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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
Who's in charge?
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tronkel


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 1053
Location: Vienna Austria
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 15:22    Post subject:  
I'm just sitting here reflecting on my latest tirades concerning Ecomoney and his "evangelism".

On thinking about it, this missionary approach is actually very common-place with members of this community. Ecomoney is by no means the only one here to indulge in this type of thing. I've done it myself. Every last one of has has probably at one point tried to evangelise Puppy to some poor captive audience or other. It must really irritate people at times.

Richard Stallman and even Linus himself have at some point overstepped the mark with well-meaning but ill-advised over-enthusiasm. Also, people here tend to take every possible opportunity to deride Microsoft and Bill Gates as well. None of the foregoing activities really help anyone at the end of the day. The are all a form of negativity (if there is such a word).

Should us Puppians not be setting a better example here for others to follow?

Puppy Linux will not be furthered by this evangelistic or strident missionary approach. Linux and Puppy Linux does not require evangelising in any form at all. The software itself is all the evangelising it needs.

Much better to keep evangelism to a bare minimum and give the developers a chance to build the Pup that will do the business for everyone - Ecomoney included.
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sikpuppy


Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 433
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 16:49    Post subject:  
tronkel wrote:
Also, people here tend to take every possible opportunity to deride Microsoft and Bill Gates as well.


Yeah, the world's richest college drop-out. Talk about an over-achiever Razz
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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 17:11    Post subject:  
Just my 2 cents.
If too many developers in the council have too much to say, I am afraid puppy/woof turns into a technical hype and that end-users will turn away from it.
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Trobin

Joined: 18 Aug 2005
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Location: BC Canada
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 17:24    Post subject:  
tronkel wrote:

Should us Puppians not be setting a better example here for others to follow?


Why? Since it's so much more fun to air out dirty laundry in public. If newbies read it and wander off to friendlier climes, are they worthy enough to be puppians?
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bugman


Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Location: buffalo commons
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 17:53    Post subject:  
Trobin wrote:
tronkel wrote:

Should us Puppians not be setting a better example here for others to follow?


Why? Since it's so much more fun to air out dirty laundry in public. If newbies read it and wander off to friendlier climes, are they worthy enough to be puppians?


judging from what i've seen in some other distro forums, puppy is not unique in having developer spats

it may be rare however, in that no one has been banned from the forum for fighting, or thrown off the team

we fight, but we do not kick anyone out of the pack

[that IS our better example]
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 18:22    Post subject:  
Quote:
Puppy Linux will not be furthered by this evangelistic or strident missionary approach


Hmmmm.....maybe your not wrong..maybe I could do it better....Ive learnt I definitely can, and Im sorry one more time for all the uncomfortable reading Ive caused. Ive learnt.

And the fact remains...

Ive got about a hundred computers in my smallish average town running puppy right now (there I go bragging again)....but no one else, to my knowledge, has ever claimed such a number of "confirmed kills" on here.....all without ever having produced a single .pet/sfs or compiled one program from source. Im setting up another cybercafe now that will give feedback on people from all over the world (its at the UK's biggest seaport)

I had to make some pretty big compromises to Whodos altogether less troublesome 2.15CE to achieve that. (I dont think hes actually had time to see yet, though he has commented). Even Ttuxxx has lead the way with a recent real life example of how evengelism can be successful,

And some of you dont want me to stick around and see what I have to say? I mean, I thought you guys actually WANTED other people to use your stuff, I just thought you didnt know how to get them to want to use it too... Rolling Eyes
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 18:35    Post subject:  
here's my take on it Rob....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImPLzpRByWo&feature=related

Wink Very Happy

Aitch Smile
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 18:38    Post subject:  
bugman wrote:
we fight, but we do not kick anyone out of the pack

[that IS our better example]

Conflict is a sign of passion. We are each passionate about many different things but we share our passion for Puppy. Let us NEVER lose the passion for Puppy.

As for our other passions, it is important for each and every one of us to remember that those are NOT necessarily shared by others here. We also need to respect that others are not always going to be infected by our other passions in quite the same way as we are. Let them be.

Our developers seldom fight amongst themselves, which is a great tribute to them because at times their vision is not shared and they must find other ways to express it. MU does it with Muppy. NathanF did it with Grafpup. Pizzasgood did it with Pizzapup and helped a non-developer share his vision with PCPuppyOS. ecomoney has adapted 2.15CE as Ecopup. ttuuxxx did it with Fire Hydrant, Living Water and Puppies-4.2. The list goes on.

If others don't share your vision and passion, then find a way to make it real yourself rather than trying to "evangelise" others, as tronkel says. That's the best way to get them to catch the dream.

@bugman - for the sake of accuracy, there have been two or three people excluded from the pack by John Murga. That took a LOT of fighting (and back biting) to provoke though. Thankfully such circumstances are extremely rare. 14,000+ registered forum users and only 2-3 exclusions ... ever! Your point is well proven.

@tronkel - there is nothing wrong with your command of the less than logical English language. There is indeed a word "negativity". I'd also add that your "positivity" has been very refreshing around here!
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 2943
Location: Sydney Australia
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 18:43    Post subject:  
" Hey, you know, i've said good things to you in the past.."

This is why the edit button is handy.
Please find same and delete your threat.

Thought I was talking at my mirror for a moment.

Chris.
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7019
Location: qld
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 19:05    Post subject:  
cthisbear wrote:

Thought I was talking at my mirror for a moment.

Chris.


Which part? The quoted part... or the whole post? Laughing
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4636
Location: Manila
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 19:10    Post subject: path  
@tronkel and ttuuxxx: Woof indeed is new, and for a while I was thinking that you are beating a new woof-y path of building dpup. The 4.* series is still open, and perhaps the dpup you've hand-made will make it in the series? (same comment for big_bass' slaxerpup.)

@ecomoney: The forum is for sharing ideas and not for asking/challenging another member. By all means tell us what you think to be the right answers to your own questions. Then everyone would feel better.
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bugman


Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Location: buffalo commons
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 19:40    Post subject:  
WhoDo wrote:

@bugman - for the sake of accuracy, there have been two or three people excluded from the pack by John Murga. That took a LOT of fighting (and back biting) to provoke though. Thankfully such circumstances are extremely rare. 14,000+ registered forum users and only 2-3 exclusions ... ever! Your point is well proven.


if one of those was shroomy bee, then you'll have to re-consider your definition of the term 'people'

Rolling Eyes Laughing

edited to add that what i meant was less the banning of public nuisances and more something along the line of the ugly incidents at dsl and that other distro that schismed a few weeks ago [?]
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6861
Location: Perth, Western Australia
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 21:50    Post subject:  
ttuuxxx wrote:
Well Tronkel I'm compiling up the firefox 3.0.10 package right now, I've chosen that one over the 3.5 beta well because its a beta, lol
So i'll have my work cutout for me tonight and maybe some tomorrow, its getting late, So Thats my gift to Upup, if its just as quick as on Dpup, I might stick with Upup, but if it isn't, bye bye Upup and Hello Dpup.
ttuuxxx

ttuuxx,
I don't know of any particular reason why Dpup should be faster for you. As I've commented before, Lenny and Jaunty are incredibly similar.

However, there may be a discernable difference due to the different Xorgs. I'm not sure, maybe some accelerated Xorg DRI driver got into the Debian build but not in the Ubuntu build...

...I'm just having a quick look in woof/dpup/xorg_base/ and woof/dpup/xserver_xorg/ ...not sure, would have to compare with what is in woof/upup/xorg_base and xsrver_xorg.

Anyway, they should be essentially identical in terms of speed.
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hillside


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 642
Location: Minnesota, USA. The frozen north.
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 22:35    Post subject:  
Quote:
One suggestion might be to assign a single delegate for each of the key areas on the forum


This is a good idea, but I think this may result in too large of a group. I generally like the idea of some kind of a council overseeing Puppy development, but I would warn against having a council that is overly large.

My guess would be that the group that makes the final decisions should be no more than 3 to 5 people. I would also recommend not having any kind of dictator, benevolent or not, who can veto the wishes of the group. I think you would be better off having an odd number of people in the group, always strive for consensus, but in cases where consensus is impossible, the majority rules. That way, more than one person is always making the final decision and no single individual can be "blamed".

(I know. Single individual is redundant. I felt the need for emphasis.)
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia
PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2009, 22:41    Post subject:  
sullysat wrote:
I also have a variety of old hardware that I can set up and test things on if necessary.

Now THAT will come in very handy in my new role, sullysat. If you don't mind I may call on you, via PM, when the need arises.

sullysat wrote:
Finally, I teach computer networking and maintenance at a local college here. I recently began exposing my students to the possibilities of Linux operating systems. There are three new Puppy users out there because of the people in this forum. I don't know who you are, but I know you're out there and I appreciate your willingness to help.

Way to go, sullysat. Changing the world one mind at a time by offering a simple choice is a great way to do things.
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