(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

I built, or maybe packaged is a better word, two installers for 4.2.1 std and retro kernels that install Puppy to Windows XP or 2000.

Why? To make it very easy for Windows users to try Puppy, of course.

Features:
No need to burn ISOs onto CDs.
They create frugal installs without formatting the hard drive.
It is a single file win32 exe that installs just like other windows software.
GRUB4DOS (grldr) is used to boot, (Lin'N'Win method).
Automatic menu.lst creation.
Automatic and safe rewrite of boot.ini to boot either Puppy or Windows XP/2000.
Both std and retro versions can exist together.
Each version can be uninstalled independently of each other through the Windows control panel, just like other Windows software.
If both versions are uninstalled the user can have the computer boot straight into Windows, or continue to use GRUB4DOS, as grldr and menu.lst are not uninstalled.
The installer files are almost the same size as the Puppy ISO, about 100MB each.

Misc info:
These were created using freeware so there are no license issues.
No registry changes or other silly stuff.
The files installed to drive c:\ are grldr, menu.lst, boot.ini.bkp, and a folder containing the 3 needed Puppy files and the readme. A single exe is placed in c:\windows that is used for uninstalling, and is deleted during the uninstall.
Uninstalling removes all .2fs and .sfs files from the Puppy folder and the folder itself, unless the user puts other files there, per std Win uninstalls.

I have tested these in Win XP home edition and Win 2000 pro, both in VMware and HD systems with ntfs file systems.

However.. (you knew this was coming) further testing needs to be done with sata hard drives and other file systems (FAT32). Multi user systems too if possible. I only have IDE drives on my rather dated systems. I would also like to hear any constructive criticism and ideas about this.

If you think this is a good idea, volunteers are needed to test and give feedback.

Thanks for your interest
Seeker

Edit: June 30 2009
The Builder to distribute your own Puppy to Windows users.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 295#320295

Sounds excellent.
AND ...
Given an ill-tempered rant you can find elsewhere on the forum about the ease or otherwise of installing puppy on a usb stick, perhaps you could give that project some attention as a possibility?

(Just 'cause someone can't express themselves politely it doesn't detract from there being some value in the ideas they express)

paul

perhaps you could give that project some attention as a possibility?

Well if you think the idea has merit, then OK. Making a win32 app to install Puppy to a USB stick is a piece of cake from the looks of it. I made a bootable USB by hand (in XP) in about 60 seconds after reading up on it. My computers here at work won't boot from USB so I'll have to try it when I get home. If that one won't I suppose I could upload it here for you to try. You would have to supply your own files from the Puppy CD though.

Interested enough to try it? It might take a little while, the response to my original post is a little overwhelming right now, you know.

Seeker

although this isn't a personal hobbyhorse, I'm most happy to give it a go ... I like testing new software and I do think a windows-based instalelr for Puppy (whether to hd or usb) has substantial merit -- (for whatever my opinion is worth)


drop me a pm when you have something. I'll keep an eye on this thread anyway.

paul

Sounds very promising. MU made something like this:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=16041
but no uninstaller. I used it and it kind of worked (with a little help) installing Boxpup. Please post when you get it uploaded somewhere and I will test it. If your app turns out to be solid I think it would be a great thing to include in Puppy 5. I always try to talk people into trying out Linux and if this thing works (the uninstaller is the key) they will have no excuse not to. I have gotten people to try the Ubuntu WUBI thing and most like it but don't stick with it because it is just as slow as Window$. Same thing with Live CD's, well, not Puppy but they don't want to have to put a CD in to boot up their PC.

I will test the s#^& out of this thing if you really get going on it. I am not sure how sourceforge works but maybe you could put it up as a project on there. There are also sites like Megauplaod but I am not sure how those work either. How big is your app?

There are a few other threads relating to stuff like this, I am going to go post links to here.

I can't speak for him but I am sure Ecomoney would put this on his site http://www.ecomoney.eu/puppy/ somewhere based on what I have read of his posts on stuff like this.

You can be sure I will put it on http://www.puppylinux.org/downloads as well as http://www.ecomoney.co.uk.

When it is working again.

For the moment I would be happy to provide you with an ftp account at www.ecomoney.eu, details via pm.

seeker, you have truly discovered the "holy grail" when it comes to giving people the ability to try Puppy Linux. Enabling a smooth transition when migrating from closed to open source systems is the key to its success and acceptance...this is an extremely useful tool to enable this. 9/10 people in the world still use Microsoft on their computers...something that needs to change if it is to become a freer place.

For ideas on how to make this even easier there are some good ideas on this thread

ClickOtherOS-2.3 - a dual boot helper

There is also some discussion on this thread that would be of interest

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=40612

Of course....there is just one other real life situation that Windows users are more willing to try Linux for the first time.....more willing than even with a working Windows/Linux dual boot set up.....

As a "repair" to non-booting/virused windows XP machine, as a free alternative to an expensive/time consuming/difficult Windows re-install.

I imagine it would be possible to use the same principles you have used here to install a bootloader from a PuppyCD, although obviously not in .exe form. Seeker, It would be useful to other projects if you would document the precise method you use here to give people their choice of computer operating system back easily.

It would also be useful to know how to update easily the version of puppy linux installed using this tool, or to provide a simple facility for this if there is not one already (preferably one that doesnt require Windows or Windows Coding Skills to update it!).

I currently have about 40 computers of various ages that have windows installed, that have been donated to me to recycle. These are all going to eventually have their hard drives totally wiped in any case. I would be happy (and honored) to use them as test subjects for a worthy project such as this. Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.

@Max Uglee

I think it would be a great thing to include in Puppy 5

Nope, sorry. It couldn't be included in Puppy because Puppy is inside the installer. I do appreciate the offer of testing.

@Ecomoney

For the moment I would be happy to provide you with an ftp account at www.ecomoney.eu, details via pm

Thanks, I'll get back to you on that.

you have truly discovered the "holy grail" when it comes to giving people the ability to try Puppy Linux

Flattery will get you everywhere. Really, all I want to do is make it easier for Windows users to try Puppy. When I first made up my mind to try Linux about 2 years ago, I had to order CDs because I didn't have a CD or DVD burner and I was on dial-up. After buying a bunch and not liking them I gave up for a while. I eventually found Puppy and bought a burner. You can see that it was starting to get expensive. If I could have downloaded a 100 MB file and installed it like I was accustomed to doing things I would have jumped on it.

It would be useful to other projects if you would document the precise method you use here

The exe is made with a freeware install maker that packages whatever files you want installed. I didn't code that part. I wrote a couple of tiny very simple console apps with FreeBASIC that the installer executes at certain times. Really simple stuff. The method is not very flexible yet as certain parts are hard coded for each Puppy version and the Puppy iso files have to be included in the compiled install file. That's something I hope to address. Everything will be documented eventually.

Who knows, maybe this idea will catch on and other developers will pitch in.

On another note, I have successfully coded a Win32 app to create a bootable Puppy USB install. I'll post that in another topic when it's ready for trial.

Seeker

Seeker I do applaud what you are doing
but my XP days have eXPired . . .so can not test . . .
Good that Max Uglee is helping out

I did have a look at creating such an XP installer using auto-it
a long time ago - but it was too much for my little brain - so well done.

What I am intrigued with is Puppy running from XP or temp booting
for secure usage such as *ank transactions (that is a missing 'b' now that *anking is a swear word . . .)
I really find the idea of family members using IE and NSA
closed source software (oops I mean Windows) a little security slack - they do too - this might get them Puppified . . .



We did have Qemu-Puppy - great documentation but slow . . .
Anyway before I go completely off topic . . . well done

Puppy Power

Indeed an interesting project - keep it up. Will try to test at every opportunity.

The first test files are up on the server.
http://puppylinux.ca/members/seeker/

My heartfelt gratitude to Eric for hosting these files and the service he provides to the Puppy community.

Please read and heed the Read_Me_Before_Installing.html file in the zip.

Seeker

Mirror

http://www.ecomoney.eu/puppy/winstaller

I understand Caneri's Mirror has been under a DDOS attack, best be on the safe side. I am uploading files now, available about two hours from the time of this post.

Seeker, I read your HTML Help file...it is very comprehensive in the points the user of this script should consider. I feel the same points could be worded in a more encouraging way. I have helped/persuaded/coerced many windows users to try Puppy, and am fluent in "newblish" . If you would consider updating it I would be happy to contribute here.

Are you aware of self extracting ZIP files?

hi seeker...
can this be edited so that it can be use to install other puplets as well??? if so how can I do this???

thanks in advance...

ecomoney wrote: I have helped/persuaded/coerced many windows users to try Puppy, and am fluent in "newblish" Laughing Cool . If you would consider updating it I would be happy to contribute here.

Yes, please. It is rather blunt, isn't it. Another thing. When you get around to testing it, when the last installed Puppy is removed there is a prompt about removing the option of starting Puppy that needs rewording too. What it needs to convey is the option of booting straight into Windows or keeping the Windows startup menu 'as is'.

moogsydodong wrote: can this be edited so that it can be use to install other puplets as well??? if so how can I do this???

At the moment, no. That is one one of the things I really want to implement. If I fail to accomplish this it can still be done manually by building a separate installer the way I do it now. It's not very difficult. Eventually that will all be documented with a tutorial.

Seeker

I'm downloading this at home(at work right now). Will be testing on at least 2 machines Sunday.

I suck, I'm sorry guys, forgot about defragging. It will be a couple of days.

just thinking aloud ...

how possible is it to create an installer program that runs doesn't contain the Puppy distribution, buit instead allows the user to select a previously downloaded ISO and install it where they wish ...

thank you very much for this files!! They have done my life very easier!
If I had the opportunity to install with the same way the puppy version that I need for the Acer Aspire One,I would be very happy and my friends finally would giving a try to their AAO too! It works fine,thanks again!

Ok I found that the std version file must have a bug,because after installation,it stops to the searching of modules at the booting screen. I tried this to my acer aspire one mini laptop,so I have not tested somewhere else. The other file,the retro version is running good,but it has not the wlan driver for my wifi card,so I find a way to use this exe.file to install the version that I have already for my AAO. If you want to try the other versions of the pupplets and you want the installation to be so easy with this exe file ,you have to do just these simple steps.

Install the Win32_Puppy421retro-install version to your computer.
Then go to the c:\ folder and find the p421retro-instal folder and replace the files initrd.gz , vmlinuz and pup_421.sfs with the same files that you will find into your distribution's folder or boot cd of the new puplet that you want to install. The first 2 files will be the same and the sfs file maybe it will have different name,depends from the version,for example mine was pup_410.sfs .
After this,make a restart and boot normally to your new puplet version from the same place that you would boot for the previous version.

Enjoy it!

Arvacon

Paulh177,

I think what you want is basically what MU created, perhaps with a bit more flexibility and brought up to date with the latest Puppy.

As I intimated on the Puppy 2 Installer thread I would like to get this going in a Lin'N'Win way (except to use the TinyCoreLinux approach to integrating grldr with Windows).

I have started work on this but I work kinda slow, especially when the sun comes out!

If you have any specific requirements that MU did not meet I would be interested in hearing about them so that I can consider them.

I like what Seeker is doing, especially as he follows a Lin'N'Win approach, but like you I prefer to download the official ISO and then install it rather than have to get a separate ISO, which may not be on a fast server like the official ISO. However, Ecomoney has a requirement where someone can get a disk (with ISO and installer), install it and then pass the disk on. Seeker is certainly meeting this need and is to be applauded for it. MU's approached can be adjusted to be placed on a Puppy CD and I am looking at that.

Seeker,

When messing with my Windows system I like to know what is happening to make sure I don't mess it up. This means the source is very important to me. I do hope that documentation, at least the source code routines, appears soon. I know that is not a newbie rquirement but it is a GPL requirement! It helps the community to find any bugs too.