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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Introducing PULP - 125 MB Puplet for older hardware
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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`f00


Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 809
Location: the Western Reserve

PostPosted: Tue 08 Feb 2011, 11:46    Post subject:
Subject description: not to step on the creator's toes, but..
 

I'm excited Embarassed

At last it downloads (may simply be my newish dialup isp). Always did like p412 and looking forward to the different appset. FF2 is ok by me (although I'll probably ruin it with extensions, haha) but maybe I can use a few sfs to more-or-less instantly get a comfy overstuffed armchair. Should be interesting trying ede out in this.

Won't miss the roxpin at all Smile and yep, jwm themes are fair easy even the 'hard' way Cool (will punch one up especially on/for pulp and add it here later, one of these days jwm will lose the bevels on the menu) .. don't feel too bad about busting jwmconfig, in some instances it'd do odd things anyway Neutral

@greengeek - definitely 'ask' the console, it'll output some troubleshooting hints usually and is the 'lite' way to go..
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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2376
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 08 Feb 2011, 12:08    Post subject:
Subject description: not to step on the creator's toes, but..
 

`f00 wrote:
I'm excited Embarassed

Always did like p412 and looking forward to the different appset. FF2 is ok by me (although I'll probably ruin it with extensions, haha)

Won't miss the roxpin at all Smile and yep, jwm themes are fair easy even the 'hard' way

don't feel too bad about busting jwmconfig, in some instances it'd do odd things anyway Neutral


f00, not to take away any attention from Pulp, ut it sounds as though you may enjoy Puplite as well... In the Derivatives section on this thread.

If nothing else, you could apply some of the Puplite JMW desktop stuff to PULP, and steal the working jwmconfig from Puplite.

(Just in case you'd like to try it)

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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 394

PostPosted: Wed 09 Feb 2011, 13:21    Post subject: Pulp 0.10 iso
Subject description: download links not working
 

Withdrawn from rapidshare and the other link is broken. Where can I download pulp 0.10?

I have computers with 96 and 128MB RAM.
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efiguy


Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Wed 09 Feb 2011, 17:58    Post subject:  

Hi Sindi,

I just tried this link and it was working -

http://flusslinie.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/pulp_0-1-iso.doc

Good Luck and have fun,

Jay
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 09 Feb 2011, 19:24    Post subject:  

remember to change doc to iso after the download Smile
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 394

PostPosted: Wed 09 Feb 2011, 21:32    Post subject: Pulp 0.10 works fine
Subject description: very low memory use
 

I downloaded the file from wordpress, changed -iso.doc to .iso, mounted it
mount -o loop *.iso /mnt/hda8 (currently unmounted partition)
mounted my DOS partition and copied vmlinuz and initrd.gz to /mnt/hda1/pulp1
mounted another partition with some free space and copied the .sfs file
from the mounted iso to /mnt/hda5/pulp010
copied loadlin to /mnt/hda1/pulp1

Rebooted to DOS,
cd pulp1,
loadlin vmlinuz initrd=initrd.gz ro nosmp pmedia=atahd pdev=hda5 psubdir=pulp010 (on same line as above).
Would probably work without pmedia etc. but this loads even faster.

It booted straight into pulp, identified my serial mouse, network wizard worked perfectly and I am online with Bon Echo (Firefox 2). Before loadling FIrefox it used only about 20-30MB memory (plus a lot of cache and some buffer). Runs really quickly in 256MB (without loading itself into RAM, apparently).

I was pleased to see elinks, but the colors need adjusting - yellow on yellow. I will attempt to change it to mono.

I tried to read squirrel mail at sdf.lonestar.org. Elinks aborted before the mail page. Dillo simply could not access the signin page (ssl). Firefox works fine in 37% of memory. Maybe Opera 10 will also work? (Loaded into 31% RAM in Pup 4.31).

Sylpheed loaded itself just now and refuses to go away (File and X don't work).

I look forward to reading more about pulp. Thanks.


Finally I have a puppy for my Thinkpad 600E with 96MB RAM! And the 128MB RAMBUS desktop that kept swapping to hard disk.
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 394

PostPosted: Wed 09 Feb 2011, 23:14    Post subject: pulp 0.10
Subject description: suggestions
 

I have 16MB EDO RAM (used by 100-266MHz Toshibas and 133MHz Hitachis) and 32MB PC66 (used by Compaq and IBM) for the price of postage. If you have a free slot you can upgrade from 16 to 32MB.

The 100MHz Toshiba runs Opera 8 (slowly) in 24MB memory using Xvesa in Basiclinux (which boots to CLI mode using 3MB RAM). One tab. I gave it to a student to take notes in class using Abiword, and listen to CDs and mp3s and streaming audio. Pulp in 32MB should be capable of all this. We have given 486 laptops to students who needed them. With DOS wordprocessor or CLI linux. I don't think graphical linuxes should try to operate in under 24MB.

I deal with docx files using online conversion sites (convert-doc.com) or Zoho Office (needs broadband).

DSL comes with framebuffer-capable kernel for Xfbdev graphics. neomagic and trident chips (Vesa 2.0) do framebuffer but not Xvesa. Uses much less RAM than X11. I have compiled my own framebuffer kernels for Basiclinux (2.4 - can't figure out 2.6 yet). mplayer works with fbdev instead of x11.
All my 100MHz or newer laptops work with Xvesa and/or framebuffer. I have only needed Xorg for i810 desktops to get higher than 800x600. Perhaps pulp could omit it and use framebuffer instead. Save memory.


Mplayer plays DVDs unacceptably at 266Mhz with 228MB RAM in my Basiclinux (framebuffer) - is it really watchable at 300MHz? Even with hardframedrop and framebuffer video at 266 it is more than 'jerky'.

Have not yet rebooted but so far everything works. Many thanks.
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sullysat


Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 364
Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Wed 09 Feb 2011, 23:55    Post subject:  

Pulp is the only version of Puppy that I've been able to get to work on my lowest end machines.

I'm currently working on a 150MHz laptop with 40MB of RAM. Video is an issue with Pulp at 800x600x16. Very ugly text.

I did a full install on a 2GB HDD with 128MB of swap.

The system connects to the internet via an old wireless card. Dillo works well and Abiword loads.

If it weren't for the crappy video, I'd be pretty happy with this set up overall. I've always been a fan of Pulp for these low end machines because its the best blend of apps vs. size.

I'd pick a different software lineup for these machines, but don't have the expertise or time right now to be too picky. The biggest issue, really, that I'm having on these old boxes is the crappy video.

Keep up the good work!
Sully

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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 394

PostPosted: Thu 10 Feb 2011, 00:51    Post subject: pulp 0.10
Subject description: opera 10.62
 

At two highly graphical sites, Firefox2 uses 50 and 49% of my 256MB memory. Opera 10.62 (pet, run from its own directory, no additional libraries needed) uses 38 and 42%, about 4/5 as much. One tab open, no other programs except top and rxvt. Opera would therefore probably work (one tab only open) without swapping in 128MB total RAM, Firefox 2 would not.

Does the text on the 800x600 res laptop look crummy in graphical mode or in a console? (Ctrl-Alt-F5?). Framebuffer text looks better.
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 394

PostPosted: Thu 10 Feb 2011, 12:40    Post subject: Pulp 0.1
Subject description: browsers, memory, buttons
 

Thinkpad 770E maxed out at 228MB RAM. At same graphical site Firefox 2 uses 43% of RAM, Opera 10.62 (pet) used 57% until I cleared cache
and history list then only 39%. Maybe Firefox can be tweaked to use less. Neither of these browsers will work everywhere so nice to
have a choice. Have you considered links2 graphical instead of elinks plus dillo? Can be run in text mode or graphical mode (under X).
No javascript of course. Pulp works beautifully here - even cs4232 ISA sound. Boots really fast. I tried to boot it on the 233MHz
Thinkpad 560X with 96MB RAM which had refused to load Puppy 4.31 (I forget why - I had assumed too little RAM). When pulp asked to
choose mouse I got a 'call trace' message and then it froze up on the keyboard choice page with something about prism2_hw init (my
Linksys non-cardbus wireless card). Took over a minute to get to that stage (loading kernel modules was slow) Have not tried that card
with pulp in another laptop or in this one inserted after booting. A pcmcia wired network card works fine in 770E. With the wireless
card removed, it boots to stripy Xvesa which is nearly unreadable (and also offers 1024 res where the monitor only does 800).
Ctrl-Alt-Backspace (unlike in 4.31) does not get me console to run xwizard so I could choose Xorg. Powered off. Rebooted. Xorg 800x600
works but loads slowly. Basiclinux works even cs4232 isa sound but older X, kernel, libc. I had been using Opera 9 and Firefox 2 (from
DSL linux) having given up making Opera 10 work (needs newer X?).

Pulp will make this laptop much more useful (but still slow). Sound not working yet - cs4232 legacy, cannot find card 0. (Sound also
works in the Winbook in BL but not Puppy). Any suggestions of what file to edit and how? Same chip works in the 770E with pulp.

htop - using 13-14 of 91MB RAM (including rxvt). On the Winbook with 256MB it used 20MB RAM. Stopping bash (terminal) would save 1.9% or
nearly 2MB. Could be therefore reduced to 10MB (including X and wm) plus programs. Xorg uses 4.5%. Xfbdev with framebuffer kernel
might use less.

I have two 64MB laptops 233 and 266MHz but BL is working on them with Opera 9, and Opera 10 needs more RAM. Also a 120MHz with 80MB
which would be too slow for Opera 10.

How do I change back from the rounded buttons that turn blue under the mouse arrow to the original? I prefer to use keyboard not mouse,
and tab or arrow between buttons, and I cannot see where I am this way. It was a serious problem on a Winbook where PS/2 mouse does not
work with Puppy and I chose it and needed a mouse to run the Mouse setup wizard. I had to manually ln -s /dev/ttyS0 /dev/mouse to fix
this.
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 394

PostPosted: Thu 10 Feb 2011, 13:49    Post subject: pulp 0.1
Subject description: wireless pcmcia, firefox, seamonkey
 

Pulp crashed instead of booting when I had my Linksys WPC11 v 3 card plugged in, with some message about prism_2. It booted and let me save settings with no card plugged in, then I rebooted with the card plugged in and it was identified and I am online with the TP560X.

Still no sound.

Firefox 2 refused to load. Illegal instruction on line 31 of run-mozilla.sh about $prog etc.

Seamonkey 1.1.19 standard download, unpacked to its own directory, works fine.
top says it uses 115-126% of RAM but total memory usage is only about 40MB after subtracting cache and buffers. htop says 27%

Opera 11 complains about borders but loads in pulp and 96MB with Seamonkey still running.
Swaps to disk a lot while loading. htop listed did not list Opera.

Anyway, Seamonkey 1.1.19 works (slowly) in 96MB, Opera 10 uses about the same amount of RAM (did not test it here), Opera 11 loads but probably uses more RAM, and Firefox won't even load due to an illegal instruction.

Why use Firefox 2 instead of the latest Seamonkey 1.1 or Opera 10?
To fit in 100MB iso?
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 10 Feb 2011, 14:00    Post subject:  

Maybe my Atom based Netbook are two new for this pulp?

I gave a blank screen and just went into panic despite me having both nosmp and acpi=off to protect it.

Can the dear Dev please give the best way for a frugal install menu.lst code?

Or maybe not I have already deleted it out of frustration it failed. Smile

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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 394

PostPosted: Thu 10 Feb 2011, 14:26    Post subject: pulp 0.1 browsers
Subject description: opera 11
 

Works well but slow. Turned on Turbo which downloads compressed images.
Maybe they will load faster on this 233MHz laptop, which finally works with a recent browser! Chrome and Firefox probably need too much ram.

top says about 95% RAM usage, htop 51MB/91MB used.
I think Opera 10 used more RAM - anyone know?

What year is the non-pulp netbook? Did you try Xvesa and Xorg?
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 10 Feb 2011, 14:41    Post subject:  

I thought of forcing vesa but did not remember how to do it then.

vesa=force or some similar code.

Is it very important? I guess the Netbook is produced 2010 or late 2009?
It has a N270 Atom and Intel chipset 915 and 945 combined I guess.

I sometimes have to use nosmp to get some distros booting.

If nobody else complain and me is the only one having error I would appreciate to get which boot code that is supposed to work best with pulp.

I have no longing for to get it to work I have very many other puppies that fill my needs many times over. Smile

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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 2830
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Thu 10 Feb 2011, 17:22    Post subject:  

Nooby, I think your netbook is too new for PULP. The LiveCD of PULP 0.1 runs fine on a P3 desktop that I have... but when I try to boot my netbook with it, it can't find the main *.sfs file. I have the same problem with PULP 0.3 as well.

FWIW, my netbook also has an Atom N270 CPU. The chipset for that processor, BTW, is a 945GS if I'm remembering right.

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