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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Next Puppy Development » 5.x » Usability Issues (5.x dev)
[Issue]Woof "colourscheme" makes monitor appear "broken"
Moderators: BarryK, Lobster
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5722
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Mon 08 Jun 2009, 14:04    Post_subject:  

Egomoney.......errrr...Ecomoney,

First, not everyone is looking for glory.......

Second, it appears that, according to you, basically everything about Puppy needs improved........it only leads to the conclusion that Puppy is bad.Why else create a thread over the wallpaper in an Alpha testing release?Why may a "bug" out of every little usability issue?

Third, there is no problem in having people test alpha or beta software.....if it is made clear that it is for testing, not intended for daily use and not feature complete.It provides a bad impression of Puppy, or any product, to throw it out in public with no explanation as to its development status.

I've not personally attacked you, just your tactics. Yet you go after anyone and everyone who disagrees with you.

You are not any more or less important than any other Puppy user, just more annoying.
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Mon 08 Jun 2009, 16:02    Post_subject:  

The above graph, when Puppy came out in 2003, would have shown a majority of windows 98 machines, instead of XP, and windows 2000's market share would have probably been comparable to Vista's now (I cant find any stats from this period). It all would have been grey. XP is now the predominant operating system (for as much a M$ is trying to force Vista on people).

Ive found from teaching that people are much more receptive to learning new things if they are somewhere that is comfortable, and that they are in a calm frame of mind, and they are using things that look at least semi-familiar......

Using Barry's origional Philosophy when he started Puppy Linux but updated to todays operating system landscape, the best choice would be a plain blue/green colourscheme, reminiscent of the operating system that people are used to/have come from.

For clarification, the conversation went something like this

Rob wrote:
"Hi Sophie"

Sophie wrote:
"Hi Rob"

Rob wrote:
"Hi Sophie"

Sophie wrote:
"Whats the matter with that, is the monitor broken?"

Rob wrote:
"(Laughs)Yes I was thinking it looked a bit grey...its the testing version of the next Puppy thats coming out"

Sophie wrote:
"Well they want to be doing something about that, it looks well boring

Rob wrote:
"I will report it to them, you are an software tester now after what you did on HanSamBen (wink)


@ James C

Im working on not responding to personal attacks, obviously as a tester I need to put possible improvements in a more dispassionate way so as not to knock people pride in their work....thats taken on board. Im not sure I "go after" people who do disagree with me, I certainly dont know of anyone on this forum who's taken as many flames as me...goes with the job I suppose to some extent.

Not everyone is looking for "glory" no....and not everyone is doing it just for themselves either. There are many things about Puppy/Linux generally that "need" to be changed if it is to become a much more widely used operating system. Probably the most important one Ive seen for Puppy, from the feedback from the people around me I have shown it to, is its default presentation/theme....also the easiest one to fix.

Quote:
You are not any more or less important than any other Puppy user, just more annoying.


Yes, it would be useful to see who Puppies users actually are...hopefully most of the people in the big blue bit on the pie chart above. I agree Im annoying, but Im not here to make friends, Im here to work on and improve Puppy Linux....and Im confident that my experience through my work, and the exposure to actual "Linux Newbies", has given me a more accurate idea of what needs to be improved to make Puppy more popular than a hobbyist coder....not that they arnt important too.

@ Ttuuxxxx

SIX MONTHS!!!! Shocked Surprised

Quote:
1. Extremely difficult to install without in depth linux knowledge
2. Lack of the most popular applications available through the installer (FF, OO, aMSN,Skype)
3. Looks "old", Grey Win98 look/console loading/Xorg config is unattractive to new users.
4. Pup_save.2fs fills up, without resizing automatically.
5. Java does not install automatically to support things like facebook chat/ebay.
6. The internet connection wizard is unintuitive, and does not open automatically when needed (i.e. opening Seamonkey with no active Connection)
7. Single click on the desktop creates unfamiliar first impression.
8. Mousewheel over desktop make applications "appear" to crash.
9. Mime Types are incomplete + unhelpful errors if filetypes are not supported.
10. File system difficult to navigate/filemanger unfamiliar to new users


Perhaps it would be better to learn BASH/GTK scripting first if Im to tackle some of the problems above....and leave the compiling to you. Wink

Thanks for doing the NTFS drivers.....you can see from the pie chart above the need for it.

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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4765
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Tue 09 Jun 2009, 11:07    Post_subject: site down  

As ecomoney.co.uk is down, I guess this Facebook page is a good substitute for proving what ecomoney has been claiming:
Quote:
ecomoney - Puppy Linux (the project for which we are managing the next community edition) is featured in the National Telegraph!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected/main.jhtml?xml=/connected/2007/11/12/ecrboot12.xml
October 9, 2008 at 10:48am


Is this the community edition that came out of it? Oh, why were you explaining about bugs when you released it?
Quote:
Known bugs

Transmission will often crash if left running for long periods. The workaround is to minimise it
Updates do not work in Frostwire, check “thanks but not now” when starting.
Frostwire and Firefox file locations are set within the pup_save file, rather than outside it. They should be set to /mnt/home/shared and /mnt/home/downloads respectively
Eth0 does not automatically connect at startup

Others...to be discovered


Not that I enjoy writing this, but I say "Enough!" to your insistence in wasting people's time in this forum by your posturings as Puppy's "savior". (Although I must admit I find some amusement now and then - too bad I don't have a beard yet. Laughing )
quote-ecomoney_manages_puppyCE.jpg
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quote-ecomoney_manages_puppyCE.jpg


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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Tue 09 Jun 2009, 15:22    Post_subject:  

Nope, Phoenix was just a codename for that alpha release of Ecopup, a puplet I created. It was before I had considered returning to finish Phoenix CE, the official

What exactly needs to be "proved" Raffy? To what do I stand accused? Manage/co-ordinate/lead developer...it is all the same thing...there are no set roles in Open Source. I might use one word on my website and another on here, because the readership is aimed at different people. Just like I might use "linux based operating system with automatic hardware configuration" to one person and "free and just works with no viruses" to another.

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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 09 Jun 2009, 15:33    Post_subject:  

Hey all.........you might also like to take a look at this thread:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=43347
It kinda reads like a personal agenda to me, and a bad one at that!

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue 09 Jun 2009, 17:12    Post_subject:  

DaveS wrote:
Hey all.........you might also like to take a look at this thread:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=43347
It kinda reads like a personal agenda to me, and a bad one at that!

Or this one if you prefer ... that's the third time the post has appeared in different threads. Not only is that lazy commentary, it's also very poor forum etiquette!

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=43243&start=15

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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Tue 09 Jun 2009, 18:35    Post_subject:  

The more trolls are fed, the stronger they grow.
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3195
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Tue 09 Jun 2009, 20:46    Post_subject:  

Very Happy
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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jun 2009, 01:38    Post_subject:  

People judge others by their own standards...

Ive fixed that problem (myself) at the testing centre Ive set up (at cost to myself) for my own "personal agenda".

FYI I reposted the above information there because the points I made are more directly relevant to that new thread than this one which has drifted widely off topic....from "puppy needs an attractive colourscheme" to "Ecomoney is an up-himself troll".....if anyone wishes to see some prime examples of bad forum/open source ettiquette and trolling they dont have to read very far from this post! It also needs some consideration from a wider audience rather than in this context. I dont know where the third such occurance you mention is.

Look guys...Im not here to make friends, Im here to report back problems that end users have issues with, and to find developers who wish to solve those problems (of which there is no shortage). If the changes that need making are not to your own personal preferences as computer experts then you have the skills and experience to remaster it to EXACTLY how you prefer it.

The main Puppy release should aim to fulfil its mission statement (which I wont post yet again, as it at least seems to be remembered about now). The "top ten issues" are ones that have been found out with real world observation of linux newbies (not linux experts).

I seem to be one of the few people actually doing this kind of research, and giving some serious thought to how Puppy might better achieve its objectives. Instead of sitting around grumbling about those changes and "shooting the messenger" do some real world research of your own. That way you would see for yourself where puppy needs improving. Im happy to debate any intelligent point you have to make. Its easy to sit on the sidelines and shout "troll", less easy to do any better yourself.

@ Whodo, a casual observer might think your still smarting about me holding you to account (as project co-ordinator) for including an untested Wordprocessor/Printing System in puppy 4.2.0. Get over it...a lot of good came from it....including the forum section your (mis) using now. If so your grudge comes more from the way you chose to accept the bug report ("let it sink to the bottom of the pond") as the admittedly imperfect way I reported it.

@ Raffy Ive read some of your write ups about the real world things you have done to promote Puppy....personally Ive thought "well done", not thought you are showing off in any way.

Why the hell am I wasting my time continuing to post on this thread with all its negativity? My companies books need doing, its website revamping, Ecopup to test, research doing, a new installer to test etc etc.

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10747
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jun 2009, 02:50    Post_subject:  

All I know guys, while You've been here slapping each other silly, I managed to take 2.14.1R update the back end so much now it even has glibC-2.5 and runs FF3 perfect and Flash 10 Perfect, plus it uses most of series 4 and almost all series 3 applications and the divx is actually working:)
hmmmmmmm lets think about it, sit around and shoot bricks at each other or move on and get stuff done, Wink
ttuuxxx

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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jun 2009, 04:04    Post_subject:  

ttuuxxx wrote:
All I know guys, while You've been here slapping each other silly, I managed to take 2.14.1R update the back end so much now it even has glibC-2.5 and runs FF3 perfect and Flash 10 Perfect, plus it uses most of series 4 and almost all series 3 applications and the divx is actually working:)
hmmmmmmm lets think about it, sit around and shoot bricks at each other or move on and get stuff done, Wink
ttuuxxx


Duck the bricks and get stuff done!

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jun 2009, 05:15    Post_subject:  

ecomoney wrote:
Look guys...Im not here to make friends,

Well at least you're successful at that!

ecomoney wrote:
Im here to report back problems that end users have issues with, and to find developers who wish to solve those problems (of which there is no shortage).

Not what you claimed in this post!

ecomoney wrote:
I seem to be one of the few people actually doing this kind of research, and giving some serious thought to how Puppy might better achieve its objectives.

Not true. There are many members of the community doing exactly that, but being more than a bit less self-congratulatory about it!

ecomoney wrote:
@ Whodo, a casual observer might think your still smarting about me holding you to account (as project co-ordinator) for including an untested Wordprocessor/Printing System in puppy 4.2.0.

YOU? Holding ME to account? You pompous little pr!@& ... I'm not accountable to YOU, and I never have been! I'm accountable to myself and, because I choose to be, the puppy community. YOU are NOT the puppy community. You barely have a toehold on it!

I have no problems with ANY decisions I took in coordinating 4.2 and 4.2.1, and I am thoroughly sick and tired of you and your smarmy attitude f#@&!%$ up my Puppy experience with such accusations!

ecomoney wrote:
Get over it...a lot of good came from it....including the forum section your (mis) using now. If so your grudge comes more from the way you chose to accept the bug report ("let it sink to the bottom of the pond") as the admittedly imperfect way I reported it.

You have no idea HOW I "chose to accept the bug report"! You're STILL making unfounded assumptions and accusations and I for one have had enough of them and YOU! It takes a lot to get me angry, but you seem to have the market on how to do that pretty much cornered! I hope it gives you plenty of satisfaction because as of now you are BACK IN COVENTRY with me! It'll be a cold day in HELL before I let you back out, pr@#&.

ecomoney wrote:
Why the hell am I wasting my time continuing to post on this thread with all its negativity? My companies books need doing, its website revamping, Ecopup to test, research doing, a new installer to test etc etc.

Easy ... because it's not YOUR time you're wasting, it's OURS! Ecopup, eh? Is that the one where you rebadged 2.15CE with a few superficial changes and claimed it as your own, or the one you claimed to raffy that you were talking about when you used the term Phoenix, which actually applies to the CE project you stuffed up 2 years ago? Crawl back under your Scunny coal grate, take your lies and fabrications with you and leave the rest of us in peace FFS!

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bugman


Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2131
Location: buffalo commons

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jun 2009, 08:00    Post_subject:  

egomoney wrote:
Look guys...Im not here to make friends


MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

how does dividing the puppy community, and pissing off the developers, help ANYONE

your beloved newbies, coming to this forum for help, must think we've all got rabies

sadly it's all due to one case of misguided self-importance . . .

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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5722
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jun 2009, 13:22    Post_subject:  

Ecomoney is nothing if not predictable.

I knew that pretty chart would show up all over the forum , and it did.He complains about an alpha wallpaper and, miracle of miracles, his babysitter appears to back him up.

What has all this accomplished.........nothing.
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gabe

Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 85
Location: Minnesota, USA

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jun 2009, 15:38    Post_subject:  

Quote:
Open Source developers do NOT like being "organised" by anyone to do anything! Simple.

Well said!

I don't like it when people get sad or angry. Sad I'm sorry everyone. It's partly my fault, too--I couldn't stop this quarrel from taking place.

Why is there so much tension between ecomoney and WhoDo? Or is it a lot more complicated than that? I think you should call each other up and have a real heart to heart. Maybe we all should go on chat and fix all of these problems. I don't like drama. That is my subjective opinion. I'm sorry if it offends anyone. I just want to say that I wish everyone would hold hands and get along.

I feel for all of you guys. And everyone.
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