Newbies - Puppy needs YOUR help too!

Booting, installing, newbie
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swedenfox
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon 07 Oct 2013, 16:25

My opinion

#901 Post by swedenfox »

i really like puppy

PRO
  • FAST
    RECONIZED ALL MY HARDWARE STUFF
    IT USE ROX (MY FAV FILE MANAGER)
CONS
  • PACKAGE MANAGER IS REALLY UNFRIENDLY
    A BETTER WIKI COULD HELPFUL.
    A BETTER SELECTION OF THE START INSTALLED PROGRAMS (SOME OF THAT AREN'T WORKING)
BYE

klva47
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed 16 Oct 2013, 00:38

Puppy - It Just Works

#902 Post by klva47 »

Various versions of Puppy have been my favorite OS from the time a Puppy CD booted an old, basically worthless, laptop in 2005. The original OS was dead. Puppy booted-up fine, and even recognized the Netgear wireless PC card. That laptop soon became very useful in the workshop. Computers get upgraded, so my shop computer has been upgraded. I've tried other Linux distributions. Puppy is always the most useful. A computer with Puppy OS just works, no hassles.

Jacqueline_5

Puppy needs YOUR help too!

#903 Post by Jacqueline_5 »

Tell me what help your puppy needs.

dogle
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu 11 Oct 2007, 12:41

#904 Post by dogle »

Jaqueline_5, as you will see if you skip back to the first post, this thread requests help in the form of user feedback from newcomers to Puppy.

The many good people who took the trouble to post here made very clear from the beginning that newbies were having trouble with two issues in particular - one was Puppy installation, but the biggie by far was trouble in finding information.

The Puppy community has made great efforts to improve the newcomer's experience, not least in adding stickied newbie-support topics to this forum and in the painstaking building of the Puppy wiki (but, as you can see from swedenfox's valued comments above, such things are, like Puppy, ever a work-in-progress). Judging by the marked decline in comments here on those things which were previously upsetting lots of newbies, then unless the user base has changed significantly, good things are happening.

Anyhow, welcome to the Kennels! .... and any help you can give to support the wiki would be grand.

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g2k
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu 31 Oct 2013, 03:58

#905 Post by g2k »

Hi, I'm pretty new to the forums here and not "leaving" puppy linux but, there are a few things that I think are in line with this thread topic.

1) Puppy really needs a traditional right-click copy/paste function.
ALL users of ANY other operating system have this functionality OOTB.

2) secondary drives like SD Cards need to be able to be moved to an area of the screen and "locked" to that position (even after reboot). The HDD icons do this but the SD Card / USBflash icons do not, even if you rebuild the pinboard .config file. It isn't a deal-breaker but it IS annoying.

3) Frugal install with encrypted save folder is a very useful thing to have, maybe even more useful/secure than having a typical user account with password. However it is PAIN to set up "like a user account system". A GUI would be much appreciated here.

4) Root, root, and more root. One of the first things a newbie learns about linux is that the highest point in a file system after the partition is "/" this symbol is called root. It is the highest or topmost folder in the file system...OK, great. Every other distro of linux reinforces this axiom by expressing all derivations with this symbol in the following way: /mnt, or /mnt/my_folder/my_file, etc.

Puppy linux however doesn't do this. In puppy "/" is file system top folder, aka root. Then there is the folder /root, which is not a way of saying /=root (top folder of file system), but a way of saying this is the folder called root. But wait, doesn't / =root? So then really /root is really //root, the folder called root which is "within" the folder "/" or root folder, which does=the topmost folder in the structure. Do you see where I'm going with this...lol?

To make matters worse when a save filed is used it is mounted /mnt/home and not mounted as /home. To add even more confusion to injury, when mounted, this folder /mnt/home, is still shown by the file manager to be...you guessed it.../mnt/root or, said another way "/" root /mnt/root. Thats //mnt/root in the mind picture of the newbies...lol

I love puppy to bits, but this is just stupid. A user of linux DOES have an obligation to do some studying and some learning. However that doesn't= a license to make an already confusing file structure downright cryptic. Either make root/root read as /home in all instances of puppy or make it a "." folder like root/.root where it can reside where ever it wants to, but isn't causing confusion to the newbie.

In a perfect world I would like to see a save file (encrypted or not) create a folder called /home with sub folders called /music, /pictures, /documents. This folder /home could also contains /.root.

/.root holds all the custom configuration entries a given user has made like wallpaper choice, etc. while /home has these well known folders for my stuff that I want to keep private.

Then we could have a public folder" /public" that's a good place to store whatever I want to be available to ALL users under any save_file.

Please understand, I'm not complaining. Windows users have a hard enough time trying to use linux as is. This 1 hiccup in the file system of puppy doesn't make puppy "junk"by any means.

However, it does make puppy MORE confusing and HARDER to learn, without offering ANY performance enhancement at all to the system.

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g2k
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu 31 Oct 2013, 03:58

#906 Post by g2k »

dogle wrote:It would also be very interesting to hear from our more-experienced newcomers if they feel that any other distros - for instance, Ubuntu - have offered them any advantage over Puppy in terms of newbie-friendliness.
I can speak to this point too...

Linuxlite v1.0.6 is very good for first time linux users. Everything works out of the box except "aero-snap", and theres even a fix for that. The desktop environment is xfce4.

I installed dockbarx plugin for xfce and it just works. I have a semi translucent taskbar like windows7, icons pinned to my taskbar that glow when the program is in use, just like win7. I could have window previews like win7 but opted for a list instead. I even have my focused window solid with background windows 30-40% translucent. This makes for an incredibly effective/useful desktop.Image

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nic007
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Location: Cradle of Humankind

#907 Post by nic007 »

g2k wrote:
dogle wrote:It would also be very interesting to hear from our more-experienced newcomers if they feel that any other distros - for instance, Ubuntu - have offered them any advantage over Puppy in terms of newbie-friendliness.
I can speak to this point too...

Linuxlite v1.0.6 is very good for first time linux users. Everything works out of the box except "aero-snap", and theres even a fix for that. The desktop environment is xfce4.

I installed dockbarx plugin for xfce and it just works. I have a semi translucent taskbar like windows7, icons pinned to my taskbar that glow when the program is in use, just like win7. I could have window previews like win7 but opted for a list instead. I even have my focused window solid with background windows 30-40% translucent. This makes for an incredibly effective/useful desktop.Image
Why don't you install XFCE4 on Puppy? You have a choice.

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g2k
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu 31 Oct 2013, 03:58

#908 Post by g2k »

[/quote]Why don't you install XFCE4 on Puppy? You have a choice.[/quote]

I did instal xfce4 on puppy. It caused more headaches than it solved.

Also, regular puppy with jwm+calmblue jwm theme [gtk set to polished blue theme] is hard to beat both looks wise and contrast wise (spelled: over 40 eyesight w/12" screen).

I also couldn't get dockbarx plugin to work in xfce4 on puppy, and that's OK, I like the above jwm setup anyway.

All I'm trying to say is that any newbie user of linux who's concerned or desires familiarity with M$ Windows, will feel more comfortable with Linuxlite 1.0.6 than with say Joli cloud OS, or even puppy.

Linuxlite isn't for everyone and certainly isn't for every computer. It does offer a quick and easy way to have a top tier OS every bit as capable as XP, or 7. The cost being 2-3 hours of your time, but, (YMMV).

Barleycorn
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri 08 Nov 2013, 13:40

#909 Post by Barleycorn »

Puppy is great! But the explanations and how to’s for uEFI booting, specifically how to get your Mac to boot puppy from a USB stick, are certainly lacking or at least not that easy to find.

I don’t know how many hours I spent partitioning, setting boot flags, working with rEFInd, getting various bootloaders elilo, Grub, and Grub2 to recognize my Puppy files without any success. All I wanted to do was to boot my imac (imac8,1) from a USB into Puppy. Google turns up many posts on how others did it but 90% of the how-to’s address bios booting and the ones that were mac specific didn’t worked for me. I could burn the various iso files to CD and boot from that. Live CD's worked great but I wanted to boot from USB.

In the end, I came across a sentence buried deep within a web page somewhere that stated something to the effect that 32 bit Kernels do not support EFI booting . Which lead me to the realization that the puppy distro’s I was using (Precise, Slacko) were 32 bit ( I thought a downloaded a 64 bit version as my imac is 64 bit, but turns out it is a 32 bit version of Puppy for a 64 bit PC). This lead me to Fatdog64, a true 64 bit puppy (Lighthouse is another), which had a FAQ on installing to Windows 8 (EFI boot). It was so simple I thought there was no way it would work on my USB stick for a mac after everything I had already tried but I did exactly what it stated using my USB instead of the Windows hard drive. I about fell out of my chair when my imac booted from the USB and loaded Fatdog64. :D

Don’t get me wrong, I am not complaining, more like a warning for other Mac users. I am sure someone with more experience could have figured this out quickly but I would certainly think someone could come up with a consistent way of booting from an EFI PC that a beginner could easily implement (maybe the answer is to just use Fatdog64 or Lighthouse64 if you need EFI-booting).

I should also point out that this is a great website for learning about EFI and bios booting -> www.rodsbooks.com. There is even a detailed procedure for EFI-booting Ubuntu on a mac but it is not really something I would recommend for a beginner.

Schlaffi
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue 03 Jan 2012, 20:57
Location: Sweden and Germany

#910 Post by Schlaffi »

Hi!

I am using Puppy without probs and. love it very much.

The only problem is that the informations a newbie needs are not at one central place. And the homepage is chaos, not well organized.

Then its important to advice a newbie Puppy Version with Frisbee. Without it many newbies has problems with internet connection.

Where you get which Puppy version? Why there is no central place for torrents? (or hard to find)

That all for today, folks.
Thank you, Barry, and all the community for Puppy.

Regards,
Dirk

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NickAu
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon 30 Dec 2013, 04:32
Location: Far North Coast NSW ɹÇ￾punuÊ￾op

#911 Post by NickAu »

Hi guys

Never used Linux much before ( once or twice) till i stumbled on a youtube video "mum uses puppy linux" so i googled it and it lead me to simplicity 14.
as it was a small download I figured hey why not try this so i did. WOW this is for real never figured linux was this GOOD All the stuff i need to browse the net on my net book none of the crap I don't need I was so inpressed I installed it on my ( don't laugh Pendo u1000 netbook) It loads fast I had no probs getting it to go online thru wifi

Keep up the great work you won me over
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serdal22
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu 02 Jan 2014, 11:23
Location: Canada

#912 Post by serdal22 »

I have been using Linux OS for 13 years. I am still newbie.

I tried to install some (Many) Linux distros into my 11 months old computer these days, but I had problems with many of them, which I hadn't had those problems with their older versions. Basically installation or lack of some package problems.

Now I needed a more reliable, easy to install, fast, and USER FRIENDLY distro.

I decided to give Lupu a try. I have been very much impressed! The Calc, Writer, the colours and graphics are very beautiful and very well done.

This old problem seems like continues: "Close to impossible" hardship of HD installation. I tried three times to install the Lupu into my computer with no luck. This problem has got to be solved as soon as possible. The installation has to be automated once you click on "Install" icon and answering a few basic questions such as time, location, passwords etc . . .

I wish I knew a lot more and could have helped. This is a wonderful Linux distro, and please do not lose the newbies because of a small installation hardship.

Thank you all for your great inputs and precious helps.

Serdal

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Moose On The Loose
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Joined: Thu 24 Feb 2011, 14:54

#913 Post by Moose On The Loose »

serdal22 wrote:I have been using Linux OS for 13 years. I am still newbie.

I tried to install some (Many) Linux distros into my 11 months old computer these days, but I had problems with many of them, which I hadn't had those problems with their older versions. Basically installation or lack of some package problems.

Now I needed a more reliable, easy to install, fast, and USER FRIENDLY distro.

I decided to give Lupu a try. I have been very much impressed! The Calc, Writer, the colours and graphics are very beautiful and very well done.

This old problem seems like continues: "Close to impossible" hardship of HD installation. I tried three times to install the Lupu into my computer with no luck. This problem has got to be solved as soon as possible. The installation has to be automated once you click on "Install" icon and answering a few basic questions such as time, location, passwords etc . . .

I wish I knew a lot more and could have helped. This is a wonderful Linux distro, and please do not lose the newbies because of a small installation hardship.

Thank you all for your great inputs and precious helps.

Serdal
Can you tell us step by step what you did and where the trouble happened. I have installed Puppy on many machines now as I'm sure others have. The solution may be something as simple as a bit of wording in one of the dialog boxes that has led you astray. If we can track down the problem, I am sure we can help you and the next guy too.

Raj
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue 17 Dec 2013, 15:44

#914 Post by Raj »

Puppy indeed is a good option, but to make it a better, we may think of getting these included --
1. Changing the login ID & password -- at least an option. Now-a-days, locks are used for keeping animal out of your home, not the robbers but you know, OWN password means a feeling of reliance.
2. Uploading of all "How to" in a separate FAQ section, so that learning can be easier (I personally thank all the puppy-users for their cordial supportive attitude, but if all the stuffs are centralised & easily usable, then people will get more attractions)
3. More tweaking options -- installed applications are very good but my needs differ with you & so the defaults of applications.
4. In case of full installation, puppy should automatically mount all linux drives.

Thanks,
Raj

Oh Carolina
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat 25 Jan 2014, 10:36
Location: England

Saved by Puppy Carolina

#915 Post by Oh Carolina »

Hi and thanks so much.
I had an old Acer PC that had no operating system since linux mint crashed.
I couldn't install any os until at last Puppy Carolina Installed and now I have a usable machine again.Ta so much.

dogle
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu 11 Oct 2007, 12:41

#916 Post by dogle »

serdal 22, thanks, and I hope you get to read this, because Moose On The Loose has mentioned something - with which I ardently agree! - which could make a little more feedback from you (and from others in the same situation) especially valuable.
The solution may be something as simple as a bit of wording in one of the dialog boxes that has led you astray.
This thread had revealed that installation issues are the second biggest bugbear for newcomers to Puppy - this was evident pretty early on, and it is quite disturbing that the Puppy community still hasn't quite managed to plug this big hole in acceptability to newcomers.

There is, however, a problem ... although I have vague memories of tearing my hair out, as a Puppy newbie years ago, when foxed by ambiguous dialog box wording, I couldn't remember just what is was that upset me to save my life. It seems (to me at least) that once you are over that nasty initial comprehension hurdle and progressing, the memory of what caused you so much grief evaporates in a trice.

It is therefore particularly valuable if newcomers can point to specific causes of confusion in dialog boxes, urgently - whilst that memory is fresh, before it swiftly fades - because, as Moose had indicated, just a minor change in wording can make a huge difference to a whole lot of people.

(Don't be shy, folks - do jump in on this one!).

canyoureallysmellme from
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat 01 Feb 2014, 19:10

new today

#917 Post by canyoureallysmellme from »

Hi ya all!
Just got online first time here. Been interested in Linux for about 2 years, as my computer was old and somehow I found out about Ubuntu, and then found Xubuntu and thence Puppy. I was, and still am, getting put off my the tone of Microsoft, it seems over-managed and as if they are taking control of your every move. No doubt the USA government have a hand or two in the way it is developing...what a tool for mass control and gathering of people's data! So I prefer Puppy. However it is initially harder to use, and the graphics are totally different in feel to Windows, Windows is a good looking beast. Anyway what I REALLY like about Puppy is that it can run off a CD, with no hard drive in the computer and a low spec cheap, the sort "no one wants anymore" type of computer. Being paranoid, or just security conscious, Puppy is a great plus for online banking and to feel hack proof. No need for this constant fidgitting about virus protection you get with Windows, no sales pitches for this,- that,- and the other, software, no enforced up grades of hardware due to software demands. Great! And it costs nothing! But think of all the people who spent hours on this project. Thank you for your sweat and tears.

But it has not been without my sweat and tears to get the thing going. For the none-technical users, like me, a very simple disk with less on it would be good. But as I got bolder I have just explored how to remove pup packages and then remastered, in a fashion, my own Puppy. Being paranoid I have tried to remove all Wifi, Transmission, mail, remote access, chat and Shh telnet such programmes, as I fear these could be used to access the computer by clever people who shall always find a way to remain nameless. I managed to put in the fire wall tray thing, so I can see firewall is definitely working (I use Wary 5.2.2 due to the age of my machine). So now feel a bit more secure coming online. Shame you cannot set up the printer and change the keyboard without making a save file. And the sound wont play, ...well it did once or twice, but seemed to go on the blink after I used Xorg instead of Xvesa...is that possibly, a bug? I think the warysave file must represent a security risk, as a save-file has to be put on re-writable media, and so while online I suppose a person could get access and change things? I now deliberately use a laptop that is not equipped with wifi or an inbuilt camera for this reason, as I think these can be used in reverse as spy aides into one's room. Of course the internet is full of evesdroppers anyway! Recently I used a wifi enabled laptop, but think it logged on automatically to someone's private wifi, due to my using a new android phone (when wifi is used for the very first time on the phone, I read, it fetches passwords down from Cloud storage, and if the other person has "backed up their data" (ie: the unencrypted password was sent up to the Android Cloud storage) on thier android you get their password sent to you! :P It is a security flaw, but if you like doing things like that, then to do it again, so I read, just reset the phone so it acts like a new one....so I read...yikes! Reading that did not help me feel secure. Anyway, it was a genuine accident, but they were not happy so see me logged in. I was not happy they had access to my computer contents. How pleased I was to be using a Puppy CD with no harddrive...they could not send me any resident spyware via the connection if they wanted to. So my aim is to make a secure puppy just for accessing the Internet. And put the hard drive in (with a pup save file on it), when working off line. OR have another computer perhaps for offline work. But I may try to sell the other one now. So a Puppy, super simple, for beginners...no jargon or tangles, only of use for getting online in a super secure way.

Dewbie

#918 Post by Dewbie »

canyoureallysmellme from wrote:
Being paranoid I have tried to remove all Wifi, Transmission, mail, remote access, chat and Shh telnet such programmes, as I fear these could be used to access the computer by clever people who shall always find a way to remain nameless.
You could also do that this way.

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rufwoof
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Re: new today

#919 Post by rufwoof »

canyoureallysmellme from wrote:But it has not been without my sweat and tears to get the thing going. For the none-technical users, like me, a very simple disk with less on it would be good.
+1.

Harware detection didn't pick up my graphics card/monitor. Network detection didn't detect my wi-fi adapter. After a lot of effort I finally got it working and had to learn how to remaster another boot CD etc.

I'd rather see a slim CD that was extremely good at detecting hardware and establishing a internet connection- where thereafter whatever programs you wanted could then be added (PET's/SFS files), than the current arrangement of having to jump through hoops just to get a clean boot up and internet connection.

Tried Knoppix and it detected everything ok - but comes with everything (bloated) and no (easy) savefile option like puppy has.

Bottom line I want a read only pristine (virus/trogan free) version to boot to when doing more sensitive actions (paying for things, online banking etc.) and accepting of a potentially infiltrated/more exposed version for just doing general stuff. Puppy appears great for that, but many wouldn't pass the entrance exam/test.
But as I got bolder I have just explored how to remove pup packages and then remastered, in a fashion, my own Puppy. Being paranoid I have tried to remove all Wifi, Transmission, mail, remote access, chat and Shh telnet such programmes, as I fear these could be used to access the computer by clever people who shall always find a way to remain nameless.
Just boot to CD only (pfix=ram) when doing online banking and such-like. Otherwise just boot as normal (load savefile), dont worry about security so much as if that gets breached the hacker only gets to see uninteresting stuff.

My overall preference would be for a Knoppix like hardware detection and ease of getting on line, plus browser i.e. slimmed right down version. With puppy like savefile and PET's/SFS's

kayuz
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 15:02

#920 Post by kayuz »

Hi to all!!! I've found Puppy Linux while was searching for a Linux distro for my girlfriend's old pc and found it surprisingly good!!!

It's very fast but I've something to tell:

I will suggest you to enamble an update center for all,will let things easier...
then also when inserting usb drives like phones like Galaxy Note 2... mounting should be easier and faster...

Homewer for its size is incredible! Good work and... of course keep it up!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D

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