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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Newbies - Puppy needs YOUR help too!
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olddog

Joined: 21 Dec 2016
Posts: 13
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon 25 Jun 2018, 19:34    Post subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
olddog wrote:
Sadly, I have found printer installation to be more of a problem. I am still struggling to get my printer to print.


People can't help you if you won't identify the printer.


Indeed. But please note the words still struggling.

If and when I give up the struggle I shall humbly ask for help and list my equipment.
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4471
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun 2018, 20:05    Post subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
Burn_IT wrote:
Partly this is because many printer manufacturers don't provide the Linux drivers for their hardware as freely as they do the Windows divers.

The five major printer vendors all provide Linux drivers.

In many cases, the Linux setup will be simpler because you won't be forced into installing all the extra crap that comes with the Windows driver.


Spot on, Bill. Couldn't have put it better myself.

I've been running my old Epson SX218 for quite some years.....since before coming to Linux (and Puppy).

Under Windows, the process of installing the drivers took, on average, 37-38 minutes. I timed it, on more than one occasion.....and the drivers were only a very small percentage of what was being installed!

In Puppy, installing both printer and scanner drivers takes around 40 seconds, tops. Admittedly, then getting CUPS to recognise and make use of those drivers can be a slightly daunting experience for newcomers.....but the wealth of material on the matter, much of it provided by your good self, means that it's only ever a case of a few minutes trial & error for most folks who are even slightly computer-literate.

And there are plenty of us who are more than happy to offer advice born of much experience, and help out where necessary.


Mike. Wink

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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2698
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jun 2018, 05:35    Post subject:  

Definitely no linux drivers for some canon products (I still need Windows to use my printer/scanner combo). Why so long to install windows drivers? My goodness it's all on the manufacturer's CD. It's just a matter of running the CD and auto installing everything. No cups shit.
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3323
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jun 2018, 06:16    Post subject:  

It doesn't take that long to install the drivers.
It might take a little longer to install the added optical software associated with the scanner though, but that can be avoided by doing a custom install - which you should ALWAYS do anyway, and selecting the components you want.

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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2698
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jun 2018, 07:25    Post subject:  

Burn_IT wrote:
It doesn't take that long to install the drivers.
It might take a little longer to install the added optical software associated with the scanner though, but that can be avoided by doing a custom install - which you should ALWAYS do anyway, and selecting the components you want.

Exactly, one can even copy the stuff you want to from CD to HDD (or download it). Installation from files on HDD will be quick. Even installing scanner software from CD is also relatively quick. I've done it a couple of times, 5 minutes max.
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RT2709

Joined: 09 Oct 2018
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue 09 Oct 2018, 10:07    Post subject:  

I am very very new to Linux as a whole, I've tried Ubuntu (I know it's not a puppy), slacko puppy, tahrpup and precise puppy, I like Slacko puppy the most out of all of them. The most difficulty that I find with puppy linux is: to install apps. Package Manager and Quickpet have only limited apps, when using terminal I suddenly find that apt-get does not work in puppies. That's what I find the most frustrating with puppies.
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3323
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Tue 09 Oct 2018, 10:17    Post subject:  

if you are new to Linux, you will also be new to apt-get
Puppy does not use it because any software that has been written or modified for Puppy will be available through the supplied utilities.
Puppy is NOT a standard Linux, though many standard linux programs will work with it, but may not work without differences.

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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 890
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Tue 09 Oct 2018, 10:51    Post subject:  

Quote:
apt-get does not work in puppies


there is a substitute for apt-get called pkg that one can install and do command line package management similar to apt-get
here is the thread : http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=112927
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2858
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Tue 09 Oct 2018, 15:26    Post subject: Getting additional applications  

Hi RT2709,

Welcome to the Kennels, Glad that you like Slacko. What you'll find about Puppy is that it is a fan-based distro, really a family of distros, each sharing many ways of doing things in common, but each being somewhat unique. Both the commonality and the uniqueness results from it being fan-based. There is no corporate "big-daddy" or inner-circle to direct or limit anyone who wants to try to do anything.

Like any freedom what is sacrificed is certainty and what is required of even mere users, if they want to accomplish something beyond the basics included by a Puppy's creator, is a little knowledge.

Your question about obtaining additional software reveals that you've already discovered what this means in practice. Being fan-based, anyone who wants to extend the capabilities of any Puppy beyond those provided that Puppy's creator is free to do so by creating and publishing an application. Keep in mind that he or she may not have chosen the application you want. So when you are looking for some way to accomplish a task keep an open mind.

The Addition Software Section, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?f=63 is divided into categories, almost identical to those on the Start-Menu. The application you are familiar with may be there. If not, consider an alternative which is. Using applications fans have created for your Puppy is the easiest way to extend its capabilities.

But don't sell Menu>Setup>Puppy Package Manager short. Each recent Puppies, including the three you mentioned, is "binary-compatible" with the version of the distro whose binaries went into their creation. Its PPM provides direct access to the repositories of that version of the distro. [Ubuntu, however, may by now have closed the repos relating to Precise Pangolin whose binaries were used in Precise Puppy]. Tahrpup's PPM will access Ubuntu Trusty Tahr's repositories. Slackos are based on Slackware and PPM will access their repos. Note, however, that Slackware does not "name" its versions, only gives them numbers --13, 14, 14.1, 14.2. Usually the first post of a Slacko thread --but always some Announcement-- tells us on which version number of Slackware a Slacko is based. To facilitate communication, always be specific about which Slacko --in fact which Puppy-- you are using. [There are at least half a dozen Tahrpups, each slightly different].

Puppy Package Manager provides several download options from the Top-Right panel. Auto-install will download and install not merely the application you selected, but also any dependency of that application. IIRC --it's been a while since I've used it, see below-- Step by Step will download the application selected and ask regarding each dependency. Download Packages (No install) will download but not install the selected package and Download All will download the selected packages and their dependencies, but not install any. I ALWAYS Use the last choice for the following reason.

One of Puppies design objectives is to be “lean and mean” --to enable you to accomplish the most even if your computer's resources are limited. Applications are built to be run from specific operating systems and those systems often provide the foundations (dependencies/libraries) needed for an application to function, or at least the application's creator will expect to be present. PPM identifies dependencies as being those which the distro-version specified. But that may not be correct under Puppies, especially under Puppies based on Ubuntu versions. Ubuntu strives for “user friendliness” – building into their versions what, from Puppies' prospective, constitutes “unnecessary bloat”. The result is that PPM may FAIL to identify as dependencies those which aren't built into Puppies; or worse, yet, identify as dependencies some things which aren't under Puppies and may even interfere with how Puppies do things.

As I said, the easiest way to obtain additional software is to make use of the Additional Software Forum where some fan has done all the hard work of figuring out what actually was needed to run an application under a Puppy without interfering with other applications.

What I do when that isn't satisfying is spelled out here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=960945#960945.

But there is an easier method. FIRST BACK UP YOUR SAVEFILE/FOLDER* in case something goes wrong. Any change you make will only be stored in your SaveFile/Folder. If there is a problem –the application didn't work, or it worked but something else got broken-- you can boot “pfix=ram”** delete your current SaveFile/Folder and copy the backup SaveFile/Folder into its place. The copy of the SaveFile/Folder will not contain the problem.

With your Savefile/Folder backed-up, let PPM download and install the application and all its dependencies. If the application so installed doesn't work “out of the box” don't panic just yet. It may just need some additional files. Learn how to use ldd (List Dynamic Dependencies), http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=802028#802028 which is built into every Puppy.

Building your own applications can be frustrating, but also incredibly rewarding. The downsides of doing it the easy way are (a) you won't still have it if you upgrade your Puppy and (b) you can't share it.

* Hopefully, you did not do a Full Install. They can't be backedup. And they have other disadvantages.
** Ask if you need instructions on how to boot “pfix=ram”. Or use this customized google-search engine. https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=015995643981050743583%3Aabvzbibgzxo&q=#gsc.tab=0. Worth Bookmarking.
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J.Allen

Joined: 06 Aug 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed 17 Oct 2018, 16:09    Post subject: New user
Subject description: Xenial Puppy 7.5
 

I’ve recently replaced Windows XP with Xenial Puppy 7.5 32-bit.
I tried various other distributions that get recommended on the Internet for low powered hardware and old machines.
I probably shouldn’t mention the other distributions I tried; five in all, each had problems for the novice user and two I couldn’t even get to run.

Despite having had Ubuntu 11.04 on a laptop for a number of years now (I use it primarily as a music sever with DeadBeef) I don’t know very much about Linux. I stripped out a lot of the applications that I didn’t need with minimal crashes, on Ubuntu and it’s worked very well.

The first thing I liked was being able to have a look at puppy without having to install it. You probably know this is a great feature.
When I did come to install it (I wanted it as dual boot with XP on a single hard drive) despite the more complex instructions compared to Ubuntu, it all went very smoothly. I really liked that. I do not want to be struggling with an installation. If I can get a distribution to install and run I’ll give it a chance. Any problems installing and running it goes in the trash.

I didn’t like the look of it. I found it very straightforward to change .WM Desk manager works well and is easy to use.

Puppy found my Internet connection and that has been a problem with other distributions. I don’t know all the port and server details by heart some Internet mangers want before they’ll connect. However, I had some Internet problems unrelated to puppy and I lost the connection. I tried Simple Network Setup and I couldn’t get that to connect me. I tried Network Wizard and I didn’t do any better with that; frisbee on the other hand sorted it all out very easily. Top marks for frisbee.

Quick pet was useful at the start but is now not likely to be used again except for updates.
I’ve tried the other package managers but not enough to judge any.

Palemoon browser went straight in the trash. Any browser that loads all that stuff on the front page isn’t for me. A shame really. It may be a very good browser but....
I got Firefox and duckduckgo as a replacement.

I tried claws for email. Easy setup, lots of features, fast, but I couldn’t read the email library because of the white print. I couldn’t find an easy way of changing it either. That went in the bin too. Such a silly thing and so easy to leave everything as black print as default. I replaced it with Thunderbird.

I have one problem I haven’t been able to sort out yet.
I use a dac in preference to the internal sound card. Most of the internet content is I believe has a different bit and sample rate to standard CD audio. I want to be able to send both through my dac but so far I can only get 44.1 to operate. Any suggestions?

I will no doubt find other problems as I get to know the system better.

Overall, I’m very impressed with Xenial Puppy and it’s going to be my OS of choice. The very few niggles are a lot less than the hassle I had when I first started with Windows many years ago.
A big thank you to those involved in the distribution
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2858
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Wed 17 Oct 2018, 21:30    Post subject: Re: New user
Subject description: Xenial Puppy 7.5
 

J.Allen wrote:
I’ve recently replaced Windows XP with Xenial Puppy 7.5 32-bit...I have one problem I haven’t been able to sort out yet.
I use a dac in preference to the internal sound card. Most of the internet content is I believe has a different bit and sample rate to standard CD audio. I want to be able to send both through my dac but so far I can only get 44.1 to operate. Any suggestions?


I know almost nothing about sound and sound cards. But this thread probably isn't the best for sorting out problems. I don't think the problem is specific to Xenailpup 7.5, as a quick google revealed issues under Ubuntu and Linux in general. If it were only Xenialpup problem, the best place to ask for assistance would be the Xenialpup 7.5 thread. Rather, it appears to problem relating to sound hardware and the drivers needed to use it. So, I suggest that you post to the User's Section, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?f=3 where it may attract the attention of one of the "Regulars" having knowledge of sound cards, their drivers and firmware, and hopefully specific knowledge of dac.

Do again mention that your OS is xenialpup 7.5 (specify 32 or 64 bit), whatever details you can regarding the dac sound card and, just in case it may be significant, specifics regarding your computer.

Quoting bigpup "I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem." When posting, always include whatever information may be significant. Don't expect anyone to search for it. Only my wife, as I've been unable to convince her to do otherwise, expects me to understand what she's talking about when she starts in the middle of a paragraph, leaving out subject and context. Sad
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4471
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2018, 06:55    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
But don't sell Menu>Setup>Puppy Package Manager short. Each recent Puppies, including the three you mentioned, is "binary-compatible" with the version of the distro whose binaries went into their creation. Its PPM provides direct access to the repositories of that version of the distro. [Ubuntu, however, may by now have closed the repos relating to Precise Pangolin whose binaries were used in Precise Puppy].


Just to clarify this point, Mike, I don't know how (or even why).....but even today, almost 18 months after EOL for 'Precise Pangolin', those repos are still accessible. I've just used them to install a couple of libs I needed to get something working.

However; I would not like to say how much longer that will remain the case.....!! Laughing


Mike. Wink

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Ananda98


Joined: 03 Jul 2017
Posts: 17
Location: Bali, Indonesia

PostPosted: Fri 19 Oct 2018, 09:31    Post subject:  

Mmm... I don't know much about precise pangolin, but usually, Ubuntu moves their repository into another server when it is going to unsupported.

Well, this will make old Ubuntu Linux user hard to find sutable application.

But, different with that, it is more easier to find apps for old Puppies. A little bit searching on forum, download it, and install it.
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simon3223

Joined: 20 Nov 2018
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue 20 Nov 2018, 13:13    Post subject: RUNS-AS-SPOT  

Hi,

How can i run :
Chromium-70 32-bit & 64-bit versions for "2017/18" pups only and RUNS-AS-SPOT
I have Xenial Puppy 7.5.
Anyone help step by step ??
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 1317

PostPosted: Tue 20 Nov 2018, 14:31    Post subject:  

RT2709 wrote:
I am very very new to Linux as a whole, I've tried Ubuntu (I know it's not a puppy), slacko puppy, tahrpup and precise puppy, I like Slacko puppy the most out of all of them. The most difficulty that I find with puppy linux is: to install apps. Package Manager and Quickpet have only limited apps, when using terminal I suddenly find that apt-get does not work in puppies. That's what I find the most frustrating with puppies.


The ubuntu repo's in tahrpup should still work:
https://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/apt

there is a wrench icon on the top left of "pupppy package manager" where you can select which repos that you want to include. After you select the repo, then go to the tab that says "update database" and select update.

If any of the repos have moved (There should be no issues with tahr), unfortunately the PPM might fail to update any of the databases. Fortunately though it will tell you which repo was the problem.

Instructions to add/move/change a repo can be found at:

/usr/local/petget/README-add-repo.htm

however, there is a potential gotcha since the PPM tries to automate inclusion of the "-updates" version of the repo. I did a quick work-around (see post) on my system, but really the PPM should be checking that the "-update" version of the repo exists before passing it to the "download_compat_pkg_dbs" or alternatively the "download_compat_pkg_dbs" should just skip updating the repo if it doesn't exist.

Again, you shouldn't have this issue with tahr. With lucid you can select rerwin version, which has been updated to include the new location of the lucid repos. I don't know if anyone has done something similar or not for precise.

Regarding apt, if you download all of the dependencies then you can probably install it on puppylinux. I have had some success with installing apt on dpup stretch but I only tested the the "apt-cache search" functionality. As
rockedge notes above, It's probably safer to install the CLI based package manager that is built for puppylinux than trying to install apt but part of the fun of puppylinux is experimenting.

Another tip, is that if you install a package via a deb file (maybe downloaded from a website) rather than the package manager, you can use the package manager to download the dependency by changing the dropdown on the top of the puppy package manager from "auto" to "step by step". Then when you try re-installing the package in the puppy package manager it will give you the option to download and install the dependency. This technique is also useful if one of the dependencies fails, to install since the auto approach will completely block the installation if one of the dependencies fails to install but the step by step approach won't block the installation.

As a final note, if you are looking for deb files that are compatible with thar. Tahr is compatible with Ubuntu Version "Trusty".
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