Classic Pup 2.14X -- Updated 2 series

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What is the best Puppy Version ever, LOL

2.14x
11
29%
2.14x
4
11%
2.14x
11
29%
Other: 2.14x only
12
32%
 
Total votes: 38

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Colonel Panic
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#4936 Post by Colonel Panic »

eternal-sunshine wrote:Thanks Colonel, I'll give Legacy a try tomorrow. Incidentally I see you and Mikeb use hdX not sdX so I assume you are not using SATA discs. I wonder if that is why I am having these problems. I'll try on an older IDE based box tomorrow.
Thanks
That's right eternal (and you're welcome btw). It mightn't just be a case of the SATA hard drive with Legacy though; it doesn't seem to like newer computers full stop.

I couldn't even get it to boot from the CD when I was running my Dell Optiplex (Pentium 4, 3.4 Ghz, 2 MB of RAM).
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

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Colonel Panic
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#4937 Post by Colonel Panic »

mikeb wrote:
Mike, I'm curious to know what the advantage is of running Puppy 2.12 over, say, 2.14 (which can install petfiles)?
Erm nostalgia plus its the one I did most of my development on which has been added to later puppies.... 252 sfs file, load on the fly, sfs save option, save folder option, image save option, multiuser with gui login, ...plus did update the core a little to use newer firefox etc,, and a pile of hacked apps and scripts for slickness and convenience.
Pets...well i rarely use them as is but instead open with xarchive.
well you did ask... :D

mike
Thanks for the info, and yes I did ask :) I like the older JWM better than the newer one; the styles seem a lot nicer (peach, XP etc.).

But the main reason for my asking is that, bearing in mind that Puppies generally get lighter and less demanding of system resources the further back you go (and I'm using a thirteen year old computer), I'd like to find out how far back you can go and still have a Puppy which is useable in 2013.

Maybe I should start a thread on the subject?
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

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mikeb
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#4938 Post by mikeb »

Could do but its pretty quiet here :)

Well puppy 1.08 works.... firefox 1.5 does hit a few snags on the internet dues to its limited ability to deal with the recent crap that exists there now.
2.02... similar restrictions really.
So 2.12 with a newer gtk2 allows FF 3.6 which still handles it in an acceptable fashion without decending into bloat land.

For daily use I have slax6/nimblex though 4.12 would be the equivalant and is currently the one I would use...Lucid is hiding in the wings.
Flash 10.1 rather than 10.3.... it downloads to /tmp which is handy at times.

ttuuxxx updated most of the core to at least 4.12 or beyond only leaving a limited 2.12 kernel which is ok for single core non sata systems which if thats what you are using its fine...thing is you might as well go for 4+ pups and enjoys a kernel that will support a recent wifi dongle for example. I prefer the all rounded slax kernels so use that on 4.12...never was happy with the retro pic n mix kernel approach.
Xorg is the other factor... 6.8 flew compared to 7+...kms seems to be a PITA for some systems...older nvidia comes to mind and some intel.
The X/xorg in 4.12 (7.3) I found to be a great stable allrounder at least for our gear including a 4 year old netbook. The problem with a monolithic xorg really...support for newer breaks support for older but thats a general linux problem.

As for JWM I hate it with a vengence and the first thing I do with any puppy is change it to a rox/xfce4 hybrid...nearly as light with none of the quirks or menu hacks.

again, you did ask

mike

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greengeek
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#4939 Post by greengeek »

Colonel Panic wrote:Maybe I should start a thread on the subject?
That would make a very interesting thread. The more I use Puppy the more I realise that newer is sometimes better - but not always. Any puppy is a compromise between a setup that is truly lightweight, and a more longwinded setup that is more easily understood by those who are newcomers (without that compromise I wouldn't have been able to make much of a start with Linux...).

A thread that helped identify how to get the best of the old/fast stuff, combined with the most necessary of the new stuff would be very helpful indeed. It would be very technical of course - but it would be a resource of really interesting ideas. Mike - your post chucked in some good ideas that I'd like to try out. What would it take to persuade you to offer an iso?? :-)

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mikeb
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#4940 Post by mikeb »

What would it take to persuade you to offer an iso??
a guarantee of your sanity and mine too...I have seen what happens to others lol.

Actually I have been twiddling with 4.12 (some full install fixes) and am in the middle of giving Lucid a once over ...operation rationalised driver handling and full install. 2.12 will probably stay in my museum as is, along with 2.02 and 1.08. In other words once done I will wrap up into fresh iso's and upload as I usually do.

Theres always something to fiddle with.... and new ideas pop up...one was a mksquashfs with fast compression for example... I feel the need to use it somewhere. :)


mike

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greengeek
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#4941 Post by greengeek »

mikeb wrote:a guarantee of your sanity
Oh. Ok, well I guess that rules that out then...
:-)

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Colonel Panic
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#4942 Post by Colonel Panic »

greengeek wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:Maybe I should start a thread on the subject?
That would make a very interesting thread. The more I use Puppy the more I realise that newer is sometimes better - but not always. Any puppy is a compromise between a setup that is truly lightweight, and a more longwinded setup that is more easily understood by those who are newcomers (without that compromise I wouldn't have been able to make much of a start with Linux...).

A thread that helped identify how to get the best of the old/fast stuff, combined with the most necessary of the new stuff would be very helpful indeed. It would be very technical of course - but it would be a resource of really interesting ideas. Mike - your post chucked in some good ideas that I'd like to try out. What would it take to persuade you to offer an iso?? :-)
Hi Greengeek,

Thanks for your reply and suggestion, but I agree with Mike on this one. It's one thing to remaster a Puplet for your own use, when you know what you want to do with it and what equipment it's going to be running on, and quite another to do the same for someone else who may have different interests, and tasks to perform, and will run it on different equipment; none of which you have any way of knowing in advance.

For example, I think John Biles does a fantastic job in getting Legacy up and running all on his own, but even so I've been unable to get Flash working in the browser of the latest one (Legacy 2.1 Gamer) and in the end I've had to give it up as a bad job and use an earlier one instead. I can't promise I'd do any better if I put a Puplet out there for others to use, indeed I'd most likely do worse.

What is a lot easier (and I do like doing) is making suggestions for software which will work with other people's Puppies - for example, Opera 11.11 works well in Turbo Extreme, and I'm a happy user of PortaBase, which fulfils all my needs for a simple database program and I'm sure would meet others' needs too.
Last edited by Colonel Panic on Tue 11 Mar 2014, 11:10, edited 1 time in total.
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greengeek
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#4943 Post by greengeek »

Colonel Panic wrote:for example, Opera 11.11 works well in Turbo Extreme, .
Would you have a link to the version of O11.11 that works with Turbopup? I was trying to get hold of one of Synths Opera pets from around that time but the links all seemed dead.

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Colonel Panic
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#4944 Post by Colonel Panic »

greengeek wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:for example, Opera 11.11 works well in Turbo Extreme, .
Would you have a link to the version of O11.11 that works with Turbopup? I was trying to get hold of one of Synths Opera pets from around that time but the links all seemed dead.
This one still works;

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=39444

which links to;

http://www.mediafire.com/download/ppq59 ... -11.11.pet

I tried uploading it from my own collection of Puppy files but the forum software wouldn't allow it.
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eternal-sunshine
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#4945 Post by eternal-sunshine »

mikeb wrote
ttuuxxx updated most of the core to at least 4.12 or beyond only leaving a limited 2.12 kernel which is ok for single core non sata systems
So are you saying that 214X wouldn't work with sata drives? But from my experiments with a dual core sata system (see above) it did work when I could get it to boot.
Or are you saying its a boot issue with sata drives??

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mikeb
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#4946 Post by mikeb »

Ok to be more specific I have a atom dual core ITX board with sata drives and the 2.12 kernel DOES see them. Other SATA machines do not and my conclusion was Intel chipsets with SATA appear to work but others are unlikely...I assume they work in a more generic way and the others need specific drivers and/or kernel config. Its all in the dark mysteries of libata and not something I have detailed knowledge about.

To put it another way if you want to guarantee SATA support on any machine get a puppy with a 2.6.25.x or newer kernel. (note for that case you may lose EIDE support ..eg early pentium and similar.)

mike

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#4947 Post by sheldonisaac »

eternal-sunshine wrote:Thanks Colonel, I'll give Legacy a try tomorrow. Incidentally I see you and Mikeb use hdX not sdX so I assume you are not using SATA discs. I wonder if that is why I am having these problems. I'll try on an older IDE based box tomorrow.
Thanks
I guess you mean where he says
# Linux bootable partition config begins
title Linux (on /dev/hdc1)
root (hd0,0)
That always uses the hdX way , regardless of what kind the actual drive is.

But that's for 'regular' GRUB, eg GRUB 0.97 ,not for GRUB2.
Although I don't recall the reason given, it's been said that the latter is no 'better than the old GRUB.
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Colonel Panic
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#4948 Post by Colonel Panic »

I've taken a tip from Mike and carried out a full install of an old (and possibly forgotten) version of Puppy, 2.10 Professional, to my hard drive. It's pretty in a retro sort of way (something I like about that generation of Puppies) and, although it's not quite as capable as one of the more recent generations of Puppy it's a heck of a lot quieter in operation, perhaps because the libraries are smaller and therefore don't need as many system resources to run properly.
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mikeb
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#4949 Post by mikeb »

Oh a stable of ours was 2.02 regression by tempestuous.

Came with firefox and mplayer and it flew.

The main reason appeared to be the older xorg version, a fast gtk2 and of course use of gtk1, but in one test of deleting a pile of files using rox I got double the speed compared to say puppy 4. The bubbles game was definitely super rapid..... I could play videos on a k6 no problem. I miss those super light builds of linux where even kde was feasible on old pentiums and yes the internet seems to be the main driving force behind update, update, update.... perhaps we should start running android in a virtual machine to keep that crap happy :D

mike

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greengeek
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#4950 Post by greengeek »

mikeb wrote:Oh a stable of ours was 2.02 regression by tempestuous. Came with firefox and mplayer and it flew.
With all the nonsense going on with newer PCs containing hardware and software that allows hijacking of the data stream for spying purposes, and the problems with UEFI, it makes some of the older stuff seem increasingly appealing.

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mikeb
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#4951 Post by mikeb »

old stuff never really lost its appeal for me ..it it ain't broke... etc

And usually solidly built too .....

mike

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ally
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#4952 Post by ally »

FYI

I received an email from archive.org saying that file python-2.5.pup had malware in it and it has been removed

details for those interested:

http://www.virustotal.com/en/file/d6794 ... 394673375/

:)

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James C
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#4953 Post by James C »

Still running Top 10 occasionally.....

yellodog
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#4954 Post by yellodog »

Lately, I had to install Puppy 2.14X several times. I realized, I always did the same customizations and tweaks. So I took the time to write it all down on a web-page, which I then put here.
(It's better viewed when JavaScript is turned off in the browser, otherwise there may be annoying pop-up-windows.)
The page may be a bit weak on the point of the installation itself, so it's basically about what can be done, when Puppy 2.14X is already installed (or otherwise running). See it as a fan-page of Puppy 2.14X. :P

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Colonel Panic
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#4955 Post by Colonel Panic »

Has anyone else tried the latest, experimental version of 214X Classic, 10.1 GTK3? I'm using it now from a frugal install and it's working fine :)
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