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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Verify that swap is being used by Pup? Ok, sortof solved.
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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ninjabob7
Guest


PostPosted: Mon 26 Dec 2005, 22:33    Post subject:  

Can't you just type mount and see if swap is mounted? Or does that only work on certain distributions?
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GuestToo
Puppy Master

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 4078

PostPosted: Tue 27 Dec 2005, 01:10    Post subject:  

mount will show you what /etc/mtab thinks is mounted ... if your swap partition is not mounted from /etc/fstab, then it will not show up when you type mount
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4776
Location: GB

PostPosted: Tue 27 Dec 2005, 05:32    Post subject:  

It's a brave soul who can claim any technical or scientific issue as 'SOLVED'! I would not advocate the use of this term in ANY context associated with computers, and would certainly suggest it be removed from the present thread by the moderators, forthwith!
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kethd

Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 451
Location: Boston MA USA

PostPosted: Tue 27 Dec 2005, 10:22    Post subject:  

(I have been taken the appending of labels such as SOLVED to indicate that herein you might actually find answers to the problem mentioned, not just a discussion among the equally affflicted and suffering.)

I guess I do feel it should imply that there are not only answers, but that they actually worked -- and preferably that the person with the original problem thinks their problem is solved/resolved. (I haven't read this thread closely enough to have an opinion in this instance.)
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Takilla

Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 53
Location: Lakeside and Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Wed 28 Dec 2005, 04:28    Post subject: solved?  

So whatś a newbee to do?

I posted ¨solved"at the suggestion of another poster, being new to forums and puppy linux. I would really like to cancel this thread on swap, (but I do not know how) and maybe write something for the wiki when I have verified that this particular swap configuration is really going to work. But no moderators have joined in to give clarification on the matter. Had I known more I could have been more concise as to my questions, but then I may not have needed to ask. Very often, for a newbee, the premise upon which questions are asked are muddied with misconceptions, which are soon clarified if they stick with it and if the other more knowledgable posters are patient (which they have been with me, thankfully). I have been trying to set the best configuration with the following equipment: (50 units). these will be used mostly for internet and word posessing, printing.

1. Dell GX1, 266 to 350meghz, 64 to 128 Mb RAM
2. Original 1G HD (usually WD Caviars) as primarys (hda)
3. Adding 1.2G to 1.7G HDs as secondarys assigned to /home partition.(hdb)
(I made hdb the /home to keep hda with /root, etc, from filling up
and for added securety)
4. 200Mb swap on each of hda and hdb.

Feedback?

Questions:

1. How much swap on each HD and where should swap be put, on the out/home side or inside track, for best speed?(some say middle, but how do you do that?)

2. Does making the /home on hdb auto mount on boot present a security risk?

Anyway, i would cancel this thread if I knew how, so I invite the instructions on how to do that.

Thanks.
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4759
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Wed 28 Dec 2005, 04:53    Post subject: Use of Two Hard Drives (/dev/hda, /dev/hdb)  

You've capped your original post with a clear set of answer here, so no need to worry when the discussion extends into another angle (that opens another "unsolved" region Smile )

Two swap partitions (one in each drive) may be unnecessary. Keeping it in /dev/hdb could be useful as, should you decide later to just stick to a live CD, your data drive (with swap partition) can be used as a single drive (it will then become /dev/hda from being /dev/hdb or second drive).

Most people are happy numbering the main (ext2 or linux) partition as first, say /dev/hdb1, and the next, smaller one as swap (/dev/hdb2). These old machines are not to be used as cutting-edge devices (ex., high-speed server) so the location of the swap partition should not be critical - what is critical perhaps is ease of understanding for the user.
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Takilla

Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 53
Location: Lakeside and Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Wed 28 Dec 2005, 05:05    Post subject:  

Ok, getting some better ideas now on what may be best for these machines and best for how they will be used-best for the user that is.
Thanks for your reply Raffy.
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Ian
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 1237
Location: Queensland

PostPosted: Wed 28 Dec 2005, 05:50    Post subject:  

If you have Linux installed on a hard drive you can put the swap partition anywhere, I would suggest you make it the second primary partition on the hard drive.

The kernel only needs to locate the swap partition so that it can utilize it to swap pages in and out.

If you have a second hard drive you can make it one big partition and format it as ext2 or ext3 then mount it in /mnt as /dev/hdb1.

You could put an entry in /etc/fstab to allow it to be mounted at bootup and just access it through /mnt/hdb1 with a symbolic link and a desktop shortcut.
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kethd

Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 451
Location: Boston MA USA

PostPosted: Wed 28 Dec 2005, 10:05    Post subject:  

Takilla,
I encourage you to contribute to the wiki -- just Plunge Ahead with whatever you think you know now, add to it later -- we need more participants over there.

Don't worry too much about this thread. The whole purpose of the Forum is to be a discussion, a very useful format for all potential current and future readers with similar interests. Ultimately, each thread wanders where it will, lives or dies as a cooperative outcome.

I've refurbed many similar Dell GX. (Not with Puppy.) I still think your best bet is buy ram on eBay, bump them all up to at least 128MB, and forget swap entirely. Your questions about the best ways to use two 1GB drives in each computer are very interesting, and it will be great to get the benefit of what you learn over time -- but again, I think it is kind of overkill, one 1GB drive is plenty to do a lot with Puppy. I'd strongly encourage you to set up a few sample computers with 128MB and just one 1GB drive, no swap, and just see how well they do, what limitations they have in real use, if any!

Your intended uses are very simple, I think you can keep your computers very simple and serve those needs very well. In fact, I think your main challenges are how to keep junk from accumulating on the computers, and the more storage is available, the more this can happen. You want a very simple way to restore to a base state after anything happens. Personally, I'd be very tempted not to install to HD at all, just to run off CDs, which in the case of Puppy you can easily remaster to be whatever you want. Why would you ever want to allow users to store anything on Hard Drive, from one day to the next? They can store any personal files on floppy, on USB drives, or on the Internet... What about having no Hard Drive at all, or not having it mapped/available, or ONLY formatting it as swap, so nothing carries over from day to day?

What we really need is to hear from someone with Experience using Puppy for a large multi-workstation puplic-access type use.

I have never heard of using more than one swap partition. Best performance would be to put it on a drive least likely to get other accesses while swap is being used.

Partition Magic is the best tool I've found for manually making partitions any way you want them. Haven't used it with Linux partitions.

Ghost is the best tool for volume replicating whole hard drive filesystems. Again, have not used it for Linux.

I really think that your biggest issues are long-term admin and maintenance, and there is no substitute for actual experience. After you have been taught by reality for a year in this specific context, then you'll know just how you want to do things...
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Takilla

Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 53
Location: Lakeside and Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Thu 29 Dec 2005, 03:55    Post subject:  

I had to print this page(3). A lot to think about. These post are very helpful. Just wanted to make sure that all of you know that I am reading your responses,tho' I will have little to say until after I set up a few more computors.

Thanks again for your time.

Takilla
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4776
Location: GB

PostPosted: Thu 29 Dec 2005, 05:48    Post subject:  

Partition Magic can be very useful for Linux. It can create ext2 and swap partitions and format them. Unlike M$DOS fdisk, it doesn't force a single primary partition and everything else in extended ones.
Ghost is gruesome! PQ Disk Image with Diskcopy is superior, but haven't tried it with Linux yet. The dd method would seem to make it irrelevent in this context.
I agree that this thread contains important discussions. Personally, I don't like Wiki s; I prefer a topic to be picked out when moderately mature and written up as a Guide by one of the cognoscenti, who might edit it from time to time.
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kethd

Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 451
Location: Boston MA USA

PostPosted: Thu 29 Dec 2005, 17:59    Post subject:  

It is often said that M$ prohibits more than one primary partition per hard drive. But that is not true. I have been making and using up to four primary partitions, using various tools, with no ill effects, for years.

Ghost is not user-friendly. It takes a lot of practice. But if you have the need for it fairly often, it is worth it. It is fantastic how it automatically adjusts everything so that transplanted installations work. (Again, no experience with Linux.)

dd seems like the opposite extreme. As long as the media are exactly the same size, and there are no geometry differences or bad spots etc it might work...

(If I were doing a volume refurb production line, I'd run SpinRite on all the drives, if it were convenient/practical.)
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Takilla

Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 53
Location: Lakeside and Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Fri 30 Dec 2005, 02:55    Post subject:  

I have not tried SpinRite, willlook into it.

So far I have used Darrik's Nuke to wipe the drive, then Puppy Live, it's cfdisk to format and even Partition Commander in the live CD mode for various situations. I have used PartComm. in live CD mode quite a bit. Cannot use Part.Majic because I do not dual boot w/MS, tho I have used it in the past alot.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4776
Location: GB

PostPosted: Fri 30 Dec 2005, 09:10    Post subject:  

No need to use commercial SW!
Yes, as I said, it's only M$DOS fdisk that imposes limitations on the primary partition. Another thread discussed all this (Bruce or Ian?) along with the limitations of DRDOS6 and other options. It is another topic worth extracting as a compilation for general reference.
I have a simple debug script for completely wiping HDs. If someone could host it and provide a contact email address, I will forward it.
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kethd

Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 451
Location: Boston MA USA

PostPosted: Fri 30 Dec 2005, 21:01    Post subject:  

Basic swap space how to:
http://www.murga.org/%7Epuppy/viewtopic.php?t=4978
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