To announce or not announce puplets, this is the question.

News, happenings
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
puppyiso
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue 13 Jan 2009, 02:27

To announce or not announce puplets, this is the question.

#1 Post by puppyiso »

Some might get angry over this topic.

Nevertheless I want to point it out.

Some puplets or derivatives are released but not announced.

BOBY(Puppy Parcialmente en Español) and pinoypup are good examples.

Maybe they were busy. Or too shy or very humble or just forgot.

Not announcing is not a big issue. I didn't post this to talk about that.

The big issue is announcing but not "delivering" the release.

I have been seeing wonderful announcements and read all posts about them.

Most announce their derivatives with some descriptions and screenshots along with download links.

But some annouce their puplets(derivatives)long before the actual release and keep everyone waiting.

I have seen some vaporwares as well.

Now poeple are waiting because they got interested. waiting, waiting and waiting.

There are a few derivatives announced in this forum as SOON-TO-BE-RELEASED quite a while ago but no progress seen. There arn't even some WIP previews sometimes.

Of course, it does take time. trial and error. But if they are not releasing them soon, why announce so early?

OK, I now anticipate some furious responds very soon. I don't know anything about development pain. I am just an end user.

Hopefully people will release their derivatives soon after announcement.

If anyone gets furious about my post, I will just sit and smile. I have said what I wanted to say.

John S
Last edited by puppyiso on Sat 04 Apr 2009, 16:15, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ray MK
Posts: 774
Joined: Tue 05 Feb 2008, 09:10
Location: UK

#2 Post by Ray MK »

Hi

Pinoypup2 is excellent - runs well on my 5/6yr old laptop in only 93mb ram, a 1Ghz celeron proc. and a 249mb swap partition.

Don't be put off by the tagalog menu entries either - most of the rest is
in english anyway.

Another STAR is TurboPup4.2 - fantastic. Fast? oh yes - even on my old
clunker. Try it - you won't regret.

Also ttuuxxx's re-work of 4.2 - Fast? you bet - and all fixed up nicely.

Stonking stuff - all of them.

Very best regards - Ray

User avatar
dejan555
Posts: 2798
Joined: Sun 30 Nov 2008, 11:57
Location: Montenegro
Contact:

#3 Post by dejan555 »

I did represent my puplet in this subforum too, but I also said it's about 500MB in size and noone still offered any hosting. I also started "puppy look" site on free hosting and now, after couple of days my files are somehow vanished. I'm not a developer, I just hit the remaster entry in menu for my puplet, but as you see there are other limitations. Free hosting sucks. I'd like to have my own server up and running, maybe some day I'll accomplish that, 'till then...
puppy.b0x.me stuff mirrored [url=https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_Mb589v0iCXNnhSZWRwd3R2UWs]HERE[/url] or [url=http://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_puppy.b0x.me_mirror]HERE[/url]

User avatar
dejan555
Posts: 2798
Joined: Sun 30 Nov 2008, 11:57
Location: Montenegro
Contact:

#4 Post by dejan555 »

OK, I guess I could try uploading it at MU's dotpets site, I'll have to take a better look at that "Host for large files topic"
puppy.b0x.me stuff mirrored [url=https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_Mb589v0iCXNnhSZWRwd3R2UWs]HERE[/url] or [url=http://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_puppy.b0x.me_mirror]HERE[/url]

User avatar
ComputerBob
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon 26 Jan 2009, 16:58
Location: The Beautiful Sunshine State
Contact:

#5 Post by ComputerBob »

For what it's worth, I completely agree with you, puppyiso.

IMHO, "announcements" should be reserved for things that actually exist in a form that others can see/test/use, instead of things like this:
Ooooh, everyone, I'm pleased and excited to announce PupPupPup, my new Puppy-based distro that will run really fast, even on a 486 PC with only 16MB of RAM! Despite its tiny size, it will include everything that's in the normal Puppy versions.

I haven't started working on it yet -- does anyone have any ideas for how I can create it?
[color=red][b]Computer[/b][/color][color=blue][b]Bob[/b][/color].com - Making Geek-Speak Chicâ„¢
News, Views, Information, Software, Help & Fun - Every Day
[url=http://www.computerbob.com][b]ComputerBob.com[/b][/url]

User avatar
puppyiso
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue 13 Jan 2009, 02:27

one more thing

#6 Post by puppyiso »

I don't blame those who released their derivatives but not announced. When I find those, they are pleasant surprises. Like BOBY puppylinux, for example, is wonderful! I stumbled at Puppylinux.org/puplet. At least something does exist.

This post is meant to be a reminder what announcement means. I just want to add one more thing. Not everybody has high speed internet connection. I used to live in those countries where high speed connection is taken for granted. But now, I have a problem with not only slow but frequently disconnecting internet connection. Qingdaomedia.com is worse than China telecomm.

So, when I see announcement and decided to download, sometimes I get download speed of 0.5KB (norm is 100KB) After long wait(something like a day or two), I burn a CD to see what it is. Sometimes I am delighted but sometimes I am disappointed.

Why? Some people don't attach screenshots and I have to guess how it should look like after boot. It's like a blind date. Isn't it nice to see the screenshot first? Even mail brides sent their photos first(I have seen it in a movie.) Seeing is believing. Most distro sites display screenshots. Why not announcement? Seeing even a single screenshot is a great time saver.

I am constructing a very humble webpage regarding Puppylinux for purely personal purpose. Even such page, I attach screenshots! The page has not been finished yet but if you want to see it, It's here http://jsos.co.kr/internationalpuppylinux.html

Please, those who announce, attach some screenshots. I know most do (and do so always but not everybody does.) It should be a "code of conduct"

User avatar
Pizzasgood
Posts: 6183
Joined: Wed 04 May 2005, 20:28
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

#7 Post by Pizzasgood »

I don't generally pay much attention to puplets (I have enough trouble keeping up with Puppy itself), but one thing that could be done better is to provide more accurate information on precisely what you changed when creating it. That way when people find bugs that don't exist in a normal puppy, (or find things bugs from Puppy that are fixed in the puplet) they can more easily find out why.

When I work on a custom Puppy, I take notes. I use Unleashed so things are a little more organized form the get-go because everything is separated into individual packages. Whenever I change anything in a package, I write down what I did in a file named after the package. I also keep a single file that is a todo list, but instead of removing things I've completed, I check them off (I place different symbols in front of the entries to show whether I've already done it, did it, not sure if I'll do it yet, etc.). I keep another file that lists every package name that I've either added or removed. And I keep a third file which is just generic notes.

That way when I'm done I can upload all of that, and people can look through them if needed and see what has been changed and what my reasoning was. It also means that when I want to do something in the future which I've already done but I've forgotten how, I can go back and look through the notes.

Just last night I was looking through my notes from last summer when I had started working on Pizzapup again (before I put it on indefinite hold for various reasons). That time I had done something a little different - rather than having a bunch of text files, I used Notecase to have them all in one file. It worked pretty well.
[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
[img]http://www.browserloadofcoolness.com/sig.png[/img]

davesurrey
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue 05 Aug 2008, 18:12
Location: UK

#8 Post by davesurrey »

@puppyiso,
I totally agree with you and don't see how anything you have written could produce an angry reaction from any reasonable person.

I never wait for what could be vapourware but I have been tempted to download and try a few puplets that looked interesting but had a few problems that I couldn't fix myself. Okay that's life but then when the developer doesn't bother to respond to any request for help to fix his own puplet, it seems as if he has abandoned his creation. I find that strange behaviour and not a little disapointing. But no problem as delete xxx.sfs is an easy cure.

Pizzasgood's point about documentation is also important. But I guess most developers are too involved in their next project to bother with good documentation. Sad but a fact of life. It all depends on why they have released a puplet? To share with others or some other reason?

I too have a fast broadband line so none of this is really a problem for me but for those who have to depend on a bit of wet string for their downloads I can see it as a real inconvenience.

But let's end on a positive note and say that at least we are blessed with choice which in the end has to be a good thing.

raffy
Posts: 4798
Joined: Wed 25 May 2005, 12:20
Location: Manila

xdelta

#9 Post by raffy »

In turbopup, it's been suggested that the xdelta approach be used for economy of downloads.

This could be a useful practice and make support simpler.
Puppy user since Oct 2004. Want FreeOffice? [url=http://puppylinux.info/topic/freeoffice-2012-sfs]Get the sfs (English only)[/url].

User avatar
puppyiso
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue 13 Jan 2009, 02:27

We should have another section for puppy makers.

#10 Post by puppyiso »

I posted this thinking there got to be a rule of thumb for posting announcement.

When I see PUPPEL Puppy studio and TeenPup 2009 evolution and 2009 legacy in progress in derivative section and other section.

I think they need to have a separate section to show their progress and take other's opinions.

Those puppies can easily be confused with announcement or released derivatives. We got to draw a line between released and not released yet.

This forum has announcements and derivative sections. Say, you've made a new customized puppy. What do you do?

Should it be announced or listed as a derivative?

I think that announcement is just that, announcement. for something like Barry's retirement or Barry's comeback or a new Puppy related site or service announcements and derivatives means released derivatives.

For those wishing to show and get feedbacks, there should be a work in progress or workbench section just for that.

I used to go CGtalk.com for 3D artist. The forum has WIP section.

That way, people don't get confused with announcements, derivatives and WIP. We can also learn a great deal about the process of developing as well as the pains took for making a derivative and bug fixes, improvements, suggestions after release.

Linux as we know today was born with community effort.

We should keep the spirit not only on community edition but also on making distros.

Puppylinux is very different from other linux distros like Austrumi, SliTaz, CDLinux, X-PUD, Slax and others.

They are closed and only developers make one or two different flavors. But Puppy is open and has many breed coming out almost daily.

Adding a WIP section will saturate Puppylinux spirit.

For community efforts, I am more than willing to translate all menus, documents for Korean.(That's all I know.)

John S.

User avatar
ttuuxxx
Posts: 11171
Joined: Sat 05 May 2007, 10:00
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia
Contact:

#11 Post by ttuuxxx »

I've made a few of those announcements, but what happened in my case with living water and Fire Hydrant is that I wasn't happy with the 4 series base and FF3, Also when I made those announcements it was near the end of Firefox2 series and I was going to use 3, but that just terrible on puppy 4, SO I'm working on Dpup and as soon as I have a base, the next step would be making good on my word. Sorry If I was one of those guys who made you wait, maybe in about another month or so :)
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

User avatar
puppyiso
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue 13 Jan 2009, 02:27

Not what I meant

#12 Post by puppyiso »

I know Ttuuxxx has been making many derivatives. I am not talking about you, My friend. Neither Dejan555, Raffy nor Pizzagood.

All of you have released some derivatives and or contributed to this community. I have seen so many posts of yours. You are the active members of this forum and Puppylinux community. I really like what Ttuuxxx and Pizzagood created. I appreciate your effort to make them and share.

I meant some other people who couldn't find appropiriate place to "pre-announce" their derivatives.

I thought that those derivatives will be released soon but seems like work-in-progresses. We got to have that kind of section.

Please don't get me wrong. There are many respective members who contributed a lot to this community. I didn't meant to point those who I appreciate very much.

I meant some "new kid on the block" announcing toooooo early. I also don't mean who already posted estimated relaease date.

To summarize, it would be nice to have "a code of conduct" when announce Puppies because this is the active forum seen by many members. This is a public place. So when someone announce something, it has to have some ground. If you shout"wolf" 3 times and no wolves come, no one will believe you.

Something like "soon to be relaessed" should be soon enough. We have to define how soon is soon.

Also attaching some screenshots would be nice even though most post them but not everybody does.

In korea, if I post something like this, I may get unexpected reply with anger. After a couple of unpleasant replies, I never post anything in Korean websites. Not everybody is bad but certainly not everybody is nice.

The ways they express their "opinion" often are not so polite, I would say.

But seems like this forum members are much nicer than others.

That is one of the reasons I like being in here.

User avatar
technosaurus
Posts: 4853
Joined: Mon 19 May 2008, 01:24
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Contact:

#13 Post by technosaurus »

Is this not what the project section is for...

as for using deltas, I modified the remasterpup script a while back to allow you to build an addon sfs (similar to macpup's macgic)... makes it a bit easier to use an super easy to undo and also to have multiple puplets
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

Post Reply