Newbies - Puppy needs YOUR help too!

Booting, installing, newbie
Message
Author
Dewbie

#736 Post by Dewbie »

I read a post about how dangerous it is to run slacko as root, and I don´t get it.
That debate has been going on for years, even before Slacko.
I am anxious to experiment with a disk install in an old desktop with 384 MB RAM just for the fun of it. It’s planned for the weekend.

Try Wary. It's specifically made for older hardware.

User avatar
antiloquax
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri 27 Jan 2012, 09:17

#737 Post by antiloquax »

cfmendez wrote:
2.- I can’t configure the webcam. I am sure there is a post explaining how to do it, and it´s not essential to me, but I am surprised about slacko’s reluctance to it.
I used Guvcview. There's a thread about it here.

Re: logging in as root. Most Linux users don't do this - they run as a normal user and then use "sudo" when they need to do something that requires root privileges. Personally, I don't thinks it's a problem :wink:
My System:Arch-Arm on RPi!
"[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=76049l]RacyPy[/url]" puplet on Toshiba Tecra 8200. PIII, 256 MB RAM.
[url=http://raspberrypy.tumblr.com/]RaspberryPy[/url]: Lobster and I blog about the RPi.

BADGER.BRAD
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri 24 Feb 2012, 19:30

Puppy install complications !!!

#738 Post by BADGER.BRAD »

I'd like to see a simple install process like other distros I have used ( Mandiva ,Mandrake before that, Ubuntu,Lubuntu and Xubuntu) I have tried to install to my workshop machine but have found I need to Edit files to get the thing to boot. As the Puppy version I have uses a Ubuntu base why will it not install like Ubuntu ? I think this problem will be a major obstacle to people using Puppy which is a shame as it seems to work really well from the CD ! Unfortunately it has now stopped my machine booting into Xubuntu so I will have to do a reload most likely of Lubuntu as the machine is quite old.

Brad

User avatar
darkcity
Posts: 2534
Joined: Sun 23 May 2010, 19:16
Location: near here
Contact:

#739 Post by darkcity »

If you already have bootloader GRUB in place then there is an easy way to install - maybe this should be made more obvious with some level of automation. :arrow:

User avatar
Pete22
Posts: 264
Joined: Fri 08 May 2009, 22:59
Location: Utah, USA

the user Root

#740 Post by Pete22 »

The User Name of Root. Geeks understand what that means and why it is important to
know if you are using Root or not. Users do not understand why, so the word Root means
nothing to them. Users want geeks to make the program safe enough for them to use
without hurting anything. Geeks are totally capable of getting to a desktop, tweaking and
rebooting in Root if they want.

Users, however, are not capable of doing the reverse.

I like the name of a program I found back when I was using windose vista. It was called
Godmode. It overrides windose demand that only the “trusted installer" has the right to do
certain functions. The name immediately impressed on my mind that unless I knew what I
was doing, I should not mess with Godmode.

The name Root does not give me that same impression.
I think of a family tree or digging for ancestral roots. :D

Perhaps, Root user should be called Godmode or another word that would give the same
impression. There's also a game that has 4 levels of play.
The 4th level is listed for The creator of the known universe. :wink:

Even the name Geekmode would work I think.

So you could have

Usermode
and
Geekmode


What do you think?


Pete

cfmendez
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon 20 Feb 2012, 17:30
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

#741 Post by cfmendez »

antiloquax wrote:I used Guvcview. There's a thread about it here.
Thanks for your help. I realize that my webcam is not uvc compliant so it didn't work.
antiloquax wrote:Re: logging in as root. Most Linux users don't do this - they run as a normal user and then use "sudo" when they need to do something that requires root privileges. Personally, I don't thinks it's a problem :wink:
How do I switch back to user mode? I was asked during installation to select root or user and I didn't understand the implications of this. Moreover, to a newby (or perhaps I should say to me), root sounds better.
Thanks again
Carlos

User avatar
antiloquax
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri 27 Jan 2012, 09:17

#742 Post by antiloquax »

Sorry, maybe I didn't make that very clear. Puppy users usually run as "root". We get criticised for it by other Linux users. I've never bothered with the spot / fido things.
Being "root" does carry the risk that it's a bit easier to mess things up ...

I'm sorry the webcam isn't sorted - I expect there is a way to do it, but I don't know ...
My System:Arch-Arm on RPi!
"[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=76049l]RacyPy[/url]" puplet on Toshiba Tecra 8200. PIII, 256 MB RAM.
[url=http://raspberrypy.tumblr.com/]RaspberryPy[/url]: Lobster and I blog about the RPi.

torgo
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri 09 Sep 2011, 15:42

#743 Post by torgo »

I find both "root" and "home" amusing in Puppy.

For many users, "root" implies a top-level directory, either of a specific drive or of the file system overall. The name "home" implies a user directory, typically for a specific user account.

But when you boot Puppy from CD, whatever drive contains the save file gets named "home". Meanwhile, the default user name is "root".

So... your home (user) folder is named "root", while the root directory (top level) of the hard drive is named "home".

User avatar
Tote
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 07:53
Location: South Wales

#744 Post by Tote »

I'm still new to Puppy linux. I've only ever used XP before and then only for the basics.

Speaking for myself I don't feel there's any great distinction between running as root or as spot. I don't use the console a great deal yet, still getting to grips with that. But I have used it as root and spot, just to see what the difference is.

In my case I'm the only one who uses this laptop so I don't think it matters much either way. Traditionalists, and I mean people who have probably been using linux for years, would probably frown upon the way you can sign is as either one, that's how it seems to me from what I've read here and elsewhere. I know there's more chance I can mess things up using root but I figure if I do I'll just start again with a fresh install so there's no real harm done.

That, by the way, is one of the reasons I'm enjoying Puppy so much. If I mess it up, I can start over. And I have, a couple of times, but that's all part of learning how it works.

I'm forever amazed at what you can do with it, and at how much work and time and effort the people who develop everything here put into it.

I found a little console music player here this morning, cmus, I think it's called. I downloaded it, a couple of clicks and it's playing my music perfectly, no hassle, first time. It's brilliant. I didn't even know stuff like that existed.

Root or spot, I don't think it matters. I'm having fun.

and I definitely won't be going back to w*%%!ws, ever. :D

User avatar
Aitch
Posts: 6518
Joined: Wed 04 Apr 2007, 15:57
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

#745 Post by Aitch »

Tote

NICE! :D

Aitch :)

mgh
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun 04 Mar 2012, 03:49

a reliable installer

#746 Post by mgh »

I am not an experienced Linux user, but currently dual boot desktop with WIN7 and Linux Mint, and laptop with WIN7 and Bodhi Linux (which is an outstanding distro!), so have had some experience.

Spent a good deal of time today reading around the forum, and tried at least 8 different methods to get Puppy to boot from USB all with no luck.

Very interested in Puppy, runs amazing off of live CD, but a USB option would be nice.

Thanks

Looks like a great forum here!

User avatar
antiloquax
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri 27 Jan 2012, 09:17

#747 Post by antiloquax »

@mgh
The usb booting difficulties are often to do with the bios of the computer. I had a Dell machine (not even a very old one) that would not boot from a usb at all until I did a bios update.

It is a bit trial and error. If you post up details of what you have tried / what options your bios gives when you call up boot device selection, someone will probably be able to help!
My System:Arch-Arm on RPi!
"[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=76049l]RacyPy[/url]" puplet on Toshiba Tecra 8200. PIII, 256 MB RAM.
[url=http://raspberrypy.tumblr.com/]RaspberryPy[/url]: Lobster and I blog about the RPi.

mgh
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun 04 Mar 2012, 03:49

Re: a reliable installer

#748 Post by mgh »

mgh wrote:I am not an experienced Linux user, but currently dual boot desktop with WIN7 and Linux Mint, and laptop with WIN7 and Bodhi Linux (which is an outstanding distro!), so have had some experience.

Spent a good deal of time today reading around the forum, and tried at least 8 different methods to get Puppy to boot from USB all with no luck.

Very interested in Puppy, runs amazing off of live CD, but a USB option would be nice.

Thanks

Looks like a great forum here!
My apologies to the dev team!
Apparently my issue was that I was installing to an ext4 partition, or a VFAT partition.
I reformatted the partition to ext3, used the universal installer with all the default settings, and it will now boot of the flash drive on both my PCs.
Very nice!

User avatar
antiloquax
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri 27 Jan 2012, 09:17

#749 Post by antiloquax »

Good news! :D
My System:Arch-Arm on RPi!
"[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=76049l]RacyPy[/url]" puplet on Toshiba Tecra 8200. PIII, 256 MB RAM.
[url=http://raspberrypy.tumblr.com/]RaspberryPy[/url]: Lobster and I blog about the RPi.

User avatar
Old puppy
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue 03 Apr 2012, 06:29
Location: Dual boot Italy / Brazil

#750 Post by Old puppy »

I think that I can give you a rare point of view here, the one coming from a perfect and unskilled nobody, who used just win98se for over a decade and who installed puppy 5.2.2 right yesterday.

To start off, the installation.
As I've written on the other board -beginners help-, although totally unskilled, I was able to install puppy-wary 5.2.2 on a toshiba satellite 2180cdt 64mb ram without CD/floppy support. After having done it, I feel that few words about this possibility could be spent in those very detailed "how to install puppy" guides, maybe adding a chapter named "No CD/DVD? No Floppy? No USB? No problems!".

Also, about Grub. I've loved it, more since when I've discovered that it was enough to copy to the HD just 2 files (grldr and menu.lst from Grub4dos) , to edit the .lst a very simple boot.ini (win) to see puppy in dual boot. No installation, no warnings about possible boot troubles. Nothing.

I can't say a lot more about puppy itself because I'm still looking at it.
Just few things: it appears that the seamonkey embedded in wary 5.2.2 is meant for higher class machiness than mine. It starts to load. And continues. Nothing else.

In my opinion, and I remark that this is a newbie one, I would have preferred to deal with further installations (browser & co fitting to my machine possibilities) rather than to search ways to uninstall embeded apps previously downloaded @ 5kb/s :?

More comments will follow :)

Meanwhile.. a big THANK YOU for all your efforts!

Dewbie

#751 Post by Dewbie »

Old puppy wrote:
I was able to install puppy-wary 5.2.2 on a toshiba satellite 2180cdt 64mb ram...it appears that the seamonkey embedded in wary 5.2.2 is meant for higher class machiness than mine. It starts to load. And continues. Nothing else.

You need more RAM.
Recommended minimum for full installation is 128MB; for frugal installation, 256MB.

Then go to Menu / System / GParted and make a Linux-swap partition.
RAM-only or RAM+swap should equal 512MB.

pikacane
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed 04 Apr 2012, 03:31

#752 Post by pikacane »

I'll make a help thread with more specifics on this, but...

I've used Puppy off and on for several years. It's taken a few old laptops of mine from dinosaur to happy puppy-a specific example: I was given a PIII Sony Vaio with (iirc) 128 mb of RAM and told that I could keep it if I could get it to work. It was running XP with a fancy theme including moving wallpaper and a starfish cursor, as well as a full Norton suite, and took 45 minutes to boot. It was marginally usable after I replaced Norton with avast! and stripped it back to a minimal theme, but when I dropped Puppy 421 on it, I swear it started dancing jigs.

What I've noticed over time, though, is that Puppy either notices wireless on first boot (for those computers that have it installed), or it will never work. If it wasn't autodetected, no matter how many things I try in the network setup wizard, it never finds a working one. I've let it autoprobe the entire list.

Going to go make a thread with the issues involving the specific computer I'm working on at the moment. Just adding my two cents that, while I know wireless is always the Linux bugaboo, it's often nearly impossible to set up and probably drives away a lot of people looking for plug and go distros.

User avatar
Old puppy
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue 03 Apr 2012, 06:29
Location: Dual boot Italy / Brazil

#753 Post by Old puppy »

Dewbie wrote:You need more RAM.
Recommended minimum for full installation is 128MB; for frugal installation, 256MB. Then go to Menu / System / GParted and make a Linux-swap partition. RAM-only or RAM+swap should equal 512M
Thank you for your answer, it was really appreciated.

Indeed, that is, but being close to (finally) buy a new machine, I'd face 10 WBA rounds with both hands tied rather than to spend a single cent for this laptop. In addition, through years I've forced this poor win98-based hw to perform -somehow- all the tasks required and, as far as I could foresee, Wary 5.2.2 won't be an exception, since all performance troubles are coming from heavy apps and not from the mere OS. Sure, I could try older puppy versions, but I want to deal with last kernels.

Back to thread topic.
Having a lot of free time, yesterday I've started a Puppy full immersion stage, being really impressed by devs and community skills.

It took me a while to understand the reasons behind the lack of a proper uninstalling feature for ISO unwanted apps (hence petget mgr/petbegone aside): I'm now aware that remastering (at first sight I prefer Douglas rem script) is the way to go, but, as a newcomer, I've felt the urge of it while moving my first steps in a new environment, more if considering the limited disk space.

However, it hasn't been a difficult task to uninstall unwanted apps without remastering (even considering the cross-interactions such as Seamonkey-gxine & co): it gave me the opportunity to surf and understand puppy's files/directories management and mechanisms (all those .txt are amazing!) and to learn some basic tricks (such as to put files into a directory to see them working: something really weird coming from win98 :s), right what I need at the moment.

This said, I'd like to spend few words about Wary Puppy's Help: in my opinion, a newbie one, it should come such as a standalone rather than default browser input, or, at least, to rely on a very light editor able to deal with basic links: this would ensure that everybody can take advantage of it , and, talking about a Puppy such as Wary one meant for dated hw, this could be more than welcome.



Once again, thank you for your efforts and time!

[edit]

@ Dewbie:
Nevertheless,
I've just followed your suggestion about the swap file. I've created it via console (64 mb -I think that it was the best way, at least for me, to prevent eventual troubles) and setted it to automatically mount at puppy boot.
Having uninstalled seamonkey, I've added a temporary standalone ff 2.0.0.20 to write this edit and all works fine (lol all is working without cpu fan ranting vs me :D ). The next step will be Flash 10.x, but since this CPU doesn't support all required sse instructions, I'll need either to find a way to emulate them like I've already done in win98 or to find out who and how did it before me :p

Guys, you don't immagine how it feels discovering your world coming from the stone age! :oops:

Dewbie

#754 Post by Dewbie »

Sure, I could try older puppy versions, but I want to deal with last kernels.
BarryK intentionally builds Wary with an older kernel (but newer packages), to keep it compatible with older hardware.
Read here.
I've just followed your suggestion about the swap file.
Those instructions were for a swap partition.
You can also make a swap file with Puppy; I have no idea how to do this.

User avatar
Old puppy
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue 03 Apr 2012, 06:29
Location: Dual boot Italy / Brazil

#755 Post by Old puppy »

Got it, and sure, you talked about a swap partition. I've preferred a swap file just because atm I feel more comfortable with them than with partitions. This is what I've done (following somebody else instructions, ofc):

dd if=/dev/zero of=/mnt/home/puppy.swp bs=1024 count=64k
mkswap /mnt/home/puppy.swp
swapon /mnt/home/puppy.swp

and then I've added, before rebooting,

swapon /mnt/home/puppy.swp

to /root/.etc/rc.d/rc.local

I've read even an old thread in this forum (~2010) linking a .pet swap-file manager, but I preferred the manual way.

[edit]

I remembered win pagefile (win386.swp for win98) while writing this post, and I've searched this forum for possible interactions between it and puppy. I've found out that I can use it (=disk space friendly) without any troubles, hence I've forced it's size (dynamic by default) setting the same initial and maximum size through virtual memory management (change). The rest ws quite easy following
Bruce B wrote:My experience is the pagefile makes a fine Linux swapfile

In rc.local

mount partition windows partition rw (as necessary)
format pagefile to linux swapfile
then activate the swapfile

Then Linux uses it


When you boot Windows it is not bothered by the markings
Linux made to it, so there is nothing to do.
OT: I'm thinking to collect all "very old and weak machines users"-friendly tips I can find on this board while I'm getting started with puppy and to publish them into a dedicaded thread. Is it ok?

Post Reply