Suggestions for Forum Improvement

What features/apps/bugfixes needed in a future Puppy
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pakt
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#46 Post by pakt »

Yes, me too. I also prefer a forum over a mailing list.

marksouth2000
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#47 Post by marksouth2000 »

I like the forum. Now, I'm far from the only one, but I've spent some time (a lot less than many others, admitteldy, but some time) answering questions and making suggestions etc on this forum. Put all of us together and it makes quite a useful resource. I think it would be a great loss to close it down.

That said, a newsgroup is a good idea, and that way one can get it archived at google groups, which makes finding stuff easier.

Cheers,
Mark

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Béèm
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#48 Post by Béèm »

GuestToo wrote:another alternative to forums is a mailing list
No not a mailing list. :roll:
It charges the e-mail traffic of one's account and is not practical at all.
In order of preference:
1 - newsgroup
2 - forum
3 - mailing list.

In order of preference in the actual situation:
1 - a performant forum
2 - newsgroup
3 - maling list.
Puppy Linux 2.02 SMkey, KDE354mini, wine0.9.20, devx-qt-renamed.
Puppy Linux 2.10r1 SMkey, JWM, devx_qt_renamed_210, KDE355mini

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Pizzasgood
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#49 Post by Pizzasgood »

(Puppy Forum II ?)
Actually, that's what this is. Before this one, we were using simpleforums.

I don't know if starting another forum is a solution though (unless it's different software/hardware that works better). This one's only been going for about a year and a half. So we'd have to start fresh yearly, assuming usage remains at the current level, which is not very likely. There must be a better solution.

On the other hand, it could help the documentation effort. If every year we started over, people would be more likely to put documentation in more stable areas. Also, during the "relearning process" when we start a fresh one, knowledge would re-surface and could be documented better.

As for attachments, it might be worth putting a sticky in the Announcements section explaining how to get an easy list of your attachments and some suggestions of where you could put them to get them off the server. I have maybe five still here that I plan to move when I get back to my dorm tonight (don't have the address for my site's ftp on-hand).

That's just my .5 cent (they used to make those...)
[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
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GuestToo
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#50 Post by GuestToo »

It would be good to save them in their original name.
wget saves them as "download.php?id=3085", so it is not good to be used in a script to download all
a good way to download all the dotpups on a wiki page is

edit: post deleted

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Béèm
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#51 Post by Béèm »

Pizzasgood wrote:
(Puppy Forum II ?)
Actually, that's what this is.
On the other hand, it could help the documentation effort. If every year we started over, people would be more likely to put documentation in more stable areas. Also, during the "relearning process" when we start a fresh one, knowledge would re-surface and could be documented better.
There is some truth in there.
As for attachments, it might be worth putting a sticky in the Announcements section explaining how to get an easy list of your attachments and some suggestions of where you could put them to get them off the server. I have maybe five still here that I plan to move when I get back to my dorm tonight (don't have the address for my site's ftp on-hand).
That would be great as I have not the faintest idea how to remove my attachment from the server.
That's just my .5 cent (they used to make those...)
Dollar cents or Euro cents, quite a difference :wink:
Puppy Linux 2.02 SMkey, KDE354mini, wine0.9.20, devx-qt-renamed.
Puppy Linux 2.10r1 SMkey, JWM, devx_qt_renamed_210, KDE355mini

GuestToo
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#52 Post by GuestToo »

here is an archived page of one of Puppy's early forums

vern72023
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#53 Post by vern72023 »

plus ca channge, plus ca meme chose
george

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Béèm
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#54 Post by Béèm »

Eh oui, rien est nouveau sous le soleil. :wink:
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Flash
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#55 Post by Flash »

Pizzasgood wrote:...As for attachments, it might be worth putting a sticky in the Announcements section explaining how to get an easy list of your attachments and some suggestions of where you could put them to get them off the server...
For a start, you can enter your forum name in the appropriate area of the forum search engine and get a list of every post you made to the forum.

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Pizzasgood
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#56 Post by Pizzasgood »

Yeah, and I'm going to search through all 1460 of them :roll:
Actually, you can also click "your posts" in the main-area of the forum (over to the right).

No, there's a better way. There is an attachment control panel, I just couldn't remember how to get there. I'm going to go post the method and stuff...

http://www.murga.org/%7Epuppy/viewtopic ... 3783#73783
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GeoffS
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#57 Post by GeoffS »

I made this suggestion elsewhere today but I'll admit it was a bit off target. This seems a better place.
The proliferation of Puppy derivatives and add-ons must be very confusing to the newbie. It also leads to many posts on the main forum which do not relate to Puppy but rather to those derivatives and add-ons.
Separate topics for each derivative and each add-on instead of just one topic for the entire bundle would surely be less confusing.
A sticky in each topic would describe exactly what each derivative or add-on does, something that is currently rather difficult to discover.
Another sticky would ask that anybody who has a problem first confirms that the base version of Puppy works on their hardware. At that point Barry can stop reading :D
The moderators could, humbly and with apologies, move posts from the main forum which they believed would be better handled in the specific topic and by the creator of that software.
Not something that can be done tomorrow but hopefully worth thinking about.
Geoff

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Flash
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#58 Post by Flash »

I agree that people asking for help with their Puppy derivatives in this forum seem a little bit off-topic. There doesn't seem to be all that many of them as yet, but they could be a problem in the future. People who offer a customized Puppy might consider that, and make arrangements to support at least the custom bits.

It seems to me that too many stickies spoil a forum :) so I try to keep their number to a minimum. I know, it's arbitrary. What can I say?

As for moving off-topic posts to a more appropriate thread, as far as I know, it can't be done. The phpBB forum software does allow posts to be split from a thread to form a new thread of their own. It doesn't allow for them to be added to an existing thread. I might point out that to use this power fairly, a moderator has to carefully read each and every post in every thread of the forums for which he is responsible. :roll:

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Pizzasgood
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#59 Post by Pizzasgood »

One of the things with supporting a custom Puppy is that at least half the problems people have are general Puppy problems. Yes, it is somewhat the puplet's maintainer's responsibility, but having the posts in the general forum gives a much higher chance of getting an answer. That's because someone who doesn't use that puplet might see the problem and remember a solution. However, if it were another forum, that person would never see it. So, the maintainer would probably be the one who has to solve it. If he can't find the solution on his own, he's likely to make a post about it in the Puppy forum. However, a post could have been made there in the first place and saved much time.

Also, keeping them together means they are seen by the forum search (including the "Puppy Google Search"). That helps both sides. If a problem is seen in the puplet before the standard Puppy, Puppy users might find it.

This is especially relevant for smaller puplets that don't make huge changes. More complex ones might need their own if they generate a large number of posts that are not applicable to a standard Puppy (Pizzapup will fall into that category in the next version, if half my wish-list makes the cut).
[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
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GeoffS
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#60 Post by GeoffS »

Carefully - ever so carefully - I'm not sure that I should but I'm raising my head above the parapet - I don't believe I started this but I sure threw a bomb into the middle of something :oops: please - I didn't know it was a bomb and I don't know what I threw it into :shock:
First - I'm NOT suggesting that derivatives and add-ons should be banished from the forum. Just that it would be good if they each had their own topic. At the moment they all share one topic and it is primarily used for announcements.
Second - If this was done it would be much simpler for the creators of these add-ons and derivatives to find queries and reply to them. My suggestion that users be encouraged to test their hardware with the base version of Puppy before they post a problem would assist with this. This would help to resolve the point you make PG.

I accept the point that moderators can't move posts - pity. Maybe some clearer directions as to what should be posted into specific topics is needed.

I don't think I'm imagining it, I'm sure that the number of posts per day is increasing. Certainly the number of pages of new posts is increasing!
For the Puppy newcomer (and even worse, the Linux newbee) it must be getting increasingly difficult to make sense of it all.

I believe Puppy has three groups of users who may find their way into this forum and the forum must cater for all of them. Others will probably find more than three but the three I can think of are:-
(1) The computer nutters :lol: who enjoy having a system that will run on almost anything (particularly cheap or better still free) and that they can play with and maybe contribute to.
(2) People who use computers for very specific purposes but can't spend bucket loads of money on specialised hardware and software. They develop and/or use many of the derivatives.
(3) Escapees from Windows who have been encouraged by a friend or relative to try something different and not spend a fortune on new hardware. Many (if not most) know nothing about computers at any level below the application software. It is this group, which is most in need of the information in the forum, which I'm concerned will be put off by the current forum. It is this group who should be the biggest group and the biggest fans (Puppy-lovers!).

Is there any merit in any of these comments?
Is it possible for any of these ideas to be implemented?

Now - I hope the shooting doesn't restart. I've survived the last 70 years, I don't want to die in a computer war :(

Geoff

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JohnMurga
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#61 Post by JohnMurga »

Off topic posts from this topic have been moved to :

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=15852

There are people trying to make worthwhile contributions on this thread (which is sticky), however if you want to continue the debate started by mark feel free to go to the above thread.

Cheers
JohnM

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mbutts
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#62 Post by mbutts »

PAKT said
"Perhaps a solution would be to keep this forum but make it read-only so the valuable information contained within it can be referenced, and a new empty forum"

i agree KEEP the data as read only for future reference.

if ur going to update the forum, why not look at the whole puppy website system and do some updates there as well at the same time or over time?

what about standardizing each main page for all the puppy websites that has a common look and feel?

maybe add a news box to each puppy website (whether it be the developers site, regular forum, wiki, ect) that is sent from a central location to tell everyone breaking news like new release or "try this, this is cool" or "we need testers for this" or even "anyone want to help with the ............. project"

it might make it easier for us to know whats going on in the whole community.

how bout someone setting up a pet that wud do puppy rss and podcasts easily so one could keep up to speed with puppy news? maybe even a news ticker integrated right into puppy that you could toggle on?
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SnowDog
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#63 Post by SnowDog »

Dear John; No Pun intended.

At the behest of several e-mails and one PM, whereby I was given many kudos for my offer to help and asked to re-consider dropping out of this conversation, I thought I should try once more.

ON - TOPIC! (as per my last post and it's very pointed relation to the subject of this original post)...

I made what I felt was, a very valid suggestion namely;.

Do the majority of members who participate in the puppy community have anything against the idea of raising/donating, money to host and operate a new (or new version of this...) forum, that would be funded and controlled by the voting public?

I sincerely apologize, if some part of my answer to the original question caused you to feel that my entire post needed to be placed in an off-topic thread, so this time I have not included any reference to any person or event at all.

I will simply re-iterate my original offer:
A public pledge of $100 to be put toward a fund to provide hosting and maintenance of a democratically controlled forum and/or other help system, for the good of Puppy Linux in general and any and all who have or will create derivatives of Puppy.

I sincerely hope that you will see the validity and complete lack of "off-topic-ness", in this post and leave it right here where it was posted so that others can be subjected to the idea and form their own opinions accordingly.
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Pizzasgood
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#64 Post by Pizzasgood »

I accept the point that moderators can't move posts - pity. Maybe some clearer directions as to what should be posted into specific topics is needed.
We can move topics, and we can split posts into their own topic. What we can't do is move posts between threads. As in, the this post could not be inserted into the Beginner's Sticky, but it could be given it's own "What moderators can do" thread.

Just to avoid confusion :wink:


Ah, I see we have new "Puppy Derivatives" and "Puppy Projects" sections. Perhaps I'll round up my Pizzapup stuff and deliver it to the new location. :P
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GeoffS
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#65 Post by GeoffS »

pakt and mbutts - that would probably be the best solution. Most things grow out of their original form and eventually need radical overhaul. However I believe it would be a lot of work for John and his few helpers. There must be a simpler way of making the forum more newcomer friendly.

Snowdog - are you suggesting a new forum with some form of financial contribution from the members? I don't understand how that would work - I need some explanations.

Surely this forum can be changed 'bit by bit' to make it more suitable for the current Puppy environment.

Question - can topics be made read-only? There would be obvious problems, such as solutions being provided after a topic was made RO, however I'm sure a work-around could be found.

That's all for the moment.
Cheers
Geoff.

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