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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Classic Pup 2.14X -- Updated 2 series
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What is the best Puppy Version ever, LOL
2.14x
24%
 24%  [ 8 ]
2.14x
12%
 12%  [ 4 ]
2.14x
30%
 30%  [ 10 ]
Other: 2.14x only
33%
 33%  [ 11 ]
Total_votes : 33

Author Message
Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 1514

PostPosted: Mon 10 Mar 2014, 07:24    Post_subject:  

eternal-sunshine wrote:
Thanks Colonel, I'll give Legacy a try tomorrow. Incidentally I see you and Mikeb use hdX not sdX so I assume you are not using SATA discs. I wonder if that is why I am having these problems. I'll try on an older IDE based box tomorrow.
Thanks


That's right eternal (and you're welcome btw). It mightn't just be a case of the SATA hard drive with Legacy though; it doesn't seem to like newer computers full stop.

I couldn't even get it to boot from the CD when I was running my Dell Optiplex (Pentium 4, 3.4 Ghz, 2 MB of RAM).

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Stone Pentium IV (2.4 GHz), 2 GB of RAM, 160 GB hard drive running New Year's Pup 02, Puppy EmSee v2.2, Puppy 4.31 Workhorse, Puppy Carolina 1.2, Puppy Legacy OS2 LTS, Puppy Diamond 528_512 (full) and Puppy Upup Raring 3.9.9.2.
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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 1514

PostPosted: Mon 10 Mar 2014, 07:30    Post_subject:  

mikeb wrote:
Quote:
Mike, I'm curious to know what the advantage is of running Puppy 2.12 over, say, 2.14 (which can install petfiles)?

Erm nostalgia plus its the one I did most of my development on which has been added to later puppies.... 252 sfs file, load on the fly, sfs save option, save folder option, image save option, multiuser with gui login, ...plus did update the core a little to use newer firefox etc,, and a pile of hacked apps and scripts for slickness and convenience.
Pets...well i rarely use them as is but instead open with xarchive.
well you did ask... Very Happy

mike


Thanks for the info, and yes I did ask Smile I like the older JWM better than the newer one; the styles seem a lot nicer (peach, XP etc.).

But the main reason for my asking is that, bearing in mind that Puppies generally get lighter and less demanding of system resources the further back you go (and I'm using a thirteen year old computer), I'd like to find out how far back you can go and still have a Puppy which is useable in 2013.

Maybe I should start a thread on the subject?

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Stone Pentium IV (2.4 GHz), 2 GB of RAM, 160 GB hard drive running New Year's Pup 02, Puppy EmSee v2.2, Puppy 4.31 Workhorse, Puppy Carolina 1.2, Puppy Legacy OS2 LTS, Puppy Diamond 528_512 (full) and Puppy Upup Raring 3.9.9.2.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8257

PostPosted: Mon 10 Mar 2014, 07:53    Post_subject:  

Could do but its pretty quiet here Smile

Well puppy 1.08 works.... firefox 1.5 does hit a few snags on the internet dues to its limited ability to deal with the recent crap that exists there now.
2.02... similar restrictions really.
So 2.12 with a newer gtk2 allows FF 3.6 which still handles it in an acceptable fashion without decending into bloat land.

For daily use I have slax6/nimblex though 4.12 would be the equivalant and is currently the one I would use...Lucid is hiding in the wings.
Flash 10.1 rather than 10.3.... it downloads to /tmp which is handy at times.

ttuuxxx updated most of the core to at least 4.12 or beyond only leaving a limited 2.12 kernel which is ok for single core non sata systems which if thats what you are using its fine...thing is you might as well go for 4+ pups and enjoys a kernel that will support a recent wifi dongle for example. I prefer the all rounded slax kernels so use that on 4.12...never was happy with the retro pic n mix kernel approach.
Xorg is the other factor... 6.8 flew compared to 7+...kms seems to be a PITA for some systems...older nvidia comes to mind and some intel.
The X/xorg in 4.12 (7.3) I found to be a great stable allrounder at least for our gear including a 4 year old netbook. The problem with a monolithic xorg really...support for newer breaks support for older but thats a general linux problem.

As for JWM I hate it with a vengence and the first thing I do with any puppy is change it to a rox/xfce4 hybrid...nearly as light with none of the quirks or menu hacks.

again, you did ask

mike
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2560
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 10 Mar 2014, 13:59    Post_subject:  

Colonel Panic wrote:
Maybe I should start a thread on the subject?
That would make a very interesting thread. The more I use Puppy the more I realise that newer is sometimes better - but not always. Any puppy is a compromise between a setup that is truly lightweight, and a more longwinded setup that is more easily understood by those who are newcomers (without that compromise I wouldn't have been able to make much of a start with Linux...).

A thread that helped identify how to get the best of the old/fast stuff, combined with the most necessary of the new stuff would be very helpful indeed. It would be very technical of course - but it would be a resource of really interesting ideas. Mike - your post chucked in some good ideas that I'd like to try out. What would it take to persuade you to offer an iso?? Smile
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8257

PostPosted: Mon 10 Mar 2014, 14:58    Post_subject:  

Quote:
What would it take to persuade you to offer an iso??

a guarantee of your sanity and mine too...I have seen what happens to others lol.

Actually I have been twiddling with 4.12 (some full install fixes) and am in the middle of giving Lucid a once over ...operation rationalised driver handling and full install. 2.12 will probably stay in my museum as is, along with 2.02 and 1.08. In other words once done I will wrap up into fresh iso's and upload as I usually do.

Theres always something to fiddle with.... and new ideas pop up...one was a mksquashfs with fast compression for example... I feel the need to use it somewhere. Smile


mike
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2560
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 10 Mar 2014, 15:22    Post_subject:  

mikeb wrote:
a guarantee of your sanity

Oh. Ok, well I guess that rules that out then...
Smile
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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 1514

PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar 2014, 04:41    Post_subject:  

greengeek wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
Maybe I should start a thread on the subject?
That would make a very interesting thread. The more I use Puppy the more I realise that newer is sometimes better - but not always. Any puppy is a compromise between a setup that is truly lightweight, and a more longwinded setup that is more easily understood by those who are newcomers (without that compromise I wouldn't have been able to make much of a start with Linux...).

A thread that helped identify how to get the best of the old/fast stuff, combined with the most necessary of the new stuff would be very helpful indeed. It would be very technical of course - but it would be a resource of really interesting ideas. Mike - your post chucked in some good ideas that I'd like to try out. What would it take to persuade you to offer an iso?? Smile


Hi Greengeek,

Thanks for your reply and suggestion, but I agree with Mike on this one. It's one thing to remaster a Puplet for your own use, when you know what you want to do with it and what equipment it's going to be running on, and quite another to do the same for someone else who may have different interests, and tasks to perform, and will run it on different equipment; none of which you have any way of knowing in advance.

For example, I think John Biles does a fantastic job in getting Legacy up and running all on his own, but even so I've been unable to get Flash working in the browser of the latest one (Legacy 2.1 Gamer) and in the end I've had to give it up as a bad job and use an earlier one instead. I can't promise I'd do any better if I put a Puplet out there for others to use, indeed I'd most likely do worse.

What is a lot easier (and I do like doing) is making suggestions for software which will work with other people's Puppies - for example, Opera 11.11 works well in Turbo Extreme, and I'm a happy user of PortaBase, which fulfils all my needs for a simple database program and I'm sure would meet others' needs too.

_________________
Stone Pentium IV (2.4 GHz), 2 GB of RAM, 160 GB hard drive running New Year's Pup 02, Puppy EmSee v2.2, Puppy 4.31 Workhorse, Puppy Carolina 1.2, Puppy Legacy OS2 LTS, Puppy Diamond 528_512 (full) and Puppy Upup Raring 3.9.9.2.

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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2560
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar 2014, 05:20    Post_subject:  

Colonel Panic wrote:
for example, Opera 11.11 works well in Turbo Extreme, .

Would you have a link to the version of O11.11 that works with Turbopup? I was trying to get hold of one of Synths Opera pets from around that time but the links all seemed dead.
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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 1514

PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar 2014, 06:37    Post_subject:  

greengeek wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
for example, Opera 11.11 works well in Turbo Extreme, .

Would you have a link to the version of O11.11 that works with Turbopup? I was trying to get hold of one of Synths Opera pets from around that time but the links all seemed dead.


This one still works;

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=39444

which links to;

http://www.mediafire.com/download/ppq593qmabrbrr5/Opera-11.11.pet

I tried uploading it from my own collection of Puppy files but the forum software wouldn't allow it.

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Stone Pentium IV (2.4 GHz), 2 GB of RAM, 160 GB hard drive running New Year's Pup 02, Puppy EmSee v2.2, Puppy 4.31 Workhorse, Puppy Carolina 1.2, Puppy Legacy OS2 LTS, Puppy Diamond 528_512 (full) and Puppy Upup Raring 3.9.9.2.
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eternal-sunshine

Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar 2014, 16:37    Post_subject:  

mikeb wrote
Quote:
ttuuxxx updated most of the core to at least 4.12 or beyond only leaving a limited 2.12 kernel which is ok for single core non sata systems

So are you saying that 214X wouldn't work with sata drives? But from my experiments with a dual core sata system (see above) it did work when I could get it to boot.
Or are you saying its a boot issue with sata drives??
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8257

PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar 2014, 16:47    Post_subject:  

Ok to be more specific I have a atom dual core ITX board with sata drives and the 2.12 kernel DOES see them. Other SATA machines do not and my conclusion was Intel chipsets with SATA appear to work but others are unlikely...I assume they work in a more generic way and the others need specific drivers and/or kernel config. Its all in the dark mysteries of libata and not something I have detailed knowledge about.

To put it another way if you want to guarantee SATA support on any machine get a puppy with a 2.6.25.x or newer kernel. (note for that case you may lose EIDE support ..eg early pentium and similar.)

mike
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sheldonisaac

Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 421
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Sat 15 Mar 2014, 07:53    Post_subject:  

eternal-sunshine wrote:
Thanks Colonel, I'll give Legacy a try tomorrow. Incidentally I see you and Mikeb use hdX not sdX so I assume you are not using SATA discs. I wonder if that is why I am having these problems. I'll try on an older IDE based box tomorrow.
Thanks

I guess you mean where he says
Quote:

# Linux bootable partition config begins
title Linux (on /dev/hdc1)
root (hd0,0)

That always uses the hdX way , regardless of what kind the actual drive is.

But that's for 'regular' GRUB, eg GRUB 0.97 ,not for GRUB2.
Although I don't recall the reason given, it's been said that the latter is no 'better than the old GRUB.

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Dell E6410: Windows XP, LuPu Super 2 & various Puppys;Dell D610: Windows XP, Puppy Linux 5.2, 'lina-lite; Intel D865GBF: Windows XP, Puppy Linux 5.2;
Acer Aspire One: Windows XP, Puppy Linux 5.2; ASUS P5A: MS-Windows 98SE, Puppy Linux 2.14X
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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 1514

PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar 2014, 20:16    Post_subject:  

I've taken a tip from Mike and carried out a full install of an old (and possibly forgotten) version of Puppy, 2.10 Professional, to my hard drive. It's pretty in a retro sort of way (something I like about that generation of Puppies) and, although it's not quite as capable as one of the more recent generations of Puppy it's a heck of a lot quieter in operation, perhaps because the libraries are smaller and therefore don't need as many system resources to run properly.
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Stone Pentium IV (2.4 GHz), 2 GB of RAM, 160 GB hard drive running New Year's Pup 02, Puppy EmSee v2.2, Puppy 4.31 Workhorse, Puppy Carolina 1.2, Puppy Legacy OS2 LTS, Puppy Diamond 528_512 (full) and Puppy Upup Raring 3.9.9.2.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8257

PostPosted: Tue 18 Mar 2014, 06:02    Post_subject:  

Oh a stable of ours was 2.02 regression by tempestuous.

Came with firefox and mplayer and it flew.

The main reason appeared to be the older xorg version, a fast gtk2 and of course use of gtk1, but in one test of deleting a pile of files using rox I got double the speed compared to say puppy 4. The bubbles game was definitely super rapid..... I could play videos on a k6 no problem. I miss those super light builds of linux where even kde was feasible on old pentiums and yes the internet seems to be the main driving force behind update, update, update.... perhaps we should start running android in a virtual machine to keep that crap happy Very Happy

mike
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2560
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 18 Mar 2014, 14:00    Post_subject:  

mikeb wrote:
Oh a stable of ours was 2.02 regression by tempestuous. Came with firefox and mplayer and it flew.
With all the nonsense going on with newer PCs containing hardware and software that allows hijacking of the data stream for spying purposes, and the problems with UEFI, it makes some of the older stuff seem increasingly appealing.
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