Feedback & Bug-Fix Suggestions for Retro-Puppy 218 alpha

A home for all kinds of Puppy related projects
Message
Author
User avatar
BarryK
Puppy Master
Posts: 9392
Joined: Mon 09 May 2005, 09:23
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

#31 Post by BarryK »

OlddogNewtricks wrote:tempestuous wrote

what are your opinions about Puppy 2.12-2.16 vs Puppy218 vs ttuuxxx's 214X2?

I feel ttuuxxx's 214X2 is on a par with older pups, & feels perkier than 2.18, It still has features like the seperate ZDRV sfs file which can be dumped once you've set up for your machine & a remastering script that allows you to produce a new pup_xxx.sfs easily. (dougal's work here I believe). I've always frugall installed, so a simple remaster & replacement of the pup_xxx.sfs file is what I love about puppy. I' ve never used a pup save file so I can tinker away knowing a reboot (which literally takes seconds with puppy) brings everything back the way it was. A superb linux learning tool.
My old (3 years!) computer has a 2.5 ghz cpu & 256 ram which I could easily upgrade to 1-2 gb but why should I, that's the microsoft way.
Keep It Small & Simple

Well done Barry & everybody else involved in this tiny marvel.

phew!! thats my 10 pence worth.
218 can also be built with a separate zdrv. It's just a choice made in the Woof build script.
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]

User avatar
BarryK
Puppy Master
Posts: 9392
Joined: Mon 09 May 2005, 09:23
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

#32 Post by BarryK »

tempestuous wrote:
BarryK wrote:That is deliberate, the 'init' script has changed the test so that the sfs file only gets copied to ram if it is over 256MB.
The reason was, on a system without swap partition/file, it wasn't really leaving enough space for apps to run.
OK, that's good to know.
I think it's worth throwing in some historical perspective:

I have been following Puppy's development since version 1.02 in 2005. Puppy's technical foundation of copying the compressed filesystem to RAM was unique amongst live CD distributions. DamnSmallLinux could be forced to load into RAM with the "toram" boot option, but this was uncompressed to RAM, not compressed to RAM.
It was clear that the Puppy approach achieved the successful use of the most powerful applications with the least amount of RAM ...
of course back in those days Puppy was 50MB, and 128MB RAM was (just) adequate.

I take the point that in Puppy's current form 256MB RAM is not quite sufficient to run Puppy completely in RAM, but in such cases we now have a significantly different situation where the compressed filesystem is stored on the hard drive or flash drive, not RAM.

To my mind this raises a big question:
In situations where the computer has 256MB RAM or less, does a frugal installation offer any advantage over a full installation? Because in both cases the files are being accessed from hard drive/flash drive, and it seems logical that files would be retrieved faster from an uncompressed filesystem rather than from a compressed filesystem.

Anyone care to comment?
Well, a frugal install allows easy install and uninstall of SFS files.
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]

User avatar
ecomoney
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri 25 Nov 2005, 07:00
Location: Lincolnshire, England
Contact:

#33 Post by ecomoney »

Easy SFS Install 0.1.1 by dejan555

The frugal install/compressed layered filesystem offers much flexibility/advantages, and deals with the lowest hardware spec very well. Computer RAM (and Disk) sizes have increased significantly faster than the size of Puppy over the last five years though.

Perhaps there is a case now, for higher end computers, to have the sfs files stored uncompressed to hard disk. This would give similar speed advantages to a FULL install, plus the convenience advantages of the frugal sfs model. This could be done at first puppy shutdown where the option of saving the .sfs to the hard disk is given when saving the pup_save.2fs.

At higher ram levels (512mb/1gb + which Ive found are not uncommon nowadays even for "recycled" kit), then the sfs could be loaded already uncompressed into RAM?

As puppy linux is designed to be "friendly for linux newbies", these decisions would also need to be automated, (checking available disk space/RAM first) so that the default values for optimum speed are discovered and already set in the rc.shutdown script, with the option to change them so advanced users could still "tweak".

This way, to my thinking, would still allow puppy to run as it has on older "hardware-challenged" p.c.'s while allowing it to take full advantage of the higher capacities of newer computers.
Puppy Linux's [url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=296352#296352]Mission[/url]

Sorry, my server is down atm!

User avatar
8-bit
Posts: 3406
Joined: Wed 04 Apr 2007, 03:37
Location: Oregon

#34 Post by 8-bit »

I just thought I would try going the other way and try booting a frugal install on a Compaq Presario 3 gigs ram AMD Athalon X2 4800 dual core with Invidia GeForce 6150 SE Graphics.
I had to select Vesa for graphics and my sound card was not found.
But I could access the SATA hard drive as well as the PATA hard drive.
Also, Gxine was able to go straight to full screen with no problem just by pressing 'F'.

User avatar
nubc
Posts: 2062
Joined: Tue 23 Jan 2007, 18:41
Location: USA

#35 Post by nubc »

Have to say ugh to the yellow and brown color scheme in pup2-2.18.1. So why does this pup2 use kernel 2.6.18.1 when Puppy 2.17.1 official uses 2.6.21.1? The version of GParted in pup2 is 0.3.3, with which I had a serious hdd detection problem on a common Dell laptop (Latitude CPx 650 mhz p3), suggesting a more recent version of GParted would be advisable. For FLV playback with gxine I had to run alsaconf to get sound. Suggestion: Put a Pfind shortcut on desktop. Usability insight: move the lock icon away from the upper right corner. If things freeze and user is trying to close windows, the last thing user needs is a residual click on lock.

User avatar
01micko
Posts: 8741
Joined: Sat 11 Oct 2008, 13:39
Location: qld
Contact:

#36 Post by 01micko »

Lobster wrote: Tried a full install on the laptop
this failed at the Grub stage
Not sure if the HD is faulty (very likely)
or it did not like the XP filesystem/boot area

So maybe someone else will try an install . . .
Hi Lobster,

I did a full install successfully to my K6.

I did it like this.
  • Booted pfix=ram, had an empty HDD, and used gparted to create a swap and a couple of ext2 partitions, but you could use ext3 if you want and as many or as few as 1partitions.

    Installed GRUB, obviously there was nothing to enter in the menu.lst and nothing for grub to find but it installs ok anyway.

    Ran universal installer and proceeded in the usual way, until you get to the grub stage where you choose add an entry. Finish the installer, open the menu.lst file and the NEWGRUB.TXT file in /tmp and copy the contents of NEWGRUB.TXT to your menu.lst in the appropriate place.
Works well. :wink:

Cheers
Puppy Linux Blog - contact me for access

User avatar
01micko
Posts: 8741
Joined: Sat 11 Oct 2008, 13:39
Location: qld
Contact:

#37 Post by 01micko »

OK, now posting from the 486, transplanted the HDD from said previous full install. It works. But not too fast :) . It requires much patience (or a few beers) but nevertheless it works!

I downloaded Elinks because Seamonkey wouldn't have a hope on these specs, 50MHz cpu, 32MB ram, 130MB swap.

I would not recommend doing this. 216_fat_free-dillo from big_bass ran faster.

Cheers
Puppy Linux Blog - contact me for access

User avatar
BarryK
Puppy Master
Posts: 9392
Joined: Mon 09 May 2005, 09:23
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

#38 Post by BarryK »

nubc wrote:Have to say ugh to the yellow and brown color scheme in pup2-2.18.1. So why does this pup2 use kernel 2.6.18.1 when Puppy 2.17.1 official uses 2.6.21.1?
If I recall rightly, some people liked the older kernel more. Also that's what 214 uses I think.

But 218+ could be built with the 2.6.21.1 kernel if required.

I have made some relevant posts on my blog:

http://puppylinux.com/blog/?viewDetailed=00818
http://puppylinux.com/blog/?viewDetailed=00819

Any 218+ is there for anyone interested. I have moved on, now working on continuation of the 4.x series.
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]

OlddogNewtricks
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun 07 Jun 2009, 10:10
Location: U.K.

#39 Post by OlddogNewtricks »

BarryK wrote:
But 218+ could be built with the 2.6.21.1 kernel if required.
That would get my vote but others would say why not upgrade pup 3. Note, my 2.17 kernel shows 2.6.21.5

I hardly ever boot from a live cd thanks to frugal installing but tried 2.18 in a spare moment. It wouldn't let me unmount & eject the cd. I take it thats because I only have 256mb of ram.

User avatar
earlytv
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat 25 Aug 2007, 12:31
Location: Racine WI USA
Contact:

#40 Post by earlytv »

Frugal install 2.18, 2.14R V11 on system also.
2.18 Seamonkey very unstable on my system?
www.ebay.com worst at causing seamonkey to quit?
Any solutions?

I use Road Runner for internet service.
RR tops out at 20meg bits per sec on speed tests.
Is fast speed the cause of seamonkey quit?
Retired from GM, a Etech on engine electronics
Like to play with older computers and TVs

DENNIS

Dewbie

#41 Post by Dewbie »

Is this still available anywhere?
(preferably k2.6.18.1 version)
Links on page 1 are now dead.
Thanks.

User avatar
James C
Posts: 6618
Joined: Thu 26 Mar 2009, 05:12
Location: Kentucky

#42 Post by James C »

Dewbie wrote:Is this still available anywhere?
(preferably k2.6.18.1 version)
Links on page 1 are now dead.
Thanks.
If no new links magically appear I happen to have both versions that I could upload.About 2 am now though so it'll be after I get some sleep..... :lol:

Dewbie

#43 Post by Dewbie »

Thanks, James...no hurry. :)
I only need its analog modem drivers (specifically Intel 536) for Classic Pup 2.14x.
Edit: Intel 536 driver is only available with k2.6.18.8 version.
Last edited by Dewbie on Fri 02 Nov 2012, 00:36, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
James C
Posts: 6618
Joined: Thu 26 Mar 2009, 05:12
Location: Kentucky

#44 Post by James C »

Last edited by James C on Mon 20 May 2013, 11:47, edited 1 time in total.

Puppyt
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri 09 May 2008, 23:37
Location: Moorooka, Queensland
Contact:

#45 Post by Puppyt »

Thanks James C! This will be on my Christmas project list :)
Of course - thanks very much too, to BK for revitalizing these earlier Puppy environments.
Puppy Redux?
Search engines for Puppy
[url]http://puppylinux.us/psearch.html[/url]; [url=https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=015995643981050743583%3Aabvzbibgzxo&q=#gsc.tab=0]Google Custom Search[/url]; [url]http://wellminded.net63.net/[/url] others TBA...

darry1966

#46 Post by darry1966 »


darry1966

#47 Post by darry1966 »

Had so much fun with the 2.6.18.1 version I am sharing updates I used from Pup4 and other pups here:


http://sourceforge.net/projects/retropu ... rce=navbar

Post Reply