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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Puppy not Presario friendly?
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cobalt06

Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue 24 Feb 2009, 14:33    Post subject:  Puppy not Presario friendly?  

I'm stuck.

Here's what I got:
Compaq Presario 5000
Intel Celeron
Maxtor hdd 20 gig
128 mb ram

This computer had Win 2K on it that would not run. I used a Win 98 start up disk to wipe hdd and format.

Used Toshiba laptop to download Puppy 4.1.2 and used InfraRecroder to make my cd. (I selected 1x, but it burned at 4x, I have no clue why).

Here's what I get while trying to install:

Gives me the boot options (red letters) 5 seconds to enter command, then does

boot:
Loading vmlinuz.......................................
Loading initrd.gz...........................ready.

Unlzmaing Linux...done.
Booting the Kernel.
_

That's it. Freezes right there.

I am only slightly computer savy, some dos, no linux. Please help free me from the bonds of Mr. Gates!!

Thanks
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canbyte


Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 266
Location: Hamilton, Canada

PostPosted: Tue 24 Feb 2009, 18:19    Post subject:  

I hope you waited - it takes awhile to load kernel, especially first time.

I'm also beginning to wonder about these 128mb ram boxes. Seems a few are having problems. Maybe Puppy really needs double that??????
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cobalt06

Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue 24 Feb 2009, 19:26    Post subject:  

Now that you mention it, I hope that I waited long enough. I gave it about an hour and a half with no visual changes before I aborted. Should I have waited longer?

I am also wondering if I should try an older version.

This is almost an obsession for me to make this work. lol.
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purple_ghost

Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 414

PostPosted: Tue 24 Feb 2009, 19:34    Post subject: I have not tried a Presario,however  

If I was sitting right there with the Presario in front of me. When I turn on the computer, and the screen comes up with all the red lettering, that you probably feel you did not have enough time to read. The bottom of the screen has the word boot. Right there I would type in, 'Puppy acpi=off, pfix=ram" If that did not work. I would try it without the "acpi=off


While several things jump into my mind to suggest that you check, it might be better if you described a bit about how easy it would be for you to do some things versus others.

If you are working on the Compaq Presario while having another computer next to it with a high speed connection, or a dial up connection; Then someone might make suggestions one at a time. If the situation is that you are looking at the Puppy Forum from, say during the day, when you are at work, Going home to work on the Compaq. Then someone might make a list of things to try.

What also comes to mind is the question of whether you checked the MD5 of the Puppy iso you downloaded. Such as described on the Puppy download page.

Might be that the Compaq does not quite have 128 MB for you to boot. Let me say that another way. The Graphics card may share RAM and be taking up just enough RAM that Puppy can not do its boot. The thing to do is to look into BIOS and see how much is being taken up, if any, and if possible, set that amount of shared RAM down as far as possible.

Is it easily available for you to acquire a bit more RAM for this computer? AND all those questions which follow that. Do you know the right RAM that you need? Do you have an open slot to put it into? Do you feel comfortable doing that?

Also might be nice to know how easy it is for you to create other ISO's. I am thinking that one of the other possible options for getting the computer to function faster, without putting more RAM into it, is to create a little swap file on the hard drive.

Personally I have started Puppy 4.1.2 with only a 128 MB RAM computer and part of that going to a graphics card. I also used the
Gparted in Puppy to create a small swap file. However if one can not start Puppy because one is just a bit short of RAM, then one can download the Gnome Partition Manager which is more tolerant of running in less RAM. Once the swap file is created, Puppy will run pretty well. But the best option for being a bit short on RAM is to put another stick of RAM in. Which might be seized from another used tower (I am too cheap to buy things like that).

Puppy Linux seems to take longer to boot the first time or two (there are ways to speed boot up later), please realize that you are not simply booting up a computer, you are putting into RAM and configuring an entire Operating System. Windows can take hours to do the same.

Also, I wonder if you are actually trying to install Puppy, I think you are actually booting the live CD and the install to hard drive comes later, if you choose.

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purple_ghost

Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 414

PostPosted: Tue 24 Feb 2009, 19:44    Post subject: Older version  

I feel Puppy 4.1.2 is a really good candidate to work. This version does extremely well with limited RAM. There is a closely similar version on the download page, Puppy 4.1.2 R. The R is for Retro and has an earlier version of the Linux kernel. I did see a note from someone on the forum, who is much more experienced than I, who said that as far as he knew. There had not been one case where the Retro version would work and the standard version did not.

Ten minutes with no action on the part of the computer would seem like more than enough time.

If you keep trying and posting, some one more experienced than I will come along and give his opinion.

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cobalt06

Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue 24 Feb 2009, 20:02    Post subject:  

WOW!! The command Puppy acpi=off, pfix=ram worked and it started!

Now the mouse nor the keyboard are working...

A bitter sweet victory, but it's a start.

Thanks for the help! Any ideas on why no mouse?
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purple_ghost

Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 414

PostPosted: Tue 24 Feb 2009, 20:16    Post subject: Mouse and keyboard not working.  

Last time that happened to me. I had a computer with a PS/2 Mouse and a PS/2 Keyboard and I had them plugged into the wrong sides.

When Puppy booted it asked what kind of mouse and keyboard you had. So which do you have, and which did you select? A Mouse plugged into a serial port can be difficult. If you have more than one serial port, you might try to put the mouse into the other port. Else you might have search on the forum for tricks to get a serial port mouse to work.

When you get those to work. Maybe try to build the swap file A working swap file will immediately make the computer run faster. I would suggest that you can make it about 256 MB, about twice the amount of RAM that you have.

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cobalt06

Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue 24 Feb 2009, 20:34    Post subject:  

I was looking at a window desktop environment, but the keyboard and the mouse would not do anything. Waited about ten minutes, no change so I shut it down. Now when I start I'm back to square one, the command "puppy acpi=off,pfix=ram" is not working and it freezes at "Booting the kernel" again. I don't understand how it could start one time and not another. I'm gonna keep pluggin at it though.
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canbyte


Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 266
Location: Hamilton, Canada

PostPosted: Tue 24 Feb 2009, 20:43    Post subject:  

Hi purple ghost.
When you say swap file, i understand that to be the pup_save.2fs file that was created at first shutdown - option to save? When i opened rox to look at it, it was dated at the time it was installed instead of a few minutes ago. Seems odd unless there is a setting for this???? If the 2fs file is not the swap file, can you post some further details as it means i really don't know what's going on? Thanks

On the matter of memory, when i load puppy from cd, no pup_save file yet, I/we have about 58mb free showing on the little meter bottom right. Means puppy uses 128-58=70mb??? The opening page only says this should be above 5 mb. You are suggesting this number be about double or 256 mb. I'm trying to figure out if memory is reason seamonkey crashes all the time - details http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=39044
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purple_ghost

Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 414

PostPosted: Tue 24 Feb 2009, 21:37    Post subject: The pup_save file and the swap file are completely different  

The pup_save file is a clever way to allow one to boot one OS from the hard drive (Windows is one option) while also - on other boots --optionally choosing a boot from the CD of Puppy Linux. The pup_save keeps the application programs and configuration data for your computer, which allows you to customize your Puppy exactly as you want.

A Linux Swap file is a devoted partition that must be created and formatted to be exactly a Linux Swap file. Usually the swap file is the last partition on the physical hard drive. In computers we have this confusion that we use the words 'drive' to mean either the entire physical hard drive or a partition. A physical hard drive might have several partitions. One must use a Linux program to create a Linux swap file. One of the Puppy programs is Gparted, which has a graphical interface which can do those things, and is fairly intuitive to use. If you create a Linux Swap file then Puppy will find it and use it when Puppy first boots up. One can go to Source Forge and get a stand alone version of Gparted on an ISO, which will boot in less RAM than Puppy. When the computer is RAM challenged, using a swap file will allow the computer to run much faster. Adding more RAM is always a faster solution. RAM is several orders of magnitude faster than getting stuff from the hard drive.


Firefox has had several issues which might cause it to hang and crash. The first thing I would be careful of is to clear the cache of Firefox fairly frequently. Yes, adding a swap file might solve the problem, might not.
When it crashes- What is shown in the little box on the lower right hand side?

Please notice that at the end of my posts I have a tag line that offers a google search of Puppy. The standard search engine for the forum is - not always the best (I guess that Forum software came as a whole package, not much the forum chief can do about it). You can use it to search for what might be wrong with Firefox.

The little number that you see in the lower right hand side of screen means two different things, depending on when you boot. You seem to have gotten that when one boots pfix=ram or before you have a pup_save file, the number is the amount of free memory you have available - left after Puppy is loaded into RAM. After one has a pup_save file, that number refers to the available space in the pup_save file, which you can change if you want. Menu/Utility

To me the biggest issue in running a RAM challenged machine is occurs when one starts using applications and takes up all the available RAM space, then it either can hang or with a Linux Swap file (the one which is one a specially created partition) it gets slower. I have seen on the forum that the rule of thumb is to make a swap file approximately twice the size of the actual physical RAM that the computer has.

One can usually find ones RAM by noticing how much RAM is tested when the computer starts, although that test will not tell you how much RAM is shared with the Video card. (Translate, the Video card uses the main computer RAM rather than having its own. Such a Video card is cheaper to make, and can make the entire computer run slower). Then there is a little program that one can run in Puppy that shows the hardware. Menu/System

I hope I have been clear.

Note to the first poster. I used to have a computer that would sometimes take five or six boots to not have a start up hang. I know the problem was worse when I tried to run an electric heater on the same circuit. I am not sure if it was interference or a power supply issue. Yes, it made me furious. Perhaps the best work around if the offending tower has a floppy drive. Build a Wake-Pup boot floppy. The option to build one is part of the basic Puppy. Menu/Setup My hangs were also in an earlier version of Puppy. However other versions of Linux never hung. I am guessing that if one of the GURUS on the board had my computer, he would have found the issue and found a bug fix.

I have another question for you. How do you plan to get online with Puppy Linux, Dial- Up or some kind of Broad Band?

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purple_ghost

Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 414

PostPosted: Tue 24 Feb 2009, 22:46    Post subject: Pup_save file also contains.  

pup_save-file also contains the temporary files of browsing. You might be running out of space in the pup_save file while browsing. Some of the Flash things might be very intensive.

At one time I had a lot of problems trying to burn CD's because the temporary files that are created completely filled up the pup_save file. Then I learned enough that I could direct those files to be outside the pup_save file and on the main hard drive partition that had lots pf space.

I do not know how they are named, but if you can put the Firefox temp files on a part of your computer that has lots of space. Then give it a test.

There is such a thing as low and high speed USB port and potentially a low and high speed USB key. I wonder what kind of Port does your computer have, and exactly what kind of USB key do you have? Seems unlikely to be a timing hang, but, it is possible.

When I first started using Puppy I obsessed about starting it from my hard drive. I had bought into the M$ idea that a real Operating System boots from the hard drive, and runs from the hard drive. I have found that I like the Live-CD method better. I have found I do not have the problems that other methods of using Puppy seem to develop. Then again, I use Puppy on only a very limited set of hardware.

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racepres


Joined: 16 Jan 2009
Posts: 531
Location: Central Michigan, US

PostPosted: Tue 24 Feb 2009, 23:53    Post subject:  

While I, on the other hand, use a Presario [not a 5000] without Windoze in it in any way shape or form... I do not like them Sam I Am!!! Sorry couldn't help myself... Have been using Puppy fully installed on HD since day 1, and prefer it... RP
OOps Forgot why I posted in the first place.
I run official release 4.1.2 on an old toshiba lappy w/ 64 megs of ram, and it starts up just a tad slower than this compaq... no it is not nearly 5min. , more like 1 or less... poor quality writable disks [especially memorex] and bad checksums, are the only culprits that I have faced thusfar , but I only have about 5 versions around here!!
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Bligh

Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 484
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed 25 Feb 2009, 00:29    Post subject:  

I would, 1 add more ram, 2 create a linux swap partition on the win98 hdd, 3 run an early version of puppy 2x which may create a swap file on the hdd that 4.1.2 could use, 4 create a linux swap partition on a usb flash drive. I just had this issue on a Compaq p2 300mhz with 128 mb ram. Any one of the above may solve the issue for you, which ever is easiest for you.
Cheers
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canbyte


Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 266
Location: Hamilton, Canada

PostPosted: Thu 26 Feb 2009, 01:21    Post subject:  

Hi folks.
Am still, despite all the coaching, confused about the nature of a swap file. Leaning toward trying to create one.
Am reading some threads how to, alternatives but it sounds complicated for my noobility.


http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=277888

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=13986&sid=98ccc391827870bdb4dbf74f84fab09e

and a thread on upgrading flash
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=277971

If its just a file like any other, why is everybody talking about making a new partition??? Post above says necessary but this implies swap file fills up 100% of partition which seems unlikely. I did try to partition a usb stick and it got screwed up not understanding how to answer some question dealing i think with boot stuff so i'm reluctant to retrace that effort.

Bligh: I created more ram on the Dell (256) and it is crashing worse than the lesser machine trying to open business news pages and such. I turned on cookie manager in winME and was horrified at how many cookies a single page wants to dish out. (7+). What else are these adverts doing in the background? Again, the high cpu spike seems to be the key. Spike=crash. Is there a way of blocking ads without blocking cookies that are needed/ beneficial???? Trying to find the thread where someone suggested that kind of strategy. Hmmmm.













.
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racepres


Joined: 16 Jan 2009
Posts: 531
Location: Central Michigan, US

PostPosted: Thu 26 Feb 2009, 10:22    Post subject:  

canbyte: linux does use the entire swap partition, wether it does or not! Sounds odd but that is what I find.. even if not all required, linux knows that it is there and available, and "reserves it" all to it's own. Lots and lots of this will be revealed after you get booted and snoop around w/ gparted and such. Further... I found that typing skills are a plus!! Being a "Mac guy" I never needed to sweat the typing much... now w/ for instance puppy, at the "start prompt wait" 5 sec. pup sees puppy[sp] pfix=ram,acpioff, is not puppy [sp] pfix=[sp] ram, [sp] acpioff. or other possible combinations. Spaces count w/ linux!! Finally I had a problem the other day w/ a lappy that had a virus [a bad one] on the win partition, and when i let the pup search for a [save] sfs file It just kinda went away and stayed....gone. Had to reformat the drive, reinstall win, use gparted to create swap and puppy partitions, and finally install the pup to hdd. In his case pfix=ram was the only way to get puppy to boot, and I don't use the "ram" option usually unless I know that I have a save file on hdd and do not wish to use it for whatever reason, mostly cause I am booting a different version. My final suggestion [may as well write a book] is to take a moment and download either a lighter version, I prefer White Fang, or even Damn Small Linux, which I decidedly do Not prefer, but tells me a bit about the capabilities of the box at hand.. Sorry so long... HTH. RP
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