Ok first off i understand All of us where noobs at once and this is a friendly welcoming forum for the help and spread of puppy linux. But i seem to think for the future more then the present on many occasions.
But Seriously we have a little over 900 pple With only 0-10 posts and out of that 900+ 343 pple have no posts. The beginners page has 1237 topics And grows larger per day.
This is Not a complaint yet a worry for the future. Yes i know we want more users but think of what this means for the forum. more new users more noobs to linux means more and more topics and posts. So far we only have a select group of Experts and i doubt any of them wanna sign in to see (dramatization) 100 new pages in the beginners section.
(If you wanna save time no need to read on the rest is just me rambling)
This odd subject that many may disagree with or see as useless came to me while thinking about spreading the word of puppy to pple. Cursed with a overactive imagination i was dreaming about renting a large building like the one a flea market down here uses and having a puppy propaganda event. Putting up a sign Around town Promoting puppy and the date of the event to attract pple to the subject of using puppy. I mean truthfully If you put never have to throw away a computer or waste money to keep up with demanding times just to check your damn email and type a essay pple would flock to the idea. At this event puppy CDs would be sold for 5-10$ and the money donated to the almighty barry to help with development and costs for puppy. Old computers for sale a large projector with puppy on it for display so pple can tinker while others watch. (i told you over active imaginations are a curse)
Anywho but then it hit me. If it does pull in pple and draws a large crowd what would that mean for the community? If this event goes on for a few days and brings in a large amount of pple the next day every one of them is going to log into the forum for help @.@ and wed have 100s of noobs filling the boards with "Plz help me" topics. obviously our 20-30 person (guestimating) army of experts wouldn't be able to handle this flood of pple.
Sorry For the Unneeded rambling session but i felt it was funny to me. XD
Alas what could be done to prevent noob floods? more help files? A Book of some sort to come with puppy? A read this befor posting Anything at all Website that leads to help files wikis and more?
Argue or agree or disagree just to disagree This topic may be more useful then intended. I mean lets truly think about it Look at windows do you ever EVER see bill gates forum jumping helping pple? Puppy is a Small Gem that many do not see and if we don't take care of it and think ahead for many future happenings well itll become a dull rock. I think puppy has tremendous Amazing potential for many reasons and wanna help in anyway i can to make puppy reach my expectations for its adulthood life.
Wow can i talk @.@
HTML Beginners guide as default homepages?
-
Alucard_the_dex
- Posts: 317
- Joined: Wed 05 Oct 2005, 01:53
HTML Beginners guide as default homepages?
Last edited by Alucard_the_dex on Wed 07 Dec 2005, 23:37, edited 1 time in total.
~Puppy Linux~ Where mans best friend becomes PCs best friend
New members are not a risk but an oportunity. Some of the 'experts' in the forum were noobs at some point and are still noobs in other topics.
Even the person that could be considered the least noob in the forum, Barry, still asks questions that for other new users to the forum are basic questions.
I think that the more people comes, the richer the forum.
Regarding having a 'book' or 'help' or 'read this first', Except for a printed book, all the rest already exist and are readily available. One of the characteristics of a Noob is that you don't know where to start. So pointing them to the right resource may be all it's needed.
The concepts of Noob and expert are blury in a forum. I prefer 'New member' instead of Novice. All new members come with a knowledge baggage that they may not even realize they have. Sometimes you know things and think that its so easy that maybe everybody else already knows that. Some people may think they are Novice because they haven't submited patches to the kernel but they have a lot of experience in web development. Some others may think they are Novice because they just 'use' the computer but they may bring a lot of little known tricks to the table.
I hope my rabmling was as clear as yours
Even the person that could be considered the least noob in the forum, Barry, still asks questions that for other new users to the forum are basic questions.
I think that the more people comes, the richer the forum.
Regarding having a 'book' or 'help' or 'read this first', Except for a printed book, all the rest already exist and are readily available. One of the characteristics of a Noob is that you don't know where to start. So pointing them to the right resource may be all it's needed.
The concepts of Noob and expert are blury in a forum. I prefer 'New member' instead of Novice. All new members come with a knowledge baggage that they may not even realize they have. Sometimes you know things and think that its so easy that maybe everybody else already knows that. Some people may think they are Novice because they haven't submited patches to the kernel but they have a lot of experience in web development. Some others may think they are Novice because they just 'use' the computer but they may bring a lot of little known tricks to the table.
I hope my rabmling was as clear as yours
That reminds me, I thought it was pretty common knowledge not to put metal in the microwave. But then I heard about a new employee do just that in the break room. He couldn't figure out why his aluminum wrapper caught on fire until someone told him about this.Sometimes you know things and think that its so easy that maybe everybody else already knows that.
Well, that was off topic...
As someone who operates a few message boards, this is actually pretty normal. Many people register on a board and don't post anything. Some of them just lurk and read posts, but never post themselves, and others register, forget about it, and never come back.But Seriously we have a little over 900 pple With only 0-10 posts and out of that 900+ 343 pple have no posts.
A lot of the people sign up & ask a Q or two, or find an answer maybe without posting. It would be useful to know if they are continuing to use Puppy or not. That would tell whether the forum is the right way to dispense 1st time user info.
I think there are two discrete types here- one is the customizers, pretty much at home with Linux, but very OS-oriented. The others are looking at Puppy as an alternative to WinOSs, but as a foundation for work-oriented apps, and they are mostly new to Linux. (I'd be in the second group, but interested in joining the first.)
If you look at the post lists by category, they seem a bit dismaying to me- common Qs are repeated, and overall the lists feel like a long set of bug reports; and they really aren't and they make Puppy look pretty funky and it really isn't.
Some of this is forum dynamics- common to any growing forum. But I wish there was less of the almost rude "HEY- this doesn't work!' posting as new threads, cause it gives a wrong impression. (as example: Fix the Mess that is the Puppy Web Presence) I don't know how some of our group gurus stay so amiable herding this bunch of cats...
ps on one forum I know, there's only about 30 real posters, and they have over 7,000 'silent' members... kinda eerie.
pps I just found out from a post here that putting CDs in the microwave 'give them that crinkly look'
I think there are two discrete types here- one is the customizers, pretty much at home with Linux, but very OS-oriented. The others are looking at Puppy as an alternative to WinOSs, but as a foundation for work-oriented apps, and they are mostly new to Linux. (I'd be in the second group, but interested in joining the first.)
If you look at the post lists by category, they seem a bit dismaying to me- common Qs are repeated, and overall the lists feel like a long set of bug reports; and they really aren't and they make Puppy look pretty funky and it really isn't.
Some of this is forum dynamics- common to any growing forum. But I wish there was less of the almost rude "HEY- this doesn't work!' posting as new threads, cause it gives a wrong impression. (as example: Fix the Mess that is the Puppy Web Presence) I don't know how some of our group gurus stay so amiable herding this bunch of cats...
ps on one forum I know, there's only about 30 real posters, and they have over 7,000 'silent' members... kinda eerie.
pps I just found out from a post here that putting CDs in the microwave 'give them that crinkly look'
Let me take this opportunity to again shamelessly plug Joey's new Linux graphics forum:
http://caglewebcreations.com/linuxartsforums/index.php
he hasn't bribed me (yet) to do this...
this can be a great spot for learning the apps that make the graphics that spiff up the websites that earn the living, etc.
http://caglewebcreations.com/linuxartsforums/index.php
he hasn't bribed me (yet) to do this...
this can be a great spot for learning the apps that make the graphics that spiff up the websites that earn the living, etc.
-
Alucard_the_dex
- Posts: 317
- Joined: Wed 05 Oct 2005, 01:53
Im so glad pple posted lolAnywho
So pointing them to the right resource may be all it's needed.
Hence My Idea to make a read this first website that points to wikis forum topics and help files And even the newly made documentation site.
Indeed but thats what im pointing out. How many XP users dont change their settings their background or theme at that? With that in mind Yes they can input tips and tricks but Mostly to consider them as "what the user wants" resources. if we listen to what pple Want that are switching over and try to attempt the request we can learn and improve puppy a great deal. Doing this tho has to be controled there always has to be a limit to everything. Another note ORGANIZATION puppy seems to be amazingly unorganized not to insult but only a observation. I can understand how much you guys can do with what you got resource and time wise. But everyone seems to be off doing their own thing @.@Some others may think they are Novice because they just 'use' the computer
Understood But it still seems unorganized to me to have that many pple lurking with accounts when there is the guest acount with the capability of making a nick without registering.As someone who operates a few message boards, this is actually pretty normal.
Indeed true but how can we tell? Maybe a Golbal PM informing everyone about account deactivations if a log in does not occur within this amount of time?It would be useful to know if they are continuing to use Puppy or not.
I suggest a code of conduct type agreement befor allowing a person to register. Lobsters sticky for the read this first is a great idea but I doubt manya Noob read it (i kinda didntIf you look at the post lists by category, they seem a bit dismaying to me- common Qs are repeated, and overall the lists feel like a long set of bug reports; and they really aren't and they make Puppy look pretty funky and it really isn't.
) Which is another topic, How to make pple read things first. Any ideas? i got nothing Except my first idea a read this first website befor entering the forum or anything at that.~Puppy Linux~ Where mans best friend becomes PCs best friend
Thanks for the plug. I do want to mention that it's not just graphics, but all arts which involve digital media, wether it be visual, or audio. Music, film making, and animation are considered arts too. So it's also for all that.Let me take this opportunity to again shamelessly plug Joey's new Linux graphics forum:
http://caglewebcreations.com/linuxartsforums/index.php
he hasn't bribed me (yet) to do this...
this can be a great spot for learning the apps that make the graphics that spiff up the websites that earn the living, etc.
Staying amiable is easy, just concentrate on the problem and forget about the manner in which it was asked.
A lot of the time people are unintentionally abrupt, not really rude, as they may be frustrated at not being able to get something to work, no matter what they try.
Imagine how health and emergency workers feel when they are trying to save the life of someone who is in great pain and is abusing them because of the pain.
What would you do, ignore them until they shut up, which could be as a result of their death, or get on with the job while trying to understand that it is their circumstance that is causing them to behave the way they are.
In relation to this forum the above still does not excuse outright rudeness and the only response to that kind of behaviour is to point out that any help supplied through this forum is by unpaid people who offer assistance because they wish to help people with lesser knowledge on the subject and being rude is not the way to gain sympathy for your problem.
For me it is an ego thing, I get a great lift out of knowing I have helped someone as I have always maintained that there is nothing that one person knows that everyone else cannot learn.
Mind you I don't get many lifts.
I also think that as well as providing help we should be trying to stimulate people's minds even if only in a small way as life is easier if you have some understanding of what you are working with.
As I said microwaved CDs make great clock faces.
A lot of the time people are unintentionally abrupt, not really rude, as they may be frustrated at not being able to get something to work, no matter what they try.
Imagine how health and emergency workers feel when they are trying to save the life of someone who is in great pain and is abusing them because of the pain.
What would you do, ignore them until they shut up, which could be as a result of their death, or get on with the job while trying to understand that it is their circumstance that is causing them to behave the way they are.
In relation to this forum the above still does not excuse outright rudeness and the only response to that kind of behaviour is to point out that any help supplied through this forum is by unpaid people who offer assistance because they wish to help people with lesser knowledge on the subject and being rude is not the way to gain sympathy for your problem.
For me it is an ego thing, I get a great lift out of knowing I have helped someone as I have always maintained that there is nothing that one person knows that everyone else cannot learn.
Mind you I don't get many lifts.
I also think that as well as providing help we should be trying to stimulate people's minds even if only in a small way as life is easier if you have some understanding of what you are working with.
As I said microwaved CDs make great clock faces.
-
Pizzasgood
- Posts: 6183
- Joined: Wed 04 May 2005, 20:28
- Location: Knoxville, TN, USA
At the moment, there are 35 members at my forum. One (besides me) has posted. Another (my host) PMed me once. There were maybe two or three guest posts. The strange thing is, most of those other members seem to be Vietnamese. According to my hittracker, I get a very large majority of hits that are seemingly reffered from a Vietnamese site. I can't tell what it says, but I can't find a link to my site there. It's kind of scary. I don't think that Vietnamese site is exactly child friendly (or parent friendly, for that matterAs someone who operates a few message boards, this is actually pretty normal. Many people register on a board and don't post anything. Some of them just lurk and read posts, but never post themselves, and others register, forget about it, and never come back.
).I can't think of anything on my site that would draw in hosts of Vietnamese people, either. Maybe they enjoy spoofs of rap songs about Cheese-cake and Physics? Or maybe it's the flaming pizza in the corner. I don't know. Anyways, the Vietnamese conspiracy has nothing to do with Puppy. I guess I should stop procrastinating and go type my essay....
[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
[img]http://www.browserloadofcoolness.com/sig.png[/img]
[img]http://www.browserloadofcoolness.com/sig.png[/img]
-
saintlangton
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Sat 28 May 2005, 21:49
I like what PClinuxOS has done in version .92 - there's an icon on the desktop labeled 'New User Guide' and it opens a link to a new user guide wiki - see http://www.pclinuxonline.com/wiki/HomePage for where it links to.Alucard_the_dex wrote:
Anywho
So pointing them to the right resource may be all it's needed.
Hence My Idea to make a read this first website that points to wikis forum topics and help files And even the newly made documentation site.
In puppy possibly best to link to a local page that then links to the wiki as puppy doesn't automatically connect on boot and is sometimes non-trivial (dial-up, wireless, win modems etc)
Chris
nate- no problem; I actually agree with you; but also see the 'herding cats' thing, and the impression given to newcomers. You post was just a very clear example on any number of posts lately.nate wrote:aahaa,
Sorry about that. (Puppy Web Prescence). I didn;t mean it that way. It wasnt a whine. Just a suggestion.
Growing pains!Nobody is getting paid to provide help, and everybody wants to do their thing their way. I was just remarking on the overall impression a horde of 'Its busted' threads makes on 1st look folks. The people who give their time to answer all the config Qs have my total respect (esp about the 3rd time they give it). Hopefully the wiki & the doc proj will cover the setup Qs and customizing Qs pretty soon.
There are different dynamics to blogs, forums, wikis, etc. People seem to prefer the interaction of the forum to working the wiki. I don't feel qualified to write in the wiki (yet) so I'm here. I see a structural problem here that would play out differently in a wiki... that important answers are buried on page 3 of some involved thread- and may not even be related to the topic heading.
But the generic forum 'dilemma' is that for every 10 who sign up, 1 posts. For every poster, there's 9 who we don't know what's up with them. We may be losing a heck of a lot of potential users, just because the threads are so discombobulated. I sure hope not; Puppy is so much fun when you just run with it...
-
Alucard_the_dex
- Posts: 317
- Joined: Wed 05 Oct 2005, 01:53
terminological inexactitude strikes again.
Al- call it walking the dog? instead of herding cats? check out this thread...
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?p=27119#27119
maybe we need a buddy system?
Al- call it walking the dog? instead of herding cats? check out this thread...
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?p=27119#27119
maybe we need a buddy system?
-
Alucard_the_dex
- Posts: 317
- Joined: Wed 05 Oct 2005, 01:53
I read that once then went back and tried reading that post again @.@ still dunno what hes going on about except he needs a cheep computer XD
Anywho I think i may of found a solution to Putting out there in front of noobs faces a Read this first typa thing. A Html File that automatically starts as a homepage with all 4 web browsers. In it will be links And a copy of lobsters sticky beginner post. To Grab attention a nice saying or pic at the top of the Screen Like Something around the lines of Lets get started! or Welcome to puppy! Lets begin! Something like that......yeah Anywho! It might even be helpful in many other ways. We Could Include a FAQs and maybe a Walk thru with Links Or something. Then we can have it packaged with puppy. I mean Doesn't most of the browsers come with puppy Bookmarks and puppy as the homepage already? I say put the home page to work before they come to the websites.
Sound good? If so id definitely love to help on it or be the leader of the project.........I its about damn time i should add in my 2 cents in to help puppy out XD
Anywho I think i may of found a solution to Putting out there in front of noobs faces a Read this first typa thing. A Html File that automatically starts as a homepage with all 4 web browsers. In it will be links And a copy of lobsters sticky beginner post. To Grab attention a nice saying or pic at the top of the Screen Like Something around the lines of Lets get started! or Welcome to puppy! Lets begin! Something like that......yeah Anywho! It might even be helpful in many other ways. We Could Include a FAQs and maybe a Walk thru with Links Or something. Then we can have it packaged with puppy. I mean Doesn't most of the browsers come with puppy Bookmarks and puppy as the homepage already? I say put the home page to work before they come to the websites.
Sound good? If so id definitely love to help on it or be the leader of the project.........I its about damn time i should add in my 2 cents in to help puppy out XD
~Puppy Linux~ Where mans best friend becomes PCs best friend