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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
Who's in charge?
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sikpuppy


Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 433
PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr 2009, 09:58    Post subject:  
Why not let ecomoney be chief coordinator? He may have less time then to bore me with his achievements.
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England
PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr 2009, 10:11    Post subject:  
Quote:
Why not let ecomoney be chief coordinator? He may have less time then to bore me with his achievements.


Im sorry for boring you...feel free to bore me back whenever you have any yourself.

Actions speak louder than words whodo....have you fixed them bugs yet?

You might wanna check "recent puplets" Wink
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10720
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia
PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr 2009, 10:33    Post subject:  
sikpuppy wrote:
Why not let ecomoney be chief coordinator? He may have less time then to bore me with his achievements.


OMG NEVER LET ECOMONEY BE CHIEF COORINATOR !!!!!
I nominated Ecomoney as "The Chief Recycle Bin Deleter" he can go to everbodys house and clean out their recycle bins, lol that will keep him busy and away from the keyboard. that way we can get work and less stress around here. I sure as heck wouldn't take any instructions or views from him onboard ever again. Anybody second that?
ttuuxxx
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Last edited by ttuuxxx on Thu 30 Apr 2009, 12:42; edited 2 times in total
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sikpuppy


Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 433
PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr 2009, 11:00    Post subject:  
[quote="ecomoney"]
Quote:

Im sorry for boring you...feel free to bore me back whenever you have any yourself.

Achievements? I have many. I don't tend to dwell on them as a self-promotion exercise.

I don't know what they taught you about people skills in your business studies, but I was of the impression that faint praise is worse than none at all. All it does is cause people to become resentful.

In any case, this is not a business enterprise, however much you seem to want to run it as one. Your own business might be run along those lines, but a purely voluntary, and I do mean PURELY voluntary, exercise such as Puppy needs a different approach.

When you come to the same conclusion, perhaps you might be less blind to the actual needs of other contributors here and make your own contribution more useful.

To be honest, I think I might have some skills to use in this place, but I am reticent to get too deep if the only reward for any effort I make is for you to bully me into delivering results. I honestly have had enough of that with previous dealings with over-bearing project managers in the past.

Perhaps bore isn't the correct term. Perhaps, "tl;dr" might be a better term Smile
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England
PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr 2009, 11:06    Post subject:  
...and still no comment from the government man Very Happy

Ttuxxx....thats pretty much the job Ive got already, when their bins are full of old p.c.'s

Your a programmer Ttuxxx, and ff you dont understand the problem, you will never find a solution. You need to know more than code.

But yes, its about time I returned to "real life", my projects are late.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 2852
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK
PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr 2009, 11:39    Post subject:  
I'm accustomed to seeing [at the PC Guide] moderators warning people who begin throwing around disrespectful comments [from this side or that], to cease at once or suffer the consequences.

It tends to force people away from words powered/driven by EMOTION [the monsters of the ID] rather than intellect.

And it is wiser...
When the other party goes that way...
To either keep cool and not respond in kind...
Or else not respond at all.
i.e
"If in doubt SAY NOWT".

I'm attempting to sooooth.
Or should I take my own advice and say nothing?

I remember when I was a young boy...
I tried to stop a dog fight...
And got bitten for my trouble.
Still got the teeth marks all around my knee. Sad
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tronkel


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 1047
Location: Vienna Austria
PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr 2009, 11:50    Post subject:  
Ecomoney thinks he has found a "mission" for himself in promoting low-cost computing for the unfortunate masses.

Having helped out such organisations myself with computing using Puppy, I can understand the warm feeling you get when everything goes well with the installation(s).

However, let's not become self-satisfied about all this. What we have here is a distro forum that deals with a hobbyist OS. People give of their time and energy simply because they get get a kick out of their hobby - nothing more than that. The words "mission" and "hobby" mean two entirely different things.

Ecomoney wrote:

Quote:
Actions speak louder than words whodo....have you fixed them bugs yet?


The above quote from Ecomoney is presumptuous. It has the unmistakable underlying tone of someone who sees it as his self-appointed task, to ensure that everything possible is being done to evangelise and to raise to a state of perfection, what he sees as his mission.

I find that very irritating and unnecessary as well.

Even your clients don't expect you to change the world on their behalf, so please don't expect other people here to help you with this task either.
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Last edited by tronkel on Thu 30 Apr 2009, 14:11; edited 1 time in total
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK
PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr 2009, 13:45    Post subject:  
ecomoney wrote:
Yes Nathan, I can see that you have been tossed about by the waves of fortune (I had a similar experience myself), when the world outside puppy catches up and you have housing, income, food etc to think about first. It happened to me recently when I lost everything and had to start from scratch. It can change a person, if they allow, when they have been through that so I do empathise with you.


hmm, perhaps we should also have a 'tossed about by the waves of fortune, but got back up again' puppy members club, as well as a council

here's to rejection, yay

learn life the hard way.... wink:

only qualified members need apply

Aitch Smile
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England
PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr 2009, 17:53    Post subject:  
Yes, Ive recently gained a diploma at the school of hard knocks too.

@ Tronkel

Actually, many of my clients HAVE asked me to come on here and see if I can get some simple changes made to base puppy. I actually prefer base 4.2 "Shut up ecomoney" edition (which I use) myself over that of the puplet Ecopup I created for myself.

After having tested both on my clients/users, they are very clear that they prefer ecopup, but wish it had desktop icons for drives and better hardware support!

Tronkel, thank you for sharing your background too (it gets easier the more you do it), I cant see why you find my evangelism or perfecting "annoying"..please explain.
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tronkel


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 1047
Location: Vienna Austria
PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr 2009, 18:09    Post subject:  
Ecomoney wrote:

Quote:
I cant see why you find my evangelism or perfecting "annoying"..please explain.


Easily done.

Let's make an analogy with religion. Evangelists often take the form of self-appointed preachers of a particular religion. They do not seem to understand that others might not share a similar "Weltanschauung" or worldview as themselves. They seem completely oblivious as to how they come across to other people. Their sermons come over in a hectoring fashion. That is you Ecomoney in a nutshell. I find this very irritating - just as I do the religionists.

Give it a rest please.
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 1481
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr 2009, 20:17    Post subject: open source evangelism  
tronkel wrote:
Ecomoney wrote:

Quote:
I cant see why you find my evangelism or perfecting "annoying"..please explain.


Easily done.

Let's make an analogy with religion. Evangelists often take the form of self-appointed preachers of a particular religion. They do not seem to understand that others might not share a similar "Weltanschauung" or worldview as themselves. They seem completely oblivious as to how they come across to other people. Their sermons come over in a hectoring fashion.


Enter evangelist Richard Stallman. Would there have been an open-source movement without him? Why wouldn't there be, even IBM used to release its software in an openly readable form to its purchasers. Much though I understand most of Stallman's concerns, I do find his dictates stifling; dictatorial attitudes and philosophies don't fit very well with models of openness and freedom IMO.

Open source is good; the trouble indeed arises when it becomes "a mission"; Puppy Linux began (and in any real sense still is) as one man's hobby. It has been a huge success as a hobbyist/experimentor's system, and rightly continues to be so. As far as I believe, since Puppy is clearly a volunteer hobbyist effort, no-one has a right to make demands of anyone contributing to Puppy, regardless of the importance of their own efforts within the community at large. Major/fundamental open source efforts such as Linux kernel work, Gnome, KDE and so on, are a different matter since they are marketed as professional alternatives to Microsoft products and so on. Had Puppy been adopted by the One Laptop Per Child project (or similar professional/non-hobby international project), that would be a different matter of course, since such committment comes with external responsibility.

In my opionion, in its current development model, Puppy Linux does not have and should not be expected to have any responsibility with anything any of its many users do with the freely given offering.
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 4737
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr 2009, 23:56    Post subject:  
Well, for Puppy 5 "Kennel", it will be Barry K.....................
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PaulBx1

Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2308
Location: Wyoming, USA
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 00:18    Post subject:  
I've been busy elsewhere and missed much of this, thankfully. However I will throw in a few comments.

Quote:
Ecomoney thinks he has found a "mission" for himself in promoting low-cost computing for the unfortunate masses.

Having helped out such organisations myself with computing using Puppy, I can understand the warm feeling you get when everything goes well with the installation(s).

However, let's not become self-satisfied about all this. What we have here is a distro forum that deals with a hobbyist OS. People give of their time and energy simply because they get get a kick out of their hobby - nothing more than that. The words "mission" and "hobby" mean two entirely different things.


This point seems to be at the center of the dispute, beyond the usual personal incompatibilities.

First, I don't understand why anyone would criticize ecomoney for his self-selected mission. Yeah, maybe it's not your thing, but why sneer at him for doing it?

Is it bad for Puppy to be at least reasonably popular? At least reasonably useful for "the masses"? The world of computing is liberally strewn with the corpses of software that was only meant to be for hobbyists.

I can see the other side too. Obviously the developers need to retain interest in what they are doing.

To me, the solution seems to be pretty simple.

For those in ecomoney's shoes, test the new release. If it's pretty close, lobby for some simple fixes. If you are ignored, go back to recommending the old release for your customers. It's what I do. I've skipped many a release because the "new" was not better, at least on my hardware, than the "old". Don't get offended if people don't take your advice for a fix. And go read Dale Carnegie's book (I'm serious) if you would like your suggestions to have a better reception.

For the "hobbyists", well, this forum and this distro is simply NOT just for hobbyists. You ought to make a reasonable accommodation with people who actually want to use Puppy without knowing much about the internals. We don't really ask for much. A release now and then just for bug fixes, without flashy new features, just to keep us around and on board. One where the major applications actually work. Is that so hard?
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 01:06    Post subject:  

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trio


Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1786
Location: अनुमोदना
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 01:35    Post subject:  
ecomoney

now, that's more like it! your words is now polite and nice....keep it up, may your goals come true in a nicer way...
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