Whodo/Warren Has left puppy

[mcewanw]

I think all these commotion is a result of prolonged sleep deprivation and probably unhealthy eating habits...

Irritable, irrational, megalomania, split personality

I remember Ecomoney using his deep knowledge of psychiatry to diagnose the mental health faults he perceived in ttuuxxx

So what if ttuuxxx has an insane habit of laughing out loud at his many selfs?

But certainly, I can't help but feel that moogsydodong is onto something. It may not be caused by extreme sleep deprivation or eating too many kangaroos or modern fat trash food, but many of the symptoms described by moogsydodong are said to occur in the sleep deprived or those otherwise leading a life unbalanced or contrary to healthy needs.

Or as AJ puts it, too much ego

tipping the persons involved over the edge perhaps...

[sidders]

I agree with moogsydodong.
I suffer from sleep deprivation. I take wine for it, it helps.

Red wine that is. None iof this namby white stuff

[jduffy22335]

This kind of in-fighting will result in 4.2.1 being the last Puppy. We're slowing tearing ourselves apart. Why can't we just let bygones be bygones and get back to the task at hand: making Puppy better.

This kind of activity always seems to occur, when people believe they have vested interest in a project (not ownership). When we put time and effort (sometimes money) into a project, we perceive that certain tasking will de-rail the part that we spent all our time on getting things a certain way.

Each of us provides a useful part of development, we just do not always see the other side in any color of green.

Anyway thanks to ALL that contribute.

[seeker]

Eh?
Did you read the above posts you referred to?
It must be a small gang - Ttuuxxx, Ttuuxxx and Ttuuxxx Smile

You got me there! In the heat of the moment I neglected to paste in the url. It's corrected. And NO I don't mean everyone who posted in that thread. Use your own judgment.
Seriously people, when is this bs going to stop.

[Sit Heel Speak]

I'm sorry to see Warren (WhoDo) leave. Warren's 215CE with EZPup was grrrrreat!, a real convincer.

Nevertheless, I don't see Robert (ecomoney) in any serious bad light either. Granted, Robert might have reviewed the temper of his composition, and gentled it down a notch or three, reduced the skull-and-crossbones to a simple frowny-face, before he ran it up the flagpole.

Better yet, he might have modified his own EcoPup himself to give us examples of the collective improvements he desires. But of course, merely stating how it should change, and actually driving the twelve-horse chariot of producing a working Linux distro which features the desired changes, are two different smokes aren't they.

I would be delighted to see Warren return.

[PaulBx1]

Ach, humans!

[davec51]

I have nothing to say about the playground fights some Puppians seem to delight in. I'm only posting to say that WhoDo was kind and helpful to me on a number of occasions. I'll take this opportunity to thank him.

[sidders]

http://www.computerbob.com/wp/helping-v ... part-8.php

[James C]

Computer Bob does the same thing on several other Linux forums so that isn't a big surprise.

This ongoing mess should have been taken care of weeks ago before things got completely out of hand.

I personally hope WhoDo reconsiders but either way it is time to move on.....

[raffy]

Re: computerbob's blog - I gave this forum an "R" rating - you have to be a responsible adult to participate meaningfully here (and I guess that holds true for any truly democratic space).

[sidders]

I think that this should all stop now. Close this and move on. There are more important things to do. If you want (as Alien Jeff put it) a pissing competition, PM each other or pull each others hair in Facebook (or whatever they do there.

It was amusing to me at first but i'm becoming just a little disapointed.

[puppyluvr]

Hello,
Alright, look...Rob had a valid point, and he made it..
And made it, and made it, and made it...
At some point, (read carefully people), the intent went from bettering Puppy, to pissing Warren off...
And Warren, for his part, went from trying to defend his actions as "leader", to trying to piss Rob off...
(Sorry to both of you, but...)
Then it was off to the races..
Entertaining and sometimes funny as it was, (come on people, how many helped egg it on, including me??) it has to end..
Personally, I like `em both, and respect their work and effort towards Puppy, each in their own way...
But when anything starts to reflect badly on my beloved Puppy, it must end....GRRRRRRRRRRR

Neither man deserves to be Vilified......

Jay...

[ecomoney]

Warrens contribution to Puppy as a developer is undeniable, he had my full support during the development of 4.2, and I was happy that Puppy had an experienced successor to take over the reigns gradually throughout BarryK's retirement. From his past work he was the obvious man for the job. However when problems were pointed out, and dissent showed, Warren showed a different side.

I have long experience of using puppy "in the field" as well as a traditional academic background in software design and programming, I use the forum to pass on to developers the views of the "Linux Newbies" who I support, as well as my own ideas for making Puppy better achieve its stated goals. From everything I have ever read/learnt/been told/observed/studied about how software development works, feedback from its non-technical users to its technical developers is the key to making a successful computer program, or technical engineering project, of any kind.

Someone with a co-ordinator/manager/decision maker role for a successful software package would have the ability to take on board feedback about what doesnt work simply as information about where to change and improve the software. It is as much the responsibility of co-ordinators/developers to listen and react to users feedback as it is the users responsibility to provide it. BarryK has always been a great listener as much as he has been a provider of some pretty amazing software.

ComputerBob's interpretation of recent events will no doubt be shared by a great many other observers....this is not the way to encourage non-technical users to give their views/opinions/suggestions and requests for changes to make Puppy Linux even better than it already is. Considering the way WhoDo handled my own requests for changes/bugfixes to Puppy Linux, I must confess I personally breathed a sigh of relief when he announced he was relinquishing the co-ordinator role, although I didnt expect (or push for) this to happen. I dont believe any puppy user/developer should be alarmed by this.

I understand that Puppies Development model (which has obviously worked well) is to have a single person to make the casting vote on what gets included and worked on. I would suggest that whoever this is shares Barrys ability to take on board feedback cooly and calmly as information, as well as his burning desire to create something of use to as many people as possible.

Theres lots of things Im currently getting a great deal of satisfaction from being involved in testing/feedback-wise, including Sidders superb HanSamBen kids educational puppy linux derivitive, as well as a new hard disk installer (a major stumbling for new users).

P.S. With regard the "ego" charge thats been levelled at me, I hope people will bear in mind the difference between my posts here on the forum, and the online promotion of the not-for-profit company I have set up a a mechanism to do my "real-world" Puppy associated work.

[ttuuxxx]

"real-world" Puppy associated work.

This is the real world, it might be on the internet, but people do the hours at home on their pc's, sure we don't bother peddling it door to door, like you do, but to loosely use "Real world" like this is make believe, let me tell you it isn't! there's a hurt guy with a big heart sitting at home tonight called Warren, probably thinking what a waste of time his efforts were for the past years, when he looks back and reads post like this one and many of the other non-supported post that have been made here. Do You not understand what so ever what your repetitive/constant hounding on the same issues, time and time again have done? Your a sad man, with no empathy who just looks at the bottom line, reminds me of Ebenezer Scrooge. Who's your next victim?, better not be me, or I'll dart to.


Ps in the future report a bug/issue once, on one thread not the same issue on every thread you go to, that really pisses off the developers to read the same blame/shame crap, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. etc etc etc..............................
ttuuxxx

[rjbrewer]

There's nothing quite like rubbing salt in other peoples wounds; is
there ecomoney?

[ecomoney]

[quote="Ttuxxx" ]Your a sad man, with no empathy who just looks at the bottom line, reminds me of Ebenezer Scrooge.[/quote]

Notice the quotes around the "real world". Perhaps I should have used "non-forum".

To make a point Ive had to many times already at your enquiry Ttuuxxx, my companies "bottom line" reads exactly £0.00, and has done so for the last four years. Most of my work with Puppy is to use it to support charities, low income families, schools, nursaries and voluntary groups. I occasionally charge a small fee to those who can afford it to pay for my mobile phone, petrol for my "old-banger" of a car and web hosting/internet connection charges, expenses which I often use my own personal money to subsidise also. Its worth it because I get a whole heap of satisfaction from my "job". I will repeat my point of view wherever it seems relevant and on-topic to do so.

WhoDo has been of great help and assistance to many puppy users, and I personally hope he chooses to continue to do so. He's just not not suitable for a job in Distro Management....which from his resignation I take as his own opinion also. I wouldnt want to put anyone off contributing to puppy in whatever way they are best able.

I believe Ive been more sensitive to others feelings than either you or Warren have been to mine, nob/prick/scrooge/capitalist/terrorist/bully/scrooge/wanker that I am (not).

See youve made me start swearing now

Right...Im away for the evening, hiring a boat and going cruising on the river. Its good to take a break once in a while.

[WhoDo]

Considering the way WhoDo handled my own requests for changes/bugfixes to Puppy Linux, I must confess I personally breathed a sigh of relief when he announced he was relinquishing the co-ordinator role, although I didnt expect (or push for) this to happen. I dont believe any puppy user/developer should be alarmed by this.

...and so the spin begins. BTW, it's called SPIN because it travels in circles without any beginning or end, and that's exactly what we have here. A perpetual reinvention of the "truth" according to Walter Mitty. Orwellian isn't it? As my parting gift to the sensible element of this community, I leave the following facts:

1. I did NOT reject out of hand any bug reports/requests for changes made by ecomoney, or abuse him for making them. The facts speak for themselves. Fire up your Puppy 4.2 and you'll find a shortcut in your root directory to the root of the partition - one of a number of ecomoney suggestions incorporated at his request.

What I DID reject was his repeated and unreasonable demands that I immediately release an update version of 4.2 because it was "flawed". I said that we had patches and fixes posted already, and I didn't want to immediately follow the first release without Barry in charge with a second bug-fix release. That would have said that we, as a development team, were not yet capable of replacing him and given the rest of the Linux world a bad impression. That was my decision to make as coordinator and I made it, but ecomoney didn't like my choice because it didn't accord with his wishes. The campaign continued.

At one point it was also suggested by ecomoney that Barry himself immediately released updates. He didn't. There was at least 2 weeks of testing before each bugfix release was announced. Puppy 4.2.1 took over 4 weeks, but after the furore created by ecomoney over printing and document associations, I wanted the bug fix update to be bulletproof. Was that such a BAD thing?

2. When I (repeatedly) refused to accede to ecomoney's demands to release an early bug fix version, he threatened privately that he would "take whatever action is necessary for that to happen". He later variously claimed he meant either approaching Barry or the community with his concerns. Not true. The threat was quite explicit when read in the context of his continually repeated demands. He would push in whatever quarter for my decision as coordinator to be overturned, and that would have required removing me from that role.

I refused to be threatened and so I posted his threat on the forum. For that I was vilified as someone who posts private communications for his own ends, instead of a concerned member of the community who felt the community needed to know what pressure was being applied privately as well as publicly to its project coordinator.

3. ecomoney has continually painted himself as the aggrieved party in a dispute that actually goes back over 2 years. It started when I was asked to follow 2.15CE with a 3.xx series CE version. I said I didn't have time but would happily support anyone who wanted to give it a shot. ecomoney put his hand up and I supported him in his attempt. What followed was standard fare for ecomoney ... nothing but hot air. He tried to organise committees, boards, panels and any other device so that he could direct traffic instead of doing the driving.

First was his decision to drop the 3.xxCE in favour of yet another 2.xx series CE - we'd already had 2.03CE (Hacao), 2.15CE (WhoDo et al), 2.14R (Dougal and pakt) and 2.16CE (tronkel). His excuse was that he felt that 3.xx series was problematic. Yeah, right. It's based on Slackware compatibility and solid as a rock. That was just an excuse. Realising that wouldn't hold water he disappeared ... for 2 years ... without any explanation.

ecomoney says that he supported the 4.2 development program coordinated by me. That is an outright fabrication. The first communication from him was AFTER 4.2 was released and he'd rushed out to install it on a bunch of machines. He came back to the forum complaining bitterly that it was a flawed release and it was hurting his "clients". What hurt his clients was his own ill-considered decision to install a point0 release without testing it first! As usual with ecomoney, it's always someone else's fault. He blamed me for releasing a version of Puppy with an untested CUPS release. Also not true. It had been tested through multiple alpha, beta and RC releases. It underwent MORE testing than any version since 2.15CE! And still the bugs got through. As Barry himself told me "There are always bugs. Don't worry about it!" Well I did, and our terrific team of developers produced fixes within days of the release. Not good enough, says ecomoney!

4. Then we come to the great ecomoney contribution ... demanding a separate forum section for bugs instead of the tried and tested bugs and fixes thread that accompanies each release. He nagged until he got his way, and then proceeded to flood the new forum section with ill-considered reports of almost every conceivable type, only some of which could even be loosely characterised as "bugs" by any reasonable standard. He even complained about the standard JWM feature of scrolling between desktops with the mouse wheel. I was given moderator rights over THAT SECTION ONLY as the coordinator, so I could sort through the chaff and make sure the developers only had to read genuine bug reports and not nonsense. Was that so BAD?

Did it stop? Nope. Next thing he's reporting a user complaint that "the monitor appears broken" because the theme and icons are in black and white ... on an ALPHA version of upup! Why is he showing alpha's to newbies? I think it's so he can be perceived as being "involved" in the development process. If they like what they see, he's a great man for being a part of it; if they don't like it, it's the developer's fault for getting it wrong and he promises to complain on their behalf!

5. Then we have ecomoney's perpetually rubber versions of the "truth" - first he has "no programming skills" and then he's had "a traditional academic background in software design and programming". It's like watching a chameleon change colour to suit the surroundings. Fascinating but not an accurate representation of the creature in any circumstances. He is taken to task for not finishing Phoenix - the 3.xx/2.xx CE he was supposed to be managing - and he first claims it was because he was unemployed, and then more recently that the project is still alive but he doesn't want to "rush it out". Spin, spin, SPIN!

6. As for ego's, I see that I too have now been branded as egotistical and self-serving in this dispute. That really causes me great pain, because I know that it is so untrue. I went to extraordinary lengths as coordinator to put aside my own ego and ideas and instead follow what I believed was the best course for Puppy, its developers and the community. ecomoney says BarryK listens ... and he does ... where I didn't. But Barry almost never comes back to try and justify his decisions. No-one expects him to. I tried to do that, by explaining in detail the reasons behind each and every choice. I tried to answer as many reports and requests as I could personally. For that I have been accused of continually springing to my own defense as an ego-related failing! I assumed that the community would see that attempt at transparency as a good thing. I'm glad I'm not a betting man or I'd be pretty broke right about now!

I didn't have to explain my choices but, being ever mindful that I'm not Barry, I felt I should be as transparent and open about things as possible in the best interests of all concerned. Was that such a BAD choice to make?

And now I have made another choice ... not for me alone but also for this community. I let the stress produced by ecomoney's tactics and ceaseless campaigning get under my skin. I lost my temper and fired back in a blatantly personal attack. I regret that because it gave him yet another opening to play the wounded victim and valiant protector of the hapless newbie user. I'm human and this time I let that show in a very human way. It was an undeniable sign that for me Puppy was no longer fun.

Was reacting that way such a BAD thing? After all, it was a reaction designed to relieve the stress. Yes, I certainly think so, even though Barry also admits to losing his temper here on occasion. For this I was then characterised as an abusive bully! Despite that the reason for my leaving was purely to avoid further stress in a life already too full of that weighty baggage. I could cry publicly about my financial situation, pressures at work that induces, even lack of sleep (as has been suggested) ... but in all of those excuses there are others here worse off than me. It would be too self-serving to make exuses, so I won't. It is what it is, nothing more.

It was time to leave, and so I have. Please consider this restatement of simple facts as my parting gift to those of you who will have to continue to suffer this man's SPIN until he is again found out and leaves of his own accord. He will, when this community and its product no longer suit his purposes. I wish you all, and Puppy, the very best for the future from the bottom of my heart. Be ever vigilant and reject SPIN in favour of empirical truth at every turn. Test every claim in the furnace of facts. Hang on to your integrity and don't let the SPIN take you in!

[metre9dmt]

When I read that Whodo left Puppy Linux, I was sad that Puppy Linux just lost one of its good programmers and believer. But following this thread and the unfolding story, the situation is becoming a slugfest. We should understand this is part of the growth process and/or maturity of Puppy Linux. We should always remember that this is a volunteer effort and that respect for one another should be a paramount belief to be shared by Puppy Linux users.

I just hope that the situation improves for the better.

[markofkane]

Whodo, just don't let your talent go to waste.(please) Hope to see you working on another project somewhere.

[Lobster]

Warren thanks for all your influential and hard won efforts.
I sincerely hope you will return or remain in some capacity (remember after Puppy Viz 2.15 you said 'never again') and then somehow produced Deep Thought. . . .

Ttuuxxx needs someone to control and moderate his efforts and has kindly praised your skills in this regard
We need to keep Ttuuxxx on a leash otherwise he will completely gnaw away Zigberts leg . . .
Only DharmaDorje (aka WhoDo) can do this:
http://tmxxine.com/ww/DharmaDorje

What is the situation with the website? Are you still hosting
or has Prithish taken it over completely?

Please return to being a Puppy user whilst Barry updates the 2.x and 4.x series and we all look forward to 5.x

Wuf Wuf