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Why does Firefox 3.06 keep crashing on Puppy Linux 4.1?
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XiaolinDraconis


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri 06 Mar 2009, 22:54    Post_subject:  

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drummachine

Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sat 14 Mar 2009, 10:38    Post_subject:  

Seems to be a problem with glib-version included in puppy 4.11 (4.12).
I've updated my glib to version 2.18.4 and now Firefox 3 stopped crashing.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8257

PostPosted: Sat 14 Mar 2009, 16:05    Post_subject:  

Quote:
Seems to be a problem with glib-version included in puppy 4.11 (4.12).
I've updated my glib to version 2.18.4 and now Firefox 3 stopped crashing.


well that's seems a very likely cure judging from recent testing.

Did you leave other gtk related libs as original?

mike
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drummachine

Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sat 14 Mar 2009, 17:17    Post_subject:  

Quote:
Did you leave other gtk related libs as original?


Yes, I only updated glib.
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10760
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar 2009, 10:38    Post_subject:  

drummachine wrote:
Seems to be a problem with glib-version included in puppy 4.11 (4.12).
I've updated my glib to version 2.18.4 and now Firefox 3 stopped crashing.

How did you updated Glib without crashing your system ? Also a newer Cairo and libpng with the animated patch would make it run better. But if you mess with cairo be warned it will cripple your system.

below is the animated PNG I patched, install it and search on the web 'animated png images' they are really nice Smile
ttuuxxx
libpng-1.2.34.pet
Description 
pet

 Download 
Filename  libpng-1.2.34.pet 
Filesize  152.55 KB 
Downloaded  252 Time(s) 
libpng-1.2.34-dev.pet
Description 
pet

 Download 
Filename  libpng-1.2.34-dev.pet 
Filesize  371.64 KB 
Downloaded  227 Time(s) 

_________________
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games Smile
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drummachine

Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar 2009, 17:23    Post_subject:  

No, it won't crash. I have an old P III Notebook with a full install of puppy 4.12 running. I copied the complete content of this tgz to /

Maybe the problems with Firefox 3 and Flash 10 are because of missing libgio in Puppy - I don't know - I'm not a great linux expert.
The fact is, that my firefox crashings stopped after I copied these libs and BEFORE I updated the symlinks to the new 18.4 libs.
Meanwhile I updated the symlinks as well and my system runs fine.
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computerophil

Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar 2009, 18:08    Post_subject:  

I had the crashing problem with seamonkey but I changed to Firefox 2.0.0.20 and since I don't have this problem any more.
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computerophil.at
Puppy-Links, ältere Versionen, Sprach-Derivate, etc.

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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8257

PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar 2009, 19:47    Post_subject:  

Quote:
The fact is, that my firefox crashings stopped after I copied these libs and BEFORE I updated the symlinks to the new 18.4 libs.

now that's a curiosity...some lib of firefox compiled to use the later version perhaps...would get upset if not there.

I will have a play with this.

Where did you get them from (the libs)?

regards

mike
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10760
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Mon 16 Mar 2009, 00:47    Post_subject:  

mikeb wrote:
Quote:
The fact is, that my firefox crashings stopped after I copied these libs and BEFORE I updated the symlinks to the new 18.4 libs.

now that's a curiosity...some lib of firefox compiled to use the later version perhaps...would get upset if not there.

I will have a play with this.

Where did you get them from (the libs)?

regards

mike


When i compiled firefox 304 and 307, which is made to use the default libs in puppy, it runs ok, other than at some sites like mozilla themes, it runs versy slow and the scrolbars run gittery, it also needed the apng, I had to lower the specs on cairo to use it. but to compile Seamonkey you need to apply a gtk patch, if not it runs a lot like firefox 3.0, The patch allows you to compile Seamonkey as GTK2, but if you compile firefox, it only compiles as Gtk2+Cairo which is too old for FF3. Really I think we need a new puppy base, the compiler is getting old, the glib is outdated, the Cairo/pango is outdated, the Gtk2 has documented issues. The Qt is outdated, a lot of the times I'm forced to lower the specs on QT. The newer version I compiled is still ok.
ttuuxxx

_________________
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games Smile
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8257

PostPosted: Mon 16 Mar 2009, 11:58    Post_subject:  

Quote:
When i compiled firefox 304 and 307, which is made to use the default libs in puppy, it runs ok, other than at some sites like mozilla themes, it runs versy slow and the scrolbars run gittery, it also needed the apng, I had to lower the specs on cairo to use it. but to compile Seamonkey you need to apply a gtk patch, if not it runs a lot like firefox 3.0, The patch allows you to compile Seamonkey as GTK2, but if you compile firefox, it only compiles as Gtk2+Cairo which is too old for FF3. Really I think we need a new puppy base, the compiler is getting old, the glib is outdated, the Cairo/pango is outdated, the Gtk2 has documented issues. The Qt is outdated, a lot of the times I'm forced to lower the specs on QT. The newer version I compiled is still ok.
ttuuxxx

Not to mention throwing in a version hot from mozilla into that cocktail is not going to be happy either.
Gets a bit crazy as one of the changes behing puppy 4.xx was to update everything needed to bring it in line with latest software and hardware and now it seems that has to happen again less than a year later. I used to wonder why dsl were using a version of firefox 1.0 on gtk1 but apart from size it was probably 'cause it worked.
Is this a case of operating systems being dictated to by the software rather than the other way around?
Another thing I noticed with firefox is that there is a new version about every week ...seems like things are being rushed for some reason.And why do these new releases generally suddenly need a much larger list of dependancies to achieve the same thing? I'm not a luddite but change for changes sake makes me come out in a rash.

Of course the other problem(?) with puppy is that it does not have a magic button to update everything in sight to keep up with these weekly changes like the larger distros so perhaps this is why we are suffering more than others....but then we don't fill up the forum with mysterious brakages after doing so either Smile .

Another sad point is that I can run firefox 3 with flash 10 on my crusty old copy of windows 2000 with no service packs...trying to explain that to potential converts is tricky....'Hey this linux is better it just won't run programs thats all' sounds a bit lame.

This is of course a general rant but a solution is needed which is better than simply stumbling upon temporary fixes...new thread needed...'Linux...what now' or something.

off back up my tree

mike
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DMcCunney

Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 897

PostPosted: Mon 16 Mar 2009, 12:42    Post_subject:  

mikeb wrote:
Not to mention throwing in a version hot from mozilla into that cocktail is not going to be happy either.
Gets a bit crazy as one of the changes behing puppy 4.xx was to update everything needed to bring it in line with latest software and hardware and now it seems that has to happen again less than a year later. I used to wonder why dsl were using a version of firefox 1.0 on gtk1 but apart from size it was probably 'cause it worked.

For suitable values of "work". The underlying Gecko rendering engine has had a large number of updates for security, standards compliance, performance, and functionality since then. I'd use Firefox 2 in a pinch. I wouldn't use Firefox 1.

Quote:
Is this a case of operating systems being dictated to by the software rather than the other way around?

If you think about it, that is he case, and not just for Puppy.

People don't get operating systems, they get applications to do work they want to do. The applications needed dictate the OS and OS version used. And applications drive hardware development and therefore drivers. Look at gaming: high end video card development is driven by 3D games, with the challenge of doing extremely complex rendering very quickly, and drivers that can talk to those cards and provide the desired performance are a major source of frustration.

Quote:
Another thing I noticed with firefox is that there is a new version about every week ...seems like things are being rushed for some reason.

It's because Firefox has a focus on security. Unlike IE, where security holes can be reported and go unpatched for months, verified security holes in Firefox usually have a patch out very quickly, like in 48 hours. Firefox can check for updates and download and install them for you. I have that turned on by choice. You can always disable check for updates if you don't mind a security risk. (And the risk is probably fairly low, so it's not automatically a bad idea.) "Point" releases like FF 3.07 can be handled within FF. Actual new versions, like FF 3.1, happen far less frequently.

Quote:
And why do these new releases generally suddenly need a much larger list of dependencies to achieve the same thing? I'm not a luddite but change for changes sake makes me come out in a rash.

It's not change for the sake of change. They happen because people think the changes fix bugs, help stability/security, and add desirable new capabilities. The Mozilla roadmap is pretty clear about where they are going and why, and what the estimated time frame is for things to land. I'm generally pleased with what the Mozilla devs are doing, and agree with the directions they are going.

Not having an official Puppy PET of a new version isn't a killer, since I can usually download, extract, and run the programs provided in the generic Mozilla Linux distribution.

Quote:
Of course the other problem(?) with puppy is that it does not have a magic button to update everything in sight to keep up with these weekly changes like the larger distros so perhaps this is why we are suffering more than others....but then we don't fill up the forum with mysterious brakages after doing so either Smile .

It would be really nice if Puppy had a package manager that could detect dependencies and make sure all required components were downloaded if not present. Things like yum in the Red Hat world and apt-get in Debian do a good job of that, all told.

It's not too bad if you find out about stuff built for Puppy that you want to install here, because the announcements normally do a good job of listing dependencies. If you install from a repository, it's quite another matter, and you spend time trying to figure out why something doesn't work.

Quote:
Another sad point is that I can run firefox 3 with flash 10 on my crusty old copy of windows 2000 with no service packs...trying to explain that to potential converts is tricky....'Hey this linux is better it just won't run programs thats all' sounds a bit lame.

I can run Firefox 3 with Flash 10 on Puppy 4.12. For that matter, Firefox 3.1 Beta3 installed from the generic Mozilla Linux bz2 file runs fine.

Quote:
This is of course a general rant but a solution is needed which is better than simply stumbling upon temporary fixes...new thread needed...'Linux...what now' or something.

I'd start with standards on installations, so you wouldn't have things like a Puppy user creating a PET for a new version of an application, but guess what - the existing version installed into /usr/bin, and the menu entries all point there. The new version installs into /usr/local/bin. So the user installs the new version from the PET and doesn't understand why they still see the old one in Puppy...
______
Dennis
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8257

PostPosted: Tue 17 Mar 2009, 00:51    Post_subject:  

Quote:
Why does Firefox 3.06 keep crashing on Puppy Linux 4.1?


well just like the topic title I had exactly the same experience using the official mozilla download on puppy 4.1.2. Firefox 2 behaved. I use 1.5 all the time and have done since it came out... (mozilla security is just inherently streets ahead of the 'wide open windows mixed up with the shell' scenario )
for me 'frequent crashing' = 'not working'
Firefox was a program I chose originally because it didn't crash or seize up .

The basic problem in hand is that I read posts like this all the time and a solution is needed as it IS embarrasing trying to explain why the same progam running on XP is stable...cos crashing is associated with windows 98 ... domestic use of nt has changed user's perspectives somewhat.

Actually try using firefox 3 on slitaz for example...not a hiccup...so I do feel this is a puppy problem and since a browser is for most users of a computer the main interest it's vital to demonstrate good solid stability.

Any input on this subject is welcome by all...I'm generally limited to testing and observation

regards

mike
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drummachine

Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue 17 Mar 2009, 04:47    Post_subject:  

@ mike

have you tried the tgz-package from my above post?
I now see why it worked before I updated the symlinks: the make install process gave me also 1400.2 libs which seems to be the same as the 1800.4 libs (same size).

I took the source package of this glib from ftp.gnome.org and compiled
under a clean puppy 4.12 with devx package.

I haven't tried to compile Firefox 3 because of the other outdated libs ttuuxxx mentioned.
I use a german binary package from the mozilla site.

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drummachine

Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue 17 Mar 2009, 04:48    Post_subject:  

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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8257

PostPosted: Tue 17 Mar 2009, 12:02    Post_subject:  

Quote:
have you tried the tgz-package from my above post?
I now see why it worked before I updated the symlinks: the make install process gave me also 1400.2 libs which seems to be the same as the 1800.4 libs (same size).


Not yet ... will be trying with ram only setup as soon as can sneak the opportunity and I did wonder about the libs. I have manage to archive and do the same thing...ie files instead of symlinks...not sure how but makes yer look twice. Think I mentioned earlier that the crashing in this case was not directly flash related as seamonkey and firefox 2 behaved with the same setup

regards

mike

libgio...probably not needed so will try without
did you notice a pattern to crashing....particular site/content?
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