Has anyone dual booted Puppy + Ubuntu with GRUB2?

Under development: PCMCIA, wireless, etc.
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davesurrey
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#16 Post by davesurrey »

Hi Mike,
Just seen your post so sorry I didn't get to respond before.

Anyway glad you got it working.

These "subtle" changes like the disk numbering not changing but the partition numbering changing, plus "set root" rather than "root" and "linux"rather than "kernel" are not at all difficult to do but why oh why did the developers make it just that little bit more troublesome.

Anyway I hope grub2 will eventually deliver all that it promises.

Cheers
Dave

Jim1911
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#17 Post by Jim1911 »

Hi Dave,

Thank you for sharing your experience with Grub2. Looking back over mine, the puppy code seems the same, although I put all my pups in one file in the same location that you used instead of separate files. Looking at the grub.cfg after running sudo update-grub showed my pup code, but grub kept giving errors.

Maybe they've made some changes from the alpha's that I was trying to use. Your success encourages me to try again. I do think that Grub2 is the wave of the future, especially with puppy which stays ahead of the major distributions in many ways.

Thanks,
Jim

davesurrey
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#18 Post by davesurrey »

Jim1911.

Jim, remember that I am a grub2 "expert" of only a few hours :-) but if you want to give your code that's in your /etc/grub.d/41_puppy file (or whatever it's called) and the relevant bit of grub.cfg I'll be happy to compare with mine. Might be worth a try?

My grub2 came with the final version of Ubuntu 9.10 released Thursday. Where did yours come from?

Also not too sure I understand this?
although I put all my pups in one file in the same location that you used instead of separate files
My Puppys are all in the same partition but each one in a separate directory including the pup_save files. You might want to try that configuration if all else fails.

Cheers
Dave

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mikeb
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#19 Post by mikeb »

So what exactly does grub 2 deliver to justify the changes with respect to puppy?

mike

Jim1911
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#20 Post by Jim1911 »

davesurrey wrote:Jim1911.
My grub2 came with the final version of Ubuntu 9.10 released Thursday. Where did yours come from?
Also not too sure I understand this?
although I put all my pups in one file in the same location that you used instead of separate files
My Puppys are all in the same partition but each one in a separate directory including the pup_save files.
I was using one of the alpha versions of Ubuntu 9.10 back in August.

The code (sample below) I used in the 40_puppy file is very similar to yours except I included about 6 pups each in their own psubdir and some were on different partitions. I used the same directory location and commands that you used to make the file executable and update the grub. However, kept getting errors. Hopefully the final release of Grub2 has improved. For now, I am sticking with ubuntu 9.04 for awhile longer. Also boot Kubuntu 9.10 and Windows Vista using Grub 0.97. Of course Grub2 recognized those fine.

Code: Select all

menuentry “Woof upup 476 (on /dev/sda2)

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mikeb
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#21 Post by mikeb »

@Mike Just future compatibility with other distributions. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2 for additional information.
ah ok....I use grub4dos whose latest version has such support it seems...just wanted to get picture of the changes thanks

regards

mike

davesurrey
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#22 Post by davesurrey »

Jim1911,

My /etc/grub.d/41_puppy file is

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
exec tail -n +3 $0
# This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries.  Simply type the
# menu entries you want to add after this comment.  Be careful not to change
# the 'exec tail' line above.
menuentry "Puppy 431 frugal on sdb5" {
set root=(hd1,5)
linux   /puppy431/vmlinuz  root=/dev/ram0 psubdir=puppy431
initrd  /puppy431/initrd.gz
}
EOF
Note the #! bin/sh and the exec tail lines at the start. Does yours have this?

Dave

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DaveS
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#23 Post by DaveS »

mikeb wrote:So what exactly does grub 2 deliver to justify the changes with respect to puppy?

mike
Mike, I think I am right in saying one needs Grub 2 for ext4 support, which is absent in Grub 1
Spup Frugal HD and USB
Root forever!

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mikeb
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#24 Post by mikeb »

Mike, I think I am right in saying one needs Grub 2 for ext4 support, which is absent in Grub 1
sounds right plus 256 indode support...grub4dos covers these but keeping the same menu.lst format....perhaps it will change in time to match grub2 who knows

mike

Jim1911
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#25 Post by Jim1911 »

@DaveS Mike, I think I am right in saying one needs Grub 2 for ext4 support, which is absent in Grub 1

I am using Grub 1 and it supports a number of ext4 partitions without any problems.

Jim

davesurrey
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#26 Post by davesurrey »

DaveS wrote
Mike, I think I am right in saying one needs Grub 2 for ext4 support, which is absent in Grub 1
Jim1911 wrote
I am using Grub 1 and it supports a number of ext4 partitions without any problems.
AIUI both are sort of correct. As mikeb has said before what is now becoming know as Grub-1 or Grub legacy hasn't been officially supported for a while. Until recently grub (versions 0.9X) didn't support ext4 (and most puppies use this version of grub.) But there have been (unofficial?) patches to grub to allow use of ext4. I understand Puppy 431 uses this.

I have been more than happy using Grub Legacy, until this week, for multi-booting but if I have to jump to another system I think it's a good time to do it now using Ubuntu 9.10

Apart from official support for ext4, and of course the fact that it's being actively developed, it does seem to be better at detecting other distros and for those who want it (not me) it will allow nice and pretty boot-splash screens.

But just as with Grub legacy, it didn't recognise any puppy nor TinyCore Linux.

I'd have a look at Grub4dos but I'm unsure of one thing. Can I use it on a pc that doesn't have any trace of MS ie no Dos or Windows installed at all? mikeb perhaps you could kindly confirm? But there again I might only be holding off grub-2 for a while as perhaps grub4dos will be "embracing" the grub2 way soon?

Cheers
Dave

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mikeb
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#27 Post by mikeb »

I'd have a look at Grub4dos but I'm unsure of one thing. Can I use it on a pc that doesn't have any trace of MS ie no Dos or Windows installed at all? mikeb perhaps you could kindly confirm? But there again I might only be holding off grub-2 for a while as perhaps grub4dos will be "embracing" the grub2 way soon?


in the grub4dos package there is bootlace.com

bootlace.com /dev/sda (it can be run from dos too!)

will write to the mbr so that grldr is booted so basically running just like normal grub (but on more file system types)..this is how I use it now and use chainloader for windows (bootsector is unaffected or chainload ntldr directly)

so ...bootlace, grldr to (any) partition root, make yer menu.lst...done

mike

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shinobar
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grub4dos and ext4

#28 Post by shinobar »

mikeb wrote:so ...bootlace, grldr to (any) partition root, make yer menu.lst...done
my experience, grldr to an ext4 partition fails.
if the grldr on any other (ntfs/vfat/ext2/etx3) partiton, it can boot up Linux or Windows from any partion including ext4.
Last edited by shinobar on Sun 01 Nov 2009, 13:17, edited 1 time in total.

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mikeb
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#29 Post by mikeb »

my experience, grldr to an ext4 partition fails.
if the grldr on any other (ntfs/vfat/etx3/ext3) partiton, it can boot up Linux or Windows from any partion including ext4.
thanks for the tip...I expect that will get incorporated soon. It's main target is multiboot with windows arrangements so to be expected.

mike

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shinobar
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grub4dos-0.4.4.v1.4

#30 Post by shinobar »

get and try grub4dos-0.4.4.v1.3.pet or grub4dos-0.4.4.v1.4.pet(2Nov updated) from here.
install on Puppy 4.3x.

it supports ntfs/vfat/ext2/ext3 and even ext4.
if you like to dual boot Puppy + Ubuntu 9.10, follow the next step.
  1. install ubuntu (can be ext4 file system).
  2. boot up Puppy 4.3x from live CD.
  3. install grub4dos-0.4.4.v1.3.pet.
  4. create a folder at the top layer of any partition, say '/mnt/sda1/puppy'.
  5. copy all contents of the live CD to the new folder.
  6. Menu > System > Grub4DosConfig
  7. Replay 'OK' to all dialog.
  8. Eject CD and reboot computor.
multiboot with Windows (9x/2000/XP/Vista/2008/7) also quite easy.

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mikeb
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#31 Post by mikeb »

Looks neat shinobar...perhaps post this in the 'additional software' section too

regards

mike

mawebb88
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GRUB2 and pfic=ram kernel panick

#32 Post by mawebb88 »

Hi

I have both 412 and 431 booting fine with Ubuntu 9.10/GRUB2. But then I tried adding pfix=ram:

Code: Select all

#
menuentry "Puppy-412 in RAM" {
    set root=(hd1,1)
    linux /puppy412/vmlinuz psubdir=puppy412 pfix=ram
    initrd /puppy412/initrd.gz
}
#
and reboot selecting this item I get kernel panic!

Anyone seen similar problems or any idea of a work around?

Rgds Mike

Fishback
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#33 Post by Fishback »

I'll add my experience with Karmic and Grub 2. Much of this has been stated previously in this thread, but perhaps one more voice will help someone else.

On my old laptop, I dual-boot Ubuntu and Puppy. (Why? Even though I prefer Puppy, it's problematic on this old hardware, and also because establishing and maintaining a wireless connection with Puppy is VERY problematic.) I recently installed Ubuntu Karmic 9.10 from scratch, which included Grub 2. It was supposed to pull in the settings from Grub 1 - - which it did, except for my Puppy frugal installation. So, I had to do a fair amount of research, along with lots of trial and error to get Grub 2 to properly list and start my frugal Puppy. Info from this thread and other places helped me get my puppy back.

Here's the skinny on updating & modifying Grub 2 via Karmic:
1. It does not use the configuration file 'menu.lst' from Grub 1. Instead, it stores the menu items and configuration info in grub.cfg, in the '/boot/grub' folder.
2. The grub.cfg file is not meant to be manually modified. You update it via the terminal by executing the following command - 'sudo update-grub'. You can, of course, update grub.cfg manually, but your manual entries will be erased at the next Ubuntu update.
3. To update grub.cfg, you add your script(s) to the file '/etc/grub.d/40_custom'. After saving the file, you then execute 'sudo update-grub', which modifies grub.cfg by looking for additional major operating systems on your computer, and by adding the information you entered into the file '40_custom'.

After installing Karmic, it was clear that to get my puppy install back I had to add the menu entry info from my old menu.lst file (which the Grub 2 install left intact) into the file '40_custom'. Unfortunately, the syntax has changed in Grub 2, along with how and where you make changes to the menu selections. Also, partition numbering now starts at 1 instead of 0. Here's a comparison of my the menu data for grub 1 and grub 2.

Grub 1
title Puppy Linux 4.30 (retro)- Frugal Install
rootnoverify (hd0,4)
kernel /puppy430/vmlinuz pmedia=idehd psubdir=puppy430 nosmp pfix=fsck
initrd /puppy430/initrd.gz
Grub 2
menuentry "Puppy Linux 4.30 (retro)- Frugal Install" {
set root=(hd0,5)
linux /puppy430/vmlinuz pmedia=idehd psubdir=puppy430 nosmp pfix=fsck
initrd /puppy430/initrd.gz
}
Note the changes:
1. 'title' has become 'menuentry'
2. title text needs to be in quotation marks
3. 'rootnoverify' has become 'set root='
4. partition numbering now starts at 1 instead of 0
5. 'kernel' has become 'linux'
6. You now need to have brackets setting off all of the menu entry settings except the menuentry heading.

SO, the Grub 2 developers changed pretty much everything about grub, much of it seemingly for no reason other than to be different. This is what happens when you let software developers loose with no supervision. Because they understand the code so well, I've seen time and time again that software developers make programs overly and unnecessarily complex for the other people who will use it.

The code may be extremely functional - even brilliant. But folks, we're talking about a bootloader here and as it stands now it's a POS. How in the world can you expect the average person to understand how to modify their boot menu? And what appears in this thread only scratches the surface - there are many pages of Grub 2 'user information' on the web. Someone new to bootloaders will likely quickly give up and return to the warm folds of Microsoft.

If you have patience and a strong cup of coffee at the ready, here's Ubuntu's community documentation for Grub 2. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2

One final note: Grub 2 takes twice as much time to load, compared to Grub 1. After turning my laptop on, there are several seconds of non-activity before Grub 2 decides to load. The first couple of times I booted I thought it had hung. That's progress fer ya.

Likely, I'll revert to Grub 1 in the next few days. And I really, really hope that Puppy doesn't come armed with Grub 2 until it's ready for prime time, and the masses.
Last edited by Fishback on Mon 16 Nov 2009, 04:20, edited 1 time in total.

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alienjeff
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#34 Post by alienjeff »

To paraphrase an American PSA (public service announcement): friends don't let friends install Ubuntu.

Reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsSIpDK16c4
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Fishback
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#35 Post by Fishback »

Ubuntu is fine. It's the choice of the Ubuntu community to distribute Grub 2 with their latest release that makes no sense.

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