren,

Ready here http://puppylinux.ca/puppyfiles/test/

Sorry if it's a bit slow....we are working on it.

Eric

.. no sign of bogging (yet) - nice and steady from ca

Filefront Mirror for Beta 1
http://files.filefront.com/puppy+42beta ... einfo.html







So WhoDo is this Beta1 going to be the go? Or are you going to upgrade the now 6 cups packages, 2 have major reductions,2 haven't been touched because they are already slim, 2 will fix Abiword auto detection of printer. or will this be part of the next release?
Libgnomecups+libgnomeprint packages will add 66kb once replacing the current packages, so that needs to be added to the math also

also did you get the latest icewm 06?
I guess I'll have to try to reduce the tcl/tk pets I uploaded, If someone with tcl/tk knowledge knows how to properly reduce these packages please feel free to, The structure to me is unknown, But I could go off of Barry's past examples and make them No-treads. They can be found at
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... h&id=15054
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... h&id=15053
ttuuxxx

Latest MTPaint 3.30 Plus the new snapshot upgrade
Larger Files
MySQL temp gone, updating
http://www.puppylinux.asia/tpp/ttuuxxx/ ... .8-DEV.pet
http://www.puppylinux.asia/tpp/ttuuxxx/ ... 8-i386.pet

TWO thumbs up

Both Abiword and Inkscapelite now recognize the default printer!

Thanks ttuuxxx!

Greg

Ca download of beta4 is so slow at times it say 9 hours, one time two days.. will try in the morning. Other links are broken.. one says not authorized on that server. The other similar...don't remember the message. Right now 6.7kb/sec... four hours + varies, now 1 hr 25 min.....Should be 20 min on my system.

Hey WhoDo it might be a sign to go to Beta2, with the 6 cups packages, icewm, and I'll get on the tcl/tk issue about reducing the size. Shouldn't be long.
ttuuxxx

ttuuxxx wrote:I guess I'll have to try to reduce the tcl/tk pets I uploaded, If someone with tcl/tk knowledge knows how to properly reduce these packages please feel free to, The structure to me is unknown [ . . . ]

You can get rid of the Tk demos in /usr/lib/tk8.5/demos, which are only useful for learning how Tk code works, not for running programs. Aside from those, there's little or no fat in these packages. The vast bulk of them consists of the two absolutely essential shared object files, libtk8.5.so (almost 1 MB) and libtcl8.5.so (not too much smaller). Rarsa recompiled these twice to reduce their size, but unfortunately left important things out both times. I seriously doubt that recompiling them would be worth a considerable amount of effort for a probably small reduction in size.

On the other hand, Tcl/Tk scripts are often quite small compared to their compiled competitors, and Gnocl scripts (to match the GTK+ 2.0 look, if desired) may even be a bit smaller. For the sake of illustration, in the slimmed-down live-CD I've just produced with Remaster Express (a Gnocl script of only about 60 KB uncompressed, leaving aside package text files), I got rid of Geany (weighing in at 1740 KB according to packages.txt) in favor of WISH Supernotepad (approx. 75 KB .PET, script about 140 KB uncompressed) and HomeBank (540 KB) in favor of WISH Checkbook (approx. 50 KB .PET, script about 65 KB uncompressed); soon, I hope, I'll be able to get rid of Osmo 0.2.0 (650 KB) in favor of WISH HoneyDo (undoubtedly under 100 KB .PET), the personal organizer I'm developing because I didn't find Osmo 0.2.0 very satisfactory. Perhaps not everyone would see fit to do the same, but these examples illustrate my point: Tcl/Tk and Gnocl, properly used, could save considerably more space than these packages themselves take up.

Caneri wrote: Sorry if it's a bit slow....we are working on it.

Eric

Sllooowww for the first 39% then shot up like a rocket!

Alpha4 was superfast on Wednesday, 10min.

Thx Eric! (and WhoDo )

I Just finished downloading the iso from .ca durring the download it dropped out 110x times. But the md5 checks out fine, I'll see about uploading some place else also for the time being
ttuuxxx

ttuuxxx wrote:So WhoDo is this Beta1 going to be the go? Or are you going to upgrade the now 6 cups packages, 2 have major reductions,2 haven't been touched because they are already slim, 2 will fix Abiword auto detection of printer. or will this be part of the next release?

This Beta is too big - 102Mb - so yes, I will be upgrading to the slimmed down versions you've supplied, ttuuxxx. I am building a pre-beta2 as we speak.

ttuuxxx wrote:Libgnomecups+libgnomeprint packages will add 66kb once replacing the current packages, so that needs to be added to the math also

These are already in, but if your versions are smaller I will upgrade them also.

ttuuxxx wrote:also did you get the latest icewm 06?

Yep. It will be in Beta2 or RC1 - whichever I decide depending upon reactions to this Beta1

ttuuxxx wrote:I guess I'll have to try to reduce the tcl/tk pets I uploaded, If someone with tcl/tk knowledge knows how to properly reduce these packages please feel free to, The structure to me is unknown, But I could go off of Barry's past examples and make them No-treads. They can be found at
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... h&id=15054
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... h&id=15053
ttuuxxx

rarsa built the last lot of tcl/tk and I think they're the same version as you've compiled. They are in the beta as well.

Great determination with CUPS, ttuuxxx! Problematic printing was the one serious flaw in Puppy's character ... until now.

We now have a feature lock on Puppy 4.2, so there will be no new features from this point forward. From now on its all about polish, bug squashing and streamlining. Of course I will still include updates to the currently featured application set, but only the next "killer" app will make it past the lockdown.

On the home stretch now gang. Don't stumble before the finish line, ok?

WhoDo wrote:

ttuuxxx wrote:

ttuuxxx wrote:Libgnomecups+libgnomeprint packages will add 66kb once replacing the current packages, so that needs to be added to the math also

These are already in, but if your versions are smaller I will upgrade them also.

They aren't smaller, they replace the faulty versions in the repo and add Printers to Abiword, They add an extra 66kb, but are 100% needed by printing applications.

The tcl/tk package by rasa is faulty, You can't compile with it and its missing parts to actually make it usable. He removed too much. Thats why I have to trim it down a bit the one I posted. Or you could use the older versions in the repo. But the current package will not do. I couldn't compile amsn with the current one and rasa didn't give links to the dev files and also he doesn't have them on his repo for files.

Maybe you missed this post from 'pa_mcclamrock'

"Also, there's still a problem with the Tcl 8.5.6 .PET (the "clock" command doesn't work, and apps that invoke it won't start). I PM'd rarsa several days ago, but I haven't received any notice that he's corrected the problem, if he has. I appreciate the fact that he slimmed Tcl and Tk down considerably, but I can't help wondering if he may have cut out too much in addition to the "msgcat" package that's needed to make "clock" work. I hope you can either (1) successfully beg him to fix Tcl 8.5.6 really soon or (2) bring yourself to cram in my somewhat fatter 8.5.5-runtime .PETs straight out of Slackware, unless and until the problem with 8.5.6 is fixed. (They still amount to a lot less than the 4 MB you were originally considering for Tcl and Tk!) "

So tell me if your going to wait about 30 mins or less and I'll reduce what I can. And if we have any space left over maybe alsaplay+streamtuner ??? Pmusic doesn't play cd's, online streams either, Alsaplayer plays cd's, mp3's. online streams and tons of extras. Using gxine for these task is a large overkill for older computers and will make online stream choppy at most, where as this player will play smooth and reduce cpu usage by 15%+. The difference is basically being able to enjoy online audio streams and not. But the mime files would have to be set.
just tell me what you want and I'll do it asap.
ttuuxxx

ttuuxxx wrote:So tell me if your going to wait about 30 mins or less and I'll reduce what I can.

Take your time, ttuuxxx. I'm playing with a pre-Beta2 at the moment and I don't envisage having a ready-to-go Beta2 available today. I'm looking towards a couple of days away ... maybe.

ttuuxxx wrote:And if we have any space left over maybe alsaplay+streamtuner ??? Pmusic doesn't play cd's, online streams either, Alsaplayer plays cd's, mp3's. online streams and tons of extras.

I thought it was Aqualung you were touting? I have that and Streamtuner in my Unleashed tree but they're just too much extra weight at the moment. It all depends on size now. I was going to update to mtPaint-3.30 but it's humungous thanks to the included manuals and dependencies, so that's out for the moment too. The manuals alone are 3Mb expanded! That package needs to be broken down into 2 packages - program and docs - IMHO.

Let's use the Beta series for streamlining the release in the hope some of these desirable things can be shoe-horned in under our limit.

ttuuxxx wrote:The difference is basically being able to enjoy online audio streams and not. But the mime files would have to be set.
just tell me what you want and I'll do it asap.

Ok, if Alsaplayer is lighter than Aqualung then I'll consider it. Streamtuner can tag along too if there's space. mtPaint is out unless it gets significantly reduced. CUPS and its libraries need to be as small as functionally possible. David's work on smaller applets looks worthwhile too, so I haven't shut the door on his stuff either.

WhoDo wrote:

ttuuxxx wrote:So tell me if your going to wait about 30 mins or less and I'll reduce what I can.

Take your time, ttuuxxx. I'm playing with a pre-Beta2 at the moment and I don't envisage having a ready-to-go Beta2 available today. I'm looking towards a couple of days away ... maybe.

ttuuxxx wrote:And if we have any space left over maybe alsaplay+streamtuner ??? Pmusic doesn't play cd's, online streams either, Alsaplayer plays cd's, mp3's. online streams and tons of extras.

I thought it was Aqualung you were touting? I have that and Streamtuner in my Unleashed tree but they're just too much extra weight at the moment. It all depends on size now. I was going to update to mtPaint-3.30 but it's humungous thanks to the included manuals and dependencies, so that's out for the moment too. The manuals alone are 3Mb expanded! That package needs to be broken down into 2 packages - program and docs - IMHO.

Let's use the Beta series for streamlining the release in the hope some of these desirable things can be shoe-horned in under our limit.

ttuuxxx wrote:The difference is basically being able to enjoy online audio streams and not. But the mime files would have to be set.
just tell me what you want and I'll do it asap.

Ok, if Alsaplayer is lighter than Aqualung then I'll consider it. Streamtuner can tag along too if there's space. mtPaint is out unless it gets significantly reduced. CUPS and its libraries need to be as small as functionally possible. David's work on smaller applets looks worthwhile too, so I haven't shut the door on his stuff either.

Alsaplayer+Streamtuner is 466kb pet
Aqualung + Streamtuner is 583.03 KB (without libsamplerate options)
Aqualung + Streamtuner + Libsamplerate is 685.66 KB (includes the libsamplerate lib and options enabled in the compile for libsamplerate)

AlsaPlayer + streamtuner by far is the smallest a min 110kb-220kb smaller than aqualung, depending which aqualung you choose. Plus at only 466kb its a heck of a nice package for the size
Ok its up to you. You decide if you want one, just tell me which one and I'll change the mime's and quickly repackage it.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=38590
ttuuxxx

ttuuxxx wrote:Alsaplayer+Streamtuner is 466kb pet
Aqualung + Streamtuner is 583.03 KB (without libsamplerate options)
Aqualung + Streamtuner + Libsamplerate is 685.66 KB (includes the libsamplerate lib and options enabled in the compile for libsamplerate)

AlsaPlayer + streamtuner by far is the smallest a min 110kb-220kb smaller than aqualung, depending which aqualung you choose. Plus at only 466kb its a heck of a nice package for the size
Ok its up to you. You decide if you want one, just tell me which one and I'll change the mime's and quickly repackage it.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=38590

Alsaplayer + Streamtuner. Not only is it the smallest but IMHO it also looks the easiest to use for refugees... and appears much more consistent with our other Gtk2 app. interfaces

WhoDo wrote:

ttuuxxx wrote:Alsaplayer+Streamtuner is 466kb pet
Aqualung + Streamtuner is 583.03 KB (without libsamplerate options)
Aqualung + Streamtuner + Libsamplerate is 685.66 KB (includes the libsamplerate lib and options enabled in the compile for libsamplerate)

AlsaPlayer + streamtuner by far is the smallest a min 110kb-220kb smaller than aqualung, depending which aqualung you choose. Plus at only 466kb its a heck of a nice package for the size
Ok its up to you. You decide if you want one, just tell me which one and I'll change the mime's and quickly repackage it.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=38590

Alsaplayer + Streamtuner. Not only is it the smallest but IMHO it also looks the easiest to use for refugees... and appears much more consistent with our other Gtk2 app. interfaces

Ya its a great little player you can speed up or slow down your music 400% and make it sound funny, and it has visual scopes etc, which 175kb of the 466kb pet is streamtuner and yes its uses default gtk2 icons
I'll shutdown 4.2A4 now and boot up 4.2B1
ttuuxxx

" The difference is basically being able to enjoy online audio streams"

Downloading now thanks to ttuuxxx link.

""""

I know that these things have been ranted on before WhoDo;
but after all this good work, why not release your 4.2 under 100 megs;
and give the plebs here an option of Puppy 4.2 CE Deluxe.

Add the 5 megs...2 megs ...whatever.

If low end computers need under 100 megs....fine.

But if the average user coming across from Windows
wants more, 5 megs more or less is nothing.

I mean have you heard of Windows updates?

""""""""""

OK! downloaded in under 10 minutes .Will test now.

We are in no screaming hurry here.
So many Puplets get released now, must easily be one a week.
So have a think WhoDo....give us an option.

Sure there are a lot of old comps around...........BUT.
I had to throw out 3 today....unfixable 4 me.

Some happy souls have already collected them.
One I gave a working 17" monitor and 4 Puppies
including Ecopup and the ACER One puplet.

So hardware dies and a great computer can be had
these days for $50 - $100.
I have given working Freebies before as well.
Why not?

Puppy is a great distro because of the free wheeling ideas
that come out. Some way out and weird (no need to praise me)
and some extremely nifty and practical thoughts.

So let's not put ourselves into a corner here.
Diversity....we have that.
Perversity is not what we need.
We want the showstopper.
Most shows give an option to upgrade your seat.
Even a circus does that.

Our price for that seat maybe a little performance loss.
But heaps of praise from end users.

""""""""""

"Seriously,
I have tried SO many distros over the last 5 years, I finally built a desktop because I couldn't get Linux config'd on my old laptops.

Then comes Puppy. Lean, Fast, and deals with my o
bscure USB broadband and funky video like its nothing. "

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=38709

///////////

Chris.

Drives working great in Xorg and Xvesa.

I like that you have the personal toolbar on and java ticked as well.

All seems pretty snappy.
Amazing the time difference re bootup when you hit F2
and type puppy pfix=ram.

Seamonkey in Puppy is lightning compared to XP install.

Well done to all.

Chris.

cthisbear wrote:I know that these things have been ranted on before WhoDo; but after all this good work, why not release your 4.2 under 100 megs; and give the plebs here an option of Puppy 4.2 CE Deluxe.

Add the 5 megs...2 megs ...whatever.

I'm hearin' ya, Chris. What I'm aiming for, post RC1, is to produce at least 2 versions of Standard Puppy - one current kernel, one retro kernel - and then I'll entertain requests for a third "CE" edition with all the bells and whistles.

For the moment all I'm trying to achieve is the best bog standard Puppy we've ever produced, as a testament to Barry, saying "Relax, big guy ... your creation now has a life of its own."

After that, we'll see.

cthisbear wrote:So have a think WhoDo....give us an option.

...[snip]... Puppy is a great distro because of the free wheeling ideas
that come out. ...[snip]... We want the showstopper. Most shows give an option to upgrade your seat. Even a circus does that.

The options will be there, no need to worry about that. At worst they'll be in the official repository available through PETget. However, like all good politicians (oxymoron) I'm being careful not to stray too far from the grass roots of our support - P1-P111+, 128Mb-256Mb RAM, 2Gb+ hdd or USB or CD/DVD.

It's important to remember that 4.2 DeepThought is NOT a Community Edition (CE); it's a standard edition the same (hopefully) as Barry would produce himself. CE's will follow if it's a strong enough base to build on. I'm betting it will spawn a whole generation of new Puplets, built on 4.2 using the Woof build system. Remember, you heard it first here!

Thanks for the Seamonkey comments Cthisbear, It tooka couple of weeks to figure-out how to get Seamonkey compiled/running right. Glad Its working the way it should.

Hey WhoDo ummmmmm found something, I switched to icewm, installed filezilla, Gimphoto and well When I went back to root, I could see that my applications was lit up, so I opened it and there sat a new 25MB folder called 'bin'. So I guess thats the first new 25MB bug, lol
here's a pic of what was in. /root/my-applications/bin
ttuuxxx