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Puppyt

Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 568
Location: Gatton, Queensland

PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 05:30    Post_subject:  

What this recent discussion tells me is that we need to have some videos available to SHOW potential new users the ways in which Puppy can be downloaded, burnt to CD from within a MicroSoft (or Mac) environment, and then properly installed - full or frugal - on the choice of hard drive or flash drive. Or - like I do now - just copy the 3-4 key files from the ISO to a partition/directory, and manually modify Grub, to install the new puplet without ever burning a CD.
Sincerest apologies if these resources are already available from the new Puppy School and related "For Beginners" pages, as I haven't checked. But visual demonstration is what I personally prefer - especially when I tend to get sidetracked and overwhelmed with well-meant gobbeldy-geek when reading through the forums...
So my vote (again?) is for better advertising for visual references for new users. Sorry to see that jobo has found himself in the same circles that I did when I was starting out in Puppy.

Hmmm - if only there was an online "mentoring" service we could periodically offer for small groups of new users, where an expert / designated guru, could walk them through the main issues with getting up and running.

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jobo

Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 06:42    Post_subject:  

RetroTechGuy wrote:
jobo wrote:
RetroTechGuy wrote:

Quote:
burning an ISO is by no means an easy process for us newbies, even if they had a cd burner


If you are using Windows, get ImgBurn.

http://www.imgburn.com/


its not my intent to start a windows v puppy debate, i think ONCE installed puppy wins hands down, but for ease of first installation then windows wins every time i can load XP on a new hdisc in 2 hours including going and buying the disk, another half hour down loading the programs


2 1/2 hours versus about 5 minutes...sounds like a good deal to me...

Quote:
i accept your live disc point, but in my case i cant burn a disc or boot from usb so install it is what ihad to do


No libraries near you, where you could use a machine? Or a friend's machine?

Quote:
that link youve posted above waisted several hours of my time as it tells you to down load isobuster for the win98 installation,


Are you telling me that I need to boot this machine down into Win98 to see what version of ImgBurn I have installed?

I never had to use "isobuster" to get ImgBurn to work...

Quote:
so, i have the ability to load a windows OS, but not it seems any where near enough to do the same with puppy in less than a working week


So your comparison is that you have "burned" (i.e. pressed) Windows disks, but cannot burn a Puppy disk, and therefore Windows is a better system, and easier to install... Whatever...

Quote:
im now dowloading pups out of the built in rep that load, tell me their ok but wont launch, proberbly another couple of days to figure that out ?


What version of Puppy are you running? I seem to recall you mentioning that you have an old system -- Did you try Lupu 5.25 Retro?


no, my point is,, ive not come posting to complain ive been asked for feedback as a newbe and thats what im trying to give, i use computers, i switch them on, i do things , i switch them of fagain, i have no idea how they work, im like the motorists that knows how to put petrol in and change a tyre
and my feed back is, that if i was advicing some other novic computer programmer, id tell them that in no circumstances should they attemp this unless they own a live cd, at that point it is as easy and a lot quicker than installing windows, if your doing it with out its extremly difficult for someone who doesnnt know what ''root'' means and cant find the square brackets on this key board

ive a particular set of circumstances that make things difficult for me at the moment to get out and about and if i wasnt so badly off for money id just have gone and bought a new computer but we are, where we are and im doing this with a very old laptop

im very geatfull to the guys that have helped me and apreciate that everything written is from a volinteer, but i was following instructions to the letter if it said iso buster then iso buster was what i was oing to use, as i couldnt check the iso, it may be that my subsequent problems with wery are down to a bad image ? il now down load the one you sugest, it will with out doubt save me time next time , but i didnt know that then

ive got pup 2.1.6 loaded, i installed wery 5 but it is patheticaly slow, 4 times slower than win98 so is rather defeating the object, i put this down, with no science, to the fact i only have a 800mhz chip but maybe its just a bad install, i gave up eventualy and loaded 2.1.1, which is very fast, but now it seems has a repro problem

ive been told to try clasic pup and notwyour saying lupu retro is the one

which takes us back to the points above, you dont need one live cd you need 4 or 5 to try them out at least on an old machine
so im now trying to decied if i should continue trying to got pups and pets to load in 2.1.6 or change direction again and install something else ?
all i want is a system that works better than win 98 and i can download programs for which doesnt sound like much of an ask
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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 2668
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 10:45    Post_subject:  

jobo wrote:

no, my point is,, ive not come posting to complain ive been asked for feedback as a newbe and thats what im trying to give,


Fair enough.

Quote:
and my feed back is, that if i was advicing some other novic computer programmer, id tell them that in no circumstances should they attemp this unless they own a live cd, at that point it is as easy and a lot quicker than installing windows, if your doing it with out its extremly difficult for someone who doesnnt know what ''root'' means and cant find the square brackets on this key board


Well, Windows also has a "root" account (generally called "administrator"). The difference is that Puppy runs as "root" (there is only 1 user, so having both root and user accounts is a little redundant).

I don't know how to solve the lack of a burner. Once the devs provided a burnable, free iso, it's hard to help a newbie on that next step of actually burning the disc. I suspect that a user could go to a library and burn a disc, and most users have a friend with a computer, who could likely burn the disc for them.

Quote:
ive a particular set of circumstances that make things difficult for me at the moment to get out and about and if i wasnt so badly off for money id just have gone and bought a new computer but we are, where we are and im doing this with a very old laptop


I own a pile of old junkers. The oldest that is left in my pile (I starting purging the really old stuff -- 286's, 386's, 486's and early Pentiums) is a 333 MHz PII laptop. It runs Lupu 5.25 Retro.

Quote:
ive got pup 2.1.6 loaded, i installed wery 5 but it is patheticaly slow, 4 times slower than win98 so is rather defeating the object, i put this down, with no science, to the fact i only have a 800mhz chip but maybe its just a bad install, i gave up eventualy and loaded


Should be an acceptable CPU (I ran a 900 MHz as my main desktop for a long time -- the 333 is primarily a test-bed).

I think the problem I saw was that you only have 128MB RAM. If you can scrape some extra, it will help (retro people like myself will often give you some for free, if they have any). A swap file or partition will also help. I use the rule that you need a minimum of 512 RAM+Swap (yes, that is more memory intensive than Win98). If you don't have swap space, see my Sig below.

My 333MHz has 256MB RAM, and a 512MB swap.

The 5.25 Retro does pretty well on it, but Firefox really hogs too much memory.

Quote:
ive been told to try clasic pup and notwyour saying lupu retro is the one


I think that they meant ttuuxxx's 2.14 "Classic", rather than the older 2.16. Ttuuxxx maintains and updates his 2.14 version -- I'm planning to try that on my 333 MHz at some point, since I recall it having a much lower memory load (in the range of 65MB idling).

Being up to date, the packages are better supported and also up to date (ttuuxxx ROCKS!!!).

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=42553

If you haven't yet found this, it's worth a look:

http://www.smokey01.com/

Smokey01 is supporting stuff for several Devs:

http://www.smokey01.com/devs/

And a directory of ttuuxxx's 2.14 "Classic":

http://smokey01.com/ttuuxxx/2.14X/

Use the search link in my Sig, to determine what software will do the task your want.

Quote:
all i want is a system that works better than win 98 and i can download programs for which doesnt sound like much of an ask


Perhaps the biggest problem with Win98 is the lack of a newer browser. Even K-Meleon is a few years out of date (give it a try in Win98, it works on most web sites).

http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/

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jobo

Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 12:31    Post_subject:  

RetroTechGuy wrote:
jobo wrote:

no, my point is,, ive not come posting to complain ive been asked for feedback as a newbe and thats what im trying to give,


Fair enough.

Quote:
and my feed back is, that if i was advicing some other novic computer programmer, id tell them that in no circumstances should they attemp this unless they own a live cd, at that point it is as easy and a lot quicker than installing windows, if your doing it with out its extremly difficult for someone who doesnnt know what ''root'' means and cant find the square brackets on this key board


Well, Windows also has a "root" account (generally called "administrator"). The difference is that Puppy runs as "root" (there is only 1 user, so having both root and user accounts is a little redundant).

I don't know how to solve the lack of a burner. Once the devs provided a burnable, free iso, it's hard to help a newbie on that next step of actually burning the disc. I suspect that a user could go to a library and burn a disc, and most users have a friend with a computer, who could likely burn the disc for them.

Quote:
ive a particular set of circumstances that make things difficult for me at the moment to get out and about and if i wasnt so badly off for money id just have gone and bought a new computer but we are, where we are and im doing this with a very old laptop


I own a pile of old junkers. The oldest that is left in my pile (I starting purging the really old stuff -- 286's, 386's, 486's and early Pentiums) is a 333 MHz PII laptop. It runs Lupu 5.25 Retro.

Quote:
ive got pup 2.1.6 loaded, i installed wery 5 but it is patheticaly slow, 4 times slower than win98 so is rather defeating the object, i put this down, with no science, to the fact i only have a 800mhz chip but maybe its just a bad install, i gave up eventualy and loaded


Should be an acceptable CPU (I ran a 900 MHz as my main desktop for a long time -- the 333 is primarily a test-bed).

I think the problem I saw was that you only have 128MB RAM. If you can scrape some extra, it will help (retro people like myself will often give you some for free, if they have any). A swap file or partition will also help. I use the rule that you need a minimum of 512 RAM+Swap (yes, that is more memory intensive than Win98). If you don't have swap space, see my Sig below.

My 333MHz has 256MB RAM, and a 512MB swap.

The 5.25 Retro does pretty well on it, but Firefox really hogs too much memory.

Quote:
ive been told to try clasic pup and notwyour saying lupu retro is the one


I think that they meant ttuuxxx's 2.14 "Classic", rather than the older 2.16. Ttuuxxx maintains and updates his 2.14 version -- I'm planning to try that on my 333 MHz at some point, since I recall it having a much lower memory load (in the range of 65MB idling).

Being up to date, the packages are better supported and also up to date (ttuuxxx ROCKS!!!).

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=42553

If you haven't yet found this, it's worth a look:

http://www.smokey01.com/

Smokey01 is supporting stuff for several Devs:

http://www.smokey01.com/devs/

And a directory of ttuuxxx's 2.14 "Classic":

http://smokey01.com/ttuuxxx/2.14X/

Use the search link in my Sig, to determine what software will do the task your want.

Quote:
all i want is a system that works better than win 98 and i can download programs for which doesnt sound like much of an ask


Perhaps the biggest problem with Win98 is the lack of a newer browser. Even K-Meleon is a few years out of date (give it a try in Win98, it works on most web sites).

http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/


if any one has 2 x 250 dram knocking about they would stick in an envelope for me that would be grat, im in the uk if that makes any differance to postage etc

yea but root is just an example, the little i know about computers is being a '' competent ''user of windows, so admin means something to me, root doesnt, come to a halt, hit google, learn something, but then repeat with every techical term that i come across and then suddenly a page of instructions takes 3 hours to follow and i get confused between which is which.
im driving the two guys who are helping me mad, with not understanding simple instuctions, open a ''shell'' '' dump to the thingymebob '' file etc etc meaning less to me, spend half an hour googling so not as to appear too stupid, i cant work cut and paist with the txt boxes and they cant believe im that dim, but apparently i am

if i was doing the instructions, id brake it down in to short sections and not assume any prior knowledge, so for this section you need to know that root is,... you find it here,,,

open a shell ,,,its in the following icon,,,,,, its like writing an instuction for someone who grew up in the junge on how to make a cup of tea and assuming they know what a cup is or you need to plug the kettle in first and it really is my failure at that most fundemental level thats causing my problems. but i suggest that people in the world that dont know how to partition a c drive instinctivley are in the majority
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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 2668
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 12:40    Post_subject:  

jobo wrote:

im driving the two guys who are helping me mad, with not understanding simple instuctions, open a ''shell'' '' dump to the thingymebob '' file etc etc meaning less to me, spend half an hour googling so not as to appear too stupid, i cant work cut and paist with the txt boxes and they cant believe im that dim, but apparently i am

if i was doing the instructions, id brake it down in to short sections and not assume any prior knowledge, so for this section you need to know that root is,... you find it here,,,

open a shell ,,,its in the following icon,,,,,, its like writing an instuction for someone who grew up in the junge on how to make a cup of tea and assuming they know what a cup is or you need to plug the kettle in first and it really is my failure at that most fundemental level thats causing my problems. but i suggest that people in the world that dont know how to partition a c drive instinctivley are in the majority


I think that I'm reading that thread right now...

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=77980

The terminal icon, is the shell icon (aka "rxvt" on some systems), sits in the top of the screen, about in the middle.

The "connect" button (which tells puppy to connect to the internet) sits on the left side of the screen, in the bottom row of the collection of icons. The actual icon differs depending on the version.

Edit: from the desktop image posted by Semme, the terminal is "console", and connect is 3rd row from top, right edge.

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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 2668
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 14:13    Post_subject:  

Something from Smokey01

"PH101-001 - Puppy Help 101"

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69321

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gychang

Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Tue 08 May 2012, 10:19    Post_subject: almost perfect  

great improvement from about 3 yrs ago when I last tried to install and failed.

Works well on my PIII 800MHz, 512RAM. I would like to see more linux standard (like CBang) keyboard shortcuts as default. Also too many menu lines especially in view of consolidated setup(with multiple tabs) is already installed.

thanks for an excellent distro for old PC.
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derlowen


Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 2
Location: San Francisco, Ca.

PostPosted: Sun 13 May 2012, 22:24    Post_subject: Puppy Lucid First Impressions & Problems
Sub_title: Some of the things I first "discovered" about Puppy.
 

.
.
.
.
Overall, I really like the OS alot, especially since I use OLD equipment (eg. IBM T43 Thinkpad, 2000 Gateway desktop, 2006 HP Pavillion). Running with pfix=ram lets these machines keep up most of the time (and even use VirtualBox).

One of the first things that bothered me was Puppy's inability to make a strong WiFi connection, I'm still trying to decide whether its a driver issue or a reception problem. I've noticed other distro's (Ubuntu UE) seem to have about twice the signal pulling power. This is probably the single most frustrating thing.

The second peeve is the scant documentation when encountering a problem. So far, I have been able to solve most bugs on my own, but I've been forced to join this forum (my first ever) in order to fill the documentation void (I didn't mean that as a slur, I've just never joined a forum before).

Third thing is not being able to re-master my lupusave file onto DVD, I haven't asked the forum yet but I suspect it will be a minor problem to fix. The error I received on boot under the splash screen was "Invalid or corrupt kernal image".

Fourth thing is dependency hell. The installer works pretty good but the app that checks dependencies soon scrolls off the screen and becomes useless. My screen resolution is only 1024 by 786 on the Thinkpad and I often encounter this problem. Virtual desktops that bleed into each other would allow me to see the bottom of apps that do this. Might be a window manager problem. On the flip side is that pets and debs seem to take most of the installation pain away. Like pets alot.

Last but not least, cannot get BleachBit to install and therefore cannot fix some things that I otherwise might be able to (like getting rid of redundant or no longer needed libs). This might seem a minor issue to Linux/Puppy veterans but to a newbie, it is a major stumbling block and makes the learning curve quite painful.

Other than that, I intend to stick with Puppy and consider it to be the best alternative distro out there especially if you run older hardware, like to have control over your OS and are concerned about protecting your privacy.

Thanks Barry, and thanks also to all those that help make Puppy what it is today.
.
.
.

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straypuppy

Joined: 14 May 2012
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue 15 May 2012, 16:27    Post_subject: New puppy owner.
Sub_title: Running smooth so far...
 

Just installed Slacko to CD and everything seems to be working just fine. I had recently installed MacPup & Lupu.

Testing all three on a t40 thinkpad with 512 RAM with an old Radeon chipset. Currently running #! as my main OS.

Taking it slow, reading the forums and enjoying the snappy response I am getting from these new Puppies. Got wifi working ootb with just a few clicks - which is always a plus.

Will post any issues I come across. Cheers to Barry K. on another great distro.
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stvnx7

Joined: 06 Jun 2012
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun 2012, 20:12    Post_subject: Password for Saving Session  

Hi,

One suggestion that I have is to have the prompt that asks you for a password when saving your session for the first time to confirm that password. This only happens if you chose to encrypt the file, which if the file is stored on a USB drive is a good idea. However, i just did that and I must have mistyped the password because now I can't access it.

Also, the prompt should tell you what characters are valid for a password. For example, I used a password with non-numerical, non-alphabetical symbols and I'm not sure if that's why I can't get in now.

No biggie, because that session was more experimental than anything else, but I think others would be very frustrated to find themselves "locked out."

P.S. Puppy Linux is amazing.
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darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2462
Location: near here

PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun 2012, 09:48    Post_subject:  

That's a good idea, I never use encryption so haven't come across it. There more suggestions on this thread-
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=78752

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bups


Joined: 05 Jun 2012
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Tue 12 Jun 2012, 20:26    Post_subject:  

Puppy is my favorite Linux distro! It is very small yet as powerful as other huge sized distributions. Thank you all of the developers for your hard work and amazing operating system.
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Barkin


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 729

PostPosted: Tue 12 Jun 2012, 20:45    Post_subject: Re: Password for Saving Session  

stvnx7 wrote:
I used a password with non-numerical, non-alphabetical symbols and I'm not sure if that's why I can't get in now.

non-alphanumeric characters can be represented by different codes in different regions / different operating systems : apparently identical strings of characters are different passwords , e.g. ... http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?mode=attach&id=46191

Better stick to ASCII characters ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII_characters ("£" is not included )

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dk60902


Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Posts: 223
Location: In front of my computer

PostPosted: Tue 12 Jun 2012, 20:46    Post_subject:  

Puppyt wrote:
What this recent discussion tells me is that we need to have some videos available to SHOW potential new users the ways in which Puppy can be downloaded, burnt to CD from within a MicroSoft (or Mac) environment, and then properly installed - full or frugal - on the choice of hard drive or flash drive. Or - like I do now - just copy the 3-4 key files from the ISO to a partition/directory, and manually modify Grub, to install the new puplet without ever burning a CD.
Sincerest apologies if these resources are already available from the new Puppy School and related "For Beginners" pages, as I haven't checked. But visual demonstration is what I personally prefer - especially when I tend to get sidetracked and overwhelmed with well-meant gobbeldy-geek when reading through the forums...
So my vote (again?) is for better advertising for visual references for new users. Sorry to see that jobo has found himself in the same circles that I did when I was starting out in Puppy.

Hmmm - if only there was an online "mentoring" service we could periodically offer for small groups of new users, where an expert / designated guru, could walk them through the main issues with getting up and running.


This is about the best series I've seen to help new Puppy Users:

http://www.youtube.com/user/PuppyLinuxWorld/videos?view=1

The series, "Let's Use Slacko" is at the bottom of the list. This is starting from scratch from downloading Slacko, burning the iso to a CD, installing, etc.

For those who have difficulty burning a puppy iso to a CD, there are some CD's offered on eBay.
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Barkin


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 729

PostPosted: Tue 12 Jun 2012, 20:59    Post_subject:  

dk60902 wrote:
For those who have difficulty burning a puppy iso to a CD, there are some CD's offered on eBay.

and elsewhere ... http://www.osdisc.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi/products/linux/puppy
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