[Issue]Woof "colourscheme" makes monitor appear "broken"

This is where you post about usability issues (not bugs) in pre-release versions of Puppy 5.x (alphas, betas, rcs). Usability issues are things like poor contrast in the themes, non-ergonomic button layouts, unintuitive application behavior, etc.
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ecomoney
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#106 Post by ecomoney »

@ James C

Did I say Puppy was bad?

I said wrote about how puppy could be (very easily) improved.

Why arnt you coding? The glory could be yours....

@ Whodo

Quote me the bit again where I call you a nob/elvis/terrorist/bully... :shock:
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#107 Post by WhoDo »

ecomoney wrote:...
:roll:
[i]Actions speak louder than words ... and they usually work when words don't![/i]
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DaveS
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#108 Post by DaveS »

This could be fun. How about this one:
ecomoney wrote:The usual crap........
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#109 Post by DaveS »

Or this:
ecomoney wrote:A really helpful solution that helped puppy move forward
8)
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#110 Post by WhoDo »

DaveS wrote:This could be fun. How about this one:
ecomoney wrote:The usual crap........
Hmmmm.... looks better than mine. May I use it next time? :P

I refrained from mentioning that 2.14 Talking Stick was already 2 years in the making, and its still in Alpha1. Now there's a real project management exemplar for you. :wink:

I wonder if he's counting on ttuuxxx to support 2.14 since he points to ttuuxxx's revision of 2.14X as an example of things "still going strong"? Now that would be an interesting conversation! :shock:
DaveS wrote:Or this:
ecomoney wrote: A really helpful solution that helped puppy move forward
:cool:
:lol: :lol: :lol: You're a bigger optimist than me!!!
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#111 Post by WhoDo »

DaveS wrote:Oh dear Lord, its 7.00 am here in the UK. Gird up everybody, prepare yourselves for another A4 side of drivel....................
Sorry, Dave, but you were wrong. It turned out not to be A4 but Foolscap! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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#112 Post by DaveS »

WhoDo wrote:
DaveS wrote:Oh dear Lord, its 7.00 am here in the UK. Gird up everybody, prepare yourselves for another A4 side of drivel....................
Sorry, Dave, but you were wrong. It turned out not to be A4 but Foolscap! :lol: :lol: :lol:
FoolsCRAP?
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#113 Post by ecomoney »

Come on then hotshot! :lol:

Instead of just "hanging with the usual posse", trying to bring down those who are passing back real-world feedback and suggestions for improving Puppy, why not put some of your ideas/strategy for improving it for the future? How (apart from its looks) does 4.2.x better meet Puppies Mission?

Regarding Talking stick...yes I had a delay (you know why), and Im going to delay it as long as it takes to get it right...and tested. Not rush it out without testing the new word-processor/printing system.

P.S. Youve really offended Sophie, Im not sure she will return to testing the kids software now.
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#114 Post by ttuuxxx »

Hi WhoDo hows it going?

As for my support for 2.14.2X well when I'm finished, hopefully real soon, I'll hand over the Iso, the updated devx, and then I'm running far far away from it, lol I really just want to focus on Dpup, but Barry hasn't done much with it since like alpha 3, at least he's posted nothing on his developers blog, and alpha 3 had a buggy devx and the kernel needed patches. I could manage with the devx. But others will be able to compile apps for 2.14.2X
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#115 Post by WhoDo »

ecomoney wrote:The usual foolscrap...
Did I get that right, Dave? :lol:
ecomoney wrote:P.S. Youve really offended Sophie, Im not sure she will return to testing the kids software now.
Oh, wow! I think I'll take poison, stab myself and hang by the neck from the nearest rafter! :roll:

Seriously, don't you think you're at least a LITTLE BIT RESPONSIBLE for putting the poor girl in the middle of YOUR dispute? Oh, sorry, I forgot ... It's always, ALWAYS someone else's fault [ecomoney's law]

We now have EIGHT pages of crap, started by YOU, simply because you couldn't resist putting an Alpha release of upup in front of a 19 year old babysitter and then egging her on to express her dismay about how she thought the monitor must have been broken! And you have the stones to call that "real world feedback"? C'mon, Cyril! Even you can't be THAT DUMB! All you had to say was "It was my mistake, Sophie. That was a test version deliberately set up that way so everyone would know it was still in testing." What a maroon! [Bug's Bunny - I thought you'd appreciate a reference you could understand!]
Last edited by WhoDo on Mon 08 Jun 2009, 13:40, edited 1 time in total.
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#116 Post by WhoDo »

ttuuxxx wrote:As for my support for 2.14.2X well when I'm finished, hopefully real soon, I'll hand over the Iso, the updated devx, and then I'm running far far away from it, lol
Aw, gee, ttuuxxx. You mean you're NOT going to finish Talking Stick for ecomoney? How's he supposed to get it done, then? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't worry. Barry is about to release 2.18 with a whole slew of updated packages. Watch as ecomoney rebrands it to Ecopup-TalkingStick-ScunnyPup1 and releases it with a few new icons and wallpapers! The gang in Scunthorpe will be suitably awed, I'm sure! :roll: Heck, it might even come out in time for Puppy-9.xx to follow up! :P
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#117 Post by ttuuxxx »

WhoDo wrote:
ttuuxxx wrote:As for my support for 2.14.2X well when I'm finished, hopefully real soon, I'll hand over the Iso, the updated devx, and then I'm running far far away from it, lol
Aw, gee, ttuuxxx. You mean you're NOT going to finish Talking Stick for ecomoney? How's he supposed to get it done, then? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't worry. Barry is about to release 2.18 with a whole slew of updated packages. Watch as ecomoney rebrands it to Ecopup-TalkingStick-ScunnyPup1 and releases it with a few new icons and wallpapers! The gang in Scunthorpe will be suitably awed, I'm sure! :roll: Heck, it might even come out in time for Puppy-9.xx to follow up! :P
Naaa I'm not finishing it, but, anyone who wanted to could really easy once I'm finished, just add the extra updated driver packages, use the latest icewm & Gimp I already posted, add a touch of bling, maybe pwidgets, give it a shake and boom you have "Taking stick", lol, I also had the desktop icon switch working really well from 4 series on 2 series, it took a lot of work, but boy it switched quickly, maybe 2.5 seconds. But I was running live and messing with xinitrc and well I restarted xserver and it froze on "out of range" lol
So I'm not doing that again, lol
ttuuxxx
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#118 Post by rjbrewer »

The pie chart is nice......except for the colors.

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#119 Post by ecomoney »

whodo wrote:...
Great stuff Ttuuxxx, thanks for your skills updating 2.14r. I am looking forward to taking a look at that, and puppy 2.18, and all of the derivatives/packages people have made for two series. Together with the updated scripts, plus a few more to be created that will address some of Puppies major usability/installation issues, this is going to make one hell of a "Community Edition", with a real focus on Puppies Mission and the needs of the average computer user. Were going to have plenty of time set aside for testing (using the mission cybercafe too!), so any issues left over Ttuuxxx we can work out through the alpha/beta process. Make sure you document well when you release what still needs work, and what work you have done.....any news on the updated NTFS drivers? I might even push myself to learn to compile in time for Phoenix.

Anyway, no Sophie offered to come on and confirm what she said, as there was some disbelief that she had actually said what she had. I hadnt asked her to test Woof explicitly, she just happened to walk in while I was taking a quick look at it.

Personally Im all for putting end users in front of Alpha/Beta software, or else how are the big problems to them ever to be discovered. If you test linux on linux experts then only the parts they use are going to work. A similar thing happened when 4.2.0 was released and it was found the wordprocessor couldnt open M$ Word Documents......rxvt worked fine though :wink:

Anyway, as for Woof (which this section is about), well Im not making any decisions...but I ADVISE, that an attractive colourful layout will do much to attract new users to it....that, shallow though our more hersuit/technical contributors may believe it to be, is human nature.
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#120 Post by ttuuxxx »

ecomoney wrote:shallow though our more hersuit/technical contributors may believe it to be, is human nature.
I don't remember if I updated the NTFS drivers or not, I did compile them, I'll just do them again, its nothing anyways, Yes you should learn to compile, there's lots of doc on the forum about it, plus Barry's blog is a good place to look, almost nothing compiles properly these days with ./configure usually its a full line, or if your talking about Seamonkey, thats almost a full page,lol But you have to start somewhere, better sooner or later, I would say after about 6 months of compiling you'll have a clue on whats going on, Some things are easy and some drive you nuts, sometimes you actually have to compile in a separate folder. The you get stuff like cmake, imake, etc its all fun.
ttuuxxx lol
Last edited by ttuuxxx on Tue 09 Jun 2009, 02:06, edited 1 time in total.
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#121 Post by James C »

Egomoney.......errrr...Ecomoney,

First, not everyone is looking for glory.......

Second, it appears that, according to you, basically everything about Puppy needs improved........it only leads to the conclusion that Puppy is bad.Why else create a thread over the wallpaper in an Alpha testing release?Why may a "bug" out of every little usability issue?

Third, there is no problem in having people test alpha or beta software.....if it is made clear that it is for testing, not intended for daily use and not feature complete.It provides a bad impression of Puppy, or any product, to throw it out in public with no explanation as to its development status.

I've not personally attacked you, just your tactics. Yet you go after anyone and everyone who disagrees with you.

You are not any more or less important than any other Puppy user, just more annoying.

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#122 Post by ecomoney »

The above graph, when Puppy came out in 2003, would have shown a majority of windows 98 machines, instead of XP, and windows 2000's market share would have probably been comparable to Vista's now (I cant find any stats from this period). It all would have been grey. XP is now the predominant operating system (for as much a M$ is trying to force Vista on people).

Ive found from teaching that people are much more receptive to learning new things if they are somewhere that is comfortable, and that they are in a calm frame of mind, and they are using things that look at least semi-familiar......

Using Barry's origional Philosophy when he started Puppy Linux but updated to todays operating system landscape, the best choice would be a plain blue/green colourscheme, reminiscent of the operating system that people are used to/have come from.

For clarification, the conversation went something like this
Rob wrote:"Hi Sophie"
Sophie wrote:"Hi Rob"
Rob wrote:"Hi Sophie"
Sophie wrote:"Whats the matter with that, is the monitor broken?"
Rob wrote:"(Laughs)Yes I was thinking it looked a bit grey...its the testing version of the next Puppy thats coming out"
Sophie wrote:"Well they want to be doing something about that, it looks well boring
Rob wrote:"I will report it to them, you are an software tester now after what you did on HanSamBen (wink)
@ James C

Im working on not responding to personal attacks, obviously as a tester I need to put possible improvements in a more dispassionate way so as not to knock people pride in their work....thats taken on board. Im not sure I "go after" people who do disagree with me, I certainly dont know of anyone on this forum who's taken as many flames as me...goes with the job I suppose to some extent.

Not everyone is looking for "glory" no....and not everyone is doing it just for themselves either. There are many things about Puppy/Linux generally that "need" to be changed if it is to become a much more widely used operating system. Probably the most important one Ive seen for Puppy, from the feedback from the people around me I have shown it to, is its default presentation/theme....also the easiest one to fix.
You are not any more or less important than any other Puppy user, just more annoying.
Yes, it would be useful to see who Puppies users actually are...hopefully most of the people in the big blue bit on the pie chart above. I agree Im annoying, but Im not here to make friends, Im here to work on and improve Puppy Linux....and Im confident that my experience through my work, and the exposure to actual "Linux Newbies", has given me a more accurate idea of what needs to be improved to make Puppy more popular than a hobbyist coder....not that they arnt important too.

@ Ttuuxxxx

SIX MONTHS!!!! :shock: :o
1. Extremely difficult to install without in depth linux knowledge
2. Lack of the most popular applications available through the installer (FF, OO, aMSN,Skype)
3. Looks "old", Grey Win98 look/console loading/Xorg config is unattractive to new users.
4. Pup_save.2fs fills up, without resizing automatically.
5. Java does not install automatically to support things like facebook chat/ebay.
6. The internet connection wizard is unintuitive, and does not open automatically when needed (i.e. opening Seamonkey with no active Connection)
7. Single click on the desktop creates unfamiliar first impression.
8. Mousewheel over desktop make applications "appear" to crash.
9. Mime Types are incomplete + unhelpful errors if filetypes are not supported.
10. File system difficult to navigate/filemanger unfamiliar to new users
Perhaps it would be better to learn BASH/GTK scripting first if Im to tackle some of the problems above....and leave the compiling to you. :wink:

Thanks for doing the NTFS drivers.....you can see from the pie chart above the need for it.
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#123 Post by raffy »

As ecomoney.co.uk is down, I guess this Facebook page is a good substitute for proving what ecomoney has been claiming:
ecomoney - Puppy Linux (the project for which we are managing the next community edition) is featured in the National Telegraph!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected/ma ... boot12.xml
October 9, 2008 at 10:48am
Is this the community edition that came out of it? Oh, why were you explaining about bugs when you released it?
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#124 Post by ecomoney »

Nope, Phoenix was just a codename for that alpha release of Ecopup, a puplet I created. It was before I had considered returning to finish Phoenix CE, the official

What exactly needs to be "proved" Raffy? To what do I stand accused? Manage/co-ordinate/lead developer...it is all the same thing...there are no set roles in Open Source. I might use one word on my website and another on here, because the readership is aimed at different people. Just like I might use "linux based operating system with automatic hardware configuration" to one person and "free and just works with no viruses" to another.
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#125 Post by DaveS »

Hey all.........you might also like to take a look at this thread:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=43347
It kinda reads like a personal agenda to me, and a bad one at that!
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