TEENpup 2009 Legacy available for Download

News, happenings
Message
Author
User avatar
puppyluvr
Posts: 3470
Joined: Sun 06 Jan 2008, 23:14
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma
Contact:

#46 Post by puppyluvr »

:D Hello,
@Hey John,
Congrats on the reception Teenpup `09 is receiving!!!
#1 D/L on Softpedia!!!

Mic67

#47 Post by Mic67 »

@Hey John,
Congrats on the reception Teenpup `09 is receiving!!!
#1 D/L on Softpedia!!!

-------------------

When you get to a certain age you find it important to let people know what you think!!

Good Job....much appreciated. Objective sufficently achieved.

Mic67

TheProphet
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon 18 Feb 2008, 06:22

#48 Post by TheProphet »

Cool.

I've already got TEENpup 2008 installed but have been using 2009 for the past few days. I especially was happy that my mostest favorite game of all time is installed by default, Minesweeper.

How do I install it as a "version upgrade" which I've not done on Puppy yet? Point me to the tutorial. (I know there is one)

This one is a contender that will blow Windoze' s--errr "Stuff" in the weeds.

I can see absolutely nothing the Win users usually complain about.

Molte Bravissimo.

And I take it that it won't install readily on SCSI...
He who skydive without parachute, jumps to own conclusion.

User avatar
john biles
Posts: 1458
Joined: Sun 17 Sep 2006, 14:05
Location: Australia
Contact:

#49 Post by john biles »

Hello richard.a,
Thank you for all the testing you've done, it must have taken hours! It shows that TEENpup only suits a number of PC's and Laptops out there. I have a 2001 Compaq Presario 1200 with 800Mhz Pentium III and TEENpup works fine on that.
It saddens me to see all those Users who are having downloaded TEENpup and it doesn't work on their PC's. I know I'm not alone as some of the Big names in Linux haven't worked on my equipment either.

Hello TheProphet,
As TEENpup 2009 Legacy is still based on Puppy 2.14 like TEENpup 2008 was, it may be not upgradeable. you may have to save your important files on an external Hard drive or another partition and wipe 2008 and install 2009. If someone has a better trick for this please let us know.
Legacy OS 2017 has been released.

User avatar
richard.a
Posts: 513
Joined: Tue 15 Aug 2006, 08:00
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

#50 Post by richard.a »

Post reserved for comments.

What I'm doing is to attempt to install on another machine and then copy the files to the machine with SATA drives. Then provide the files as a web download.

Puppy will normally work this way - with copying between IDE drives because of the magnificently simple configuration procedure. I do it all the time.

I have also done it with ver 9.3 SuSE (with its YaST configurator) and Linspire 4.5, 5.0 and 5.1 extremely successfully, all because of user-friendly re-configuration, of which the Linspire one is the easiest. You merely pick a menu item in Grub :)

It works between IDE computers in both the pup_save and the install type 2 to partition modes.

It may take a couple of days. Keep you posted.

Richard
[i]Have you noticed editing is always needed for the inevitable typos that weren't there when you hit the "post" button?[/i]

[img]http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/416434.png[/img]

davesurrey
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue 05 Aug 2008, 18:12
Location: UK

#51 Post by davesurrey »

From an initial first view it seems that this is a very fine distro for which many thanks John.

However it's clear in this thread that a fair few are having problems installing it.

For the record I don't have any SATA HDDs nor DVD/CDs. But I have tried 5 times to do a frugal install to different partitions and have only had 2 successes.

I confirm that I haven't tried using a psubdir as I understand it doesn't work.

For the record I have had no trouble installing Puppy 214X (ttuuxxx's revised 214R) nor any other puppy on this PC.

I could only get it working if I used a partition without any other puppy and using the following grub stanza.

Code: Select all

title TeenPup 2.14 frugal on hdb5
    rootnoverify (hd1,4) 
    kernel (hd1,4)/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PMEDIA=idehd PDEV1=hdb5 acpi=force 
    initrd (hd1,4)/initrd.gz

After each re-boot I get "Useful Tips" which I can disengage but also PDrive (Puppy Drive Manager) always comes up at the start. Is there a sway of stopping this. Personally I find it annoying.

Cheers
Dave

User avatar
richard.a
Posts: 513
Joined: Tue 15 Aug 2006, 08:00
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

#52 Post by richard.a »

Dave, interesting post. And I guess the key is that "one size fits all" doesn't work with Puppy. Come to think of it, it doesn't work with other *nixes either.
davesurrey wrote:

Code: Select all

title TeenPup 2.14 frugal on hdb5
    rootnoverify (hd1,4) 
    kernel (hd1,4)/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PMEDIA=idehd PDEV1=hdb5 acpi=force 
    initrd (hd1,4)/initrd.gz
Interesting you put this line in... rootnoverify (hd1,4) - I've only ever seen that used in a Windows or a DOS environment.
Saying that, I believe that a frugal install has to be in a FAT partition, from memory. Perhaps that's why you have the line in there?
davesurrey wrote: After each re-boot I get "Useful Tips" which I can disengage but also PDrive (Puppy Drive Manager) always comes up at the start. Is there a sway of stopping this. Personally I find it annoying.
Cheers
Dave
In my exploration of Live running in those several boxes, I saw it happen, too, but not on every instance. I wish I'd made a note of it, now. Sorry.
When I can get back on to this I'll try several type 2 installs on those various boxes, but this will entail resizing partitions to allow that to happen. It all takes time, though.

Someone asked about dotpups and dotpets. I tried one of each, because based on 2.14 it should. And the two I tried (live) work well. Forget which they were. But it's probably quicker to try and report that it does work, than wait and see if someone picks the question up. Not being picky, because I've also asked. If you try it live in a pfix=ram environment, it doesn't matter if you break it :)

Richard
[i]Have you noticed editing is always needed for the inevitable typos that weren't there when you hit the "post" button?[/i]

[img]http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/416434.png[/img]

davesurrey
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue 05 Aug 2008, 18:12
Location: UK

#53 Post by davesurrey »

Hello Richard,
Thanks for your post.
And I guess the key is that "one size fits all" doesn't work with Puppy. Come to think of it, it doesn't work with other *nixes either.
Yes, totally agree with you but Teenpup and also ttuuxxx's 214X have started my interest in the older puppies and both these seem so good that I really would like to understand them (including their limitations) so I can install over a range of PCs.
I believe that a frugal install has to be in a FAT partition
No, I understand that whereas a frugal install can be to a FAT partition it doesn't have to be and ext2 and ext3 are equally as good (some would say better.) I have plenty of examples working on my PC here.
Interesting you put this line in... rootnoverify (hd1,4)
Well it also works just using "root" in place of "rootnoverify" but I usually use the latter for all my frugal grub stanzas. And the 4-series manual uses rootnoverify for a frugal install (root for a full install.) Perhaps it's just my habit.

Good luck with your testing on all those older PCs.

Cheers
Dave

User avatar
Artie
Posts: 448
Joined: Tue 04 Oct 2005, 17:45
Location: Norway
Contact:

#54 Post by Artie »

I have been reading through this thread and I'm very impressed by the quality of the latest teenpup. Since I'm a distro junkie in my experience installing any distro is gambling and many of the big ones can't be installed or don't work properly on my machine.

I'm also very impressed with the testing richard.a has done and he has some very good points. I'm especially interested in 24hour clock and the locale setting. John, may I suggest that you start a new thread calling it "TEENpup 2009 Legacy FAQ" or something similar where you address some of these questions and provide suggestions for solving them? Keep up the good work!

Artie

User avatar
john biles
Posts: 1458
Joined: Sun 17 Sep 2006, 14:05
Location: Australia
Contact:

#55 Post by john biles »

Hello davesurrey,
If open the hidden file .xinitrc in the root (home) folder and navigate to:

##v2.14 rarsa: update xdg menu for w.m. that do not allow includes...
#which ${CURRENTWM}_menu_refresh && ${CURRENTWM}_menu_refresh
#...no, now doing it differently, see /usr/sbin/fixmenus

wavplay /usr/share/audio/2barks.wav &
/usr/bin/karamba &
/usr/local/pdrive/pdrive_daemon &
/opt/kde/bin/ktip &
#kdialog --passivepopup "Applications like Vuse and Open Office may take up to a minute to start up on older Hardware, please be patient..." 5
#kdialog --passivepopup "Applications like ZynAddSubFX and TVtime may fail to START on Low RAM PC's..." 5
/usr/bin/amor &

#exec $CURRENTWM
#v2.11 GuestToo suggested this improvement...
and put a # in front of any of these lines you can turn off what you don't want.

wavplay /usr/share/audio/2barks.wav & = Sound at startup
/usr/bin/karamba & = Starts karamba side panel
/usr/local/pdrive/pdrive_daemon & = Starts pdrive's daemon
/opt/kde/bin/ktip & = Starts ktip TEENpup's tips
/usr/bin/amor & = Little cat at bottom of screen

so if wanted to turn off all of them it would look like this:


#wavplay /usr/share/audio/2barks.wav &
#/usr/bin/karamba &
#/usr/local/pdrive/pdrive_daemon &
#/opt/kde/bin/ktip &
#/usr/bin/amor &

I hope this helps :D
Legacy OS 2017 has been released.

davesurrey
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue 05 Aug 2008, 18:12
Location: UK

#56 Post by davesurrey »

Hello John,
Thank you for reply which was very helpful.

Unfortunately I can't put it into practise as I am struggling to get TeenPup to install on my test PC.

I have got it working before (and have ttuuxxx's 214x installed okay) but it seems 2 series based Puppys are a lot harder to get running than the 4 series I "grew up" on.

Not giving up as TeenPup really does look so good so reading through the forum for help.

Thanks again for the help.
Dave

User avatar
ttuuxxx
Posts: 11171
Joined: Sat 05 May 2007, 10:00
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia
Contact:

#57 Post by ttuuxxx »

davesurrey wrote:Hello John,
Thank you for reply which was very helpful.

Unfortunately I can't put it into practise as I am struggling to get TeenPup to install on my test PC.

I have got it working before (and have ttuuxxx's 214x installed okay) but it seems 2 series based Puppys are a lot harder to get running than the 4 series I "grew up" on.

Not giving up as TeenPup really does look so good so reading through the forum for help.

Thanks again for the help.
Dave
Hi Dave did you try the 4 series grub pet package I put together on the 2.14.1X thread?
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... h&id=19435
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

davesurrey
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue 05 Aug 2008, 18:12
Location: UK

#58 Post by davesurrey »

ttuuxxx, Gosh you are here and there and everywhere. :) Just finished a message to you on your 214X thread.

No, haven't used this yet. What does it do? I don't want to change my MBR and the existing grub I have been using for months and months seems perfectly fine and besides there are issues with Puppy's grub and inodes.

But if you can let me know what this does, what are the improvements/changes then I can judge what to do.

Reading the forum I am finding out that having two versions of 2-series save-files may cause problems. Investigating this now. Looking for a work around to keep 214X and teenpup files in sub folders, just like 4 series. Not going to give up. Must be mad! :)

Cheers
Dave

User avatar
ttuuxxx
Posts: 11171
Joined: Sat 05 May 2007, 10:00
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia
Contact:

#59 Post by ttuuxxx »

davesurrey wrote:ttuuxxx, Gosh you are here and there and everywhere. :) Just finished a message to you on your 214X thread.

No, haven't used this yet. What does it do? I don't want to change my MBR and the existing grub I have been using for months and months seems perfectly fine and besides there are issues with Puppy's grub and inodes.

But if you can let me know what this does, what are the improvements/changes then I can judge what to do.

Reading the forum I am finding out that having two versions of 2-series save-files may cause problems. Investigating this now. Looking for a work around to keep 214X and teenpup files in sub folders, just like 4 series. Not going to give up. Must be mad! :)

Cheers
Dave
Well you said you were having install issues, so that pet is the updated installer/grub from 4 series, still in the testing phase for 2 series and probably better to use it on your test pc.
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

davesurrey
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue 05 Aug 2008, 18:12
Location: UK

#60 Post by davesurrey »

so that pet is the updated installer/grub
Just to be clear does that modify not just the grub-installer but the Puppy universal installer as well? If it does then I'll certainly give it a try. If not then I doubt it can help as I don't need to install grub at each puppy install to boot.
Dave

User avatar
ttuuxxx
Posts: 11171
Joined: Sat 05 May 2007, 10:00
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia
Contact:

#61 Post by ttuuxxx »

davesurrey wrote:
so that pet is the updated installer/grub
Just to be clear does that modify not just the grub-installer but the Puppy universal installer as well? If it does then I'll certainly give it a try. If not then I doubt it can help as I don't need to install grub at each puppy install to boot.
Dave
Yes both of them are included.
hope that helps.
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

davesurrey
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue 05 Aug 2008, 18:12
Location: UK

#62 Post by davesurrey »

Hang on ttuuxxx, how can I use a pet to improve the install of a puppy when it needs to be installed in the first place to use the pet.

User avatar
ttuuxxx
Posts: 11171
Joined: Sat 05 May 2007, 10:00
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia
Contact:

#63 Post by ttuuxxx »

lol what came first the chicken or the egg, lol
no-no-no this would be installed maybe in future 2.14.1x versions cd's, but for now just save it to your hard drive, boot up live on teenpup, install the pet and try to install it.
ttuuxxx
Last edited by ttuuxxx on Tue 23 Jun 2009, 20:19, edited 1 time in total.
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

davesurrey
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue 05 Aug 2008, 18:12
Location: UK

#64 Post by davesurrey »

lol what came first the chicken or the egg
Egg-zactly!

Okay I tried this and I'm afraid it didn't change anything.
I then deleted 214X4, the other Puppy 214 based install on this disk and am happy to report that Teenup installed (frugal) perfectly.

So it looks as if it's to do with having more than one 214 on the disk.
Will try to work out how to fix this tomorrow.

Dave

kethd
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu 20 Oct 2005, 12:54
Location: Boston MA USA

TEENpup 2009 Legacy review

#65 Post by kethd »

TEENpup 2009 is a very impressive bundle, a wonderful big fat pup, filling a 700MB CD. (Is there a good over-view summary guide to the Big Pups? There are so many puplets that we need a pupletwatch to sort them out...)

I tried it out on a fairly modern computer: 2800MHz Pentium 4 ASUS P4PE (2003?) 1GB, no HD. Probably more modern than the target user for TEENpup, which might be an older slower computer with less RAM but running from HD instead of CD.

The goal of TEENpup is "easy complete", and sometimes it takes "easy" a little too far. A special strength of Puppy is that because start-up configuration involves some manual choices it works reliably on a very wide range of hardware. Fancy, more automatic distros are great when they work, but harder to use when they guess wrong. For example, standard Puppy starts by asking for a mouse choice. TEENpup bypasses this with a PS/2 mouse, which means it may not work with older hardware and a serial mouse. Is there a boot parameter to control this, to specify a serial mouse?

With 1 GB RAM, the whole big pup_214.sfs is loaded during the boot. It only takes a few minutes, and mostly makes for a good fast responsive system. But with no additional swap space, it seems all too easy to run out of RAM later browsing in seamonkey, and have the whole system bog down at 100% cpu or even lock-up and freeze. It is odd to experience 1GB being "not enough" -- you'd think that there would be about 256MB free, and that should be enough to do a lot! And it would be great if browsers were intelligent enough to not ask for too many resources, in relation to what is available. Anyway, one hopes that there is a boot parameter to ask TEENpup not to load the sfs into RAM, to run from CD instead?

I was surprised and impressed that the start-up Xorg script defaulted to offering the ideal 1360x768 (ATI R200 Radeon 8500DV with Toshiba LCD TV) -- even better than current Puppy 4.x which defaults to offering 640x480 but does list 1360x768. Since TEENpup is based on 2.14, it was not surprising that 1360x768 did not actually work, but came up as 1024x768. But it is disappointing that the start-up list does not offer 1024x768 or 800x600 alternatives, just basic 640x480. And that once TEENpup has booted into the desktop, there does not seem to be any easy way to switch to other resolutions -- just very geeky Xorg config edit stuff.

Being a big fat pup, TEENpup often has many ways of doing the same thing. Which is mostly good -- if one way does not work, or doesn't work the way you want, there may well be alternatives. The default drive manager-mounter is Pdrive 027, but MUT and Pmount are also available. Pdrive is mostly OK, but got into a confused state where it could neither mount nor dismount some USB drives -- and no drive icons were present either. Pmount was able to recover the situation. USB automount is turned on by default, which can be disconcerting. It does seem possible to turn it off. It auto-mounts a USB drive immediately at the time it is plugged in. But does not mount USB drives that are already plugged in during boot!

As with any new system, there are lots of hidden gems. Try right-clicking anywhere and everywhere to discover handy features.

I was delighted to see the cpu% graph desktop widget. If there were also one for net traffic, we would finally achieve the basic level of functionality any modern OS should have. The bars monitoring RAM usage are nice, but it would be good to also have a parallel graph of remaining RAM space.

The built-in VLC was able to handle most of my sample-media tests, together with the included Real Player after a little install dialog. It seemed a little odd that mp3s default launch to something other than the mp3 player. And that the mp3 player has the "feature" I've experienced in other pups that if you close the app without stopping the audio, the audio continues, with no obvious way to stop it. (Solution: re-open the app, stop the play, then close the app.) Although Real Player is autolaunched for most appropriate media types, .ram files are not properly associated. They do play properly with right-click, open-with, Real Player. But there does not seem to be any user-friendly way to teach the system to remember this association -- just the old-school too-geeky process. There also seemed to be a general problem with volume level in some cases -- it seemed like the audio was being played "too loud" for the output hardware, and distorting; solution: set the volume down at about 10%.

The nice 4.2 Pwireless connection tool does not seem to be included. Instead there is Wireless RutilT which does not work in this case. #dmesg shows RaLink Device unknown RT61 Vendor=0x1814 Product=0x0301. The same wireless PCI card works fine in Puppy 4.x. Plugging in a network wire worked fine after manual DHCP, and later boots auto-connected DHCP some of the time.

Jpeg images open by default in GPicView 0.1.7, which sadly is the standard rather than the customized Puppy version, so no slide show features. Showimg is available, which does a good job showing automatic slideshows of a directory. The main slideshow tool offered is KuickShow, which unfortunately does not have an auto-sequence mode. The wonderful little command-line tool qiv is present, which can easily do an auto slideshow of a directory, for those comfortable with a CLI, as long as the images have already all been rotated properly.

XnView 1.70 is included, which is one of the main reasons I originally became interested in trying TEENpup (for lossless rotation). But it is not properly integrated with handling the various media types. And trying to do a simple auto slideshow of a directory is much much harder than it should be.

There often seems to be a philosophical conflict between "easy accessible" and "good for experienced users". The TEENpup design philosophy seems to be extreme "easy accessible". All main menu items are listed by just generic function phrase. Good luck guessing where XnView is hidden! Hint: nothing to do with graphics or photos. I just can't accept that the system GUI has to be either too-dumb or too-hard. I don't see why each menu item can't list both the function phrase *and* the actual name of the program, like regular Puppy does mostly. If some feel that this would be too scary for some newbies, how about an easy master mode switch on the desktop? Start-up mode would be function-phrase only, one click would add the actual names of the programs, and one more click would be program-name only. It would also be handy to have easy click access to all the desktop applications in one master combined list, alphabetical by name, so that if you knew you wanted XnView, there would be a very simple way to just find it under X.

Quibbles and glitches aside, TEENpup is a fine collection of integrated useful software. It is very tempting to want to help smooth some of the little rough edges... Are there are similar complete full-CD puplets that are 4.x based?

--- test hardware ---
Puppy 4.2.1 says:
eth0: Broadcom 44xx/47xx 10/100BaseT Ethernet
Chipset ATI Radeon 8500 AIW BB (AGP) found

4.2.1 PupScan PCI interface information:
DESCRIPTION: Intel Corporation 82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) AC'97 Audio Controller
VENDOR: 8086 DEVICE: 24c5 KERNEL MODULE: snd-intel8x0
DESCRIPTION: Broadcom Corporation BCM4401 100Base-T
VENDOR: 14e4 DEVICE: 4401 KERNEL MODULE: b44
DESCRIPTION: RaLink RT2561/RT61 802.11g PCI
VENDOR: 1814 DEVICE: 0301 KERNEL MODULE: rt61pci

Post Reply