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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Has anyone dual booted Puppy + Ubuntu with GRUB2?
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8344

PostPosted: Mon 02 Nov 2009, 09:27    Post_subject:  

Looks neat shinobar...perhaps post this in the 'additional software' section too

regards

mike
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mawebb88

Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 245
Location: France nr Lyon

PostPosted: Tue 03 Nov 2009, 16:46    Post_subject: GRUB2 and pfic=ram kernel panick  

Hi

I have both 412 and 431 booting fine with Ubuntu 9.10/GRUB2. But then I tried adding pfix=ram:

Code:
#
menuentry "Puppy-412 in RAM" {
    set root=(hd1,1)
    linux /puppy412/vmlinuz psubdir=puppy412 pfix=ram
    initrd /puppy412/initrd.gz
}
#


and reboot selecting this item I get kernel panic!

Anyone seen similar problems or any idea of a work around?

Rgds Mike
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Fishback

Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Sun 15 Nov 2009, 23:04    Post_subject:  

I'll add my experience with Karmic and Grub 2. Much of this has been stated previously in this thread, but perhaps one more voice will help someone else.

On my old laptop, I dual-boot Ubuntu and Puppy. (Why? Even though I prefer Puppy, it's problematic on this old hardware, and also because establishing and maintaining a wireless connection with Puppy is VERY problematic.) I recently installed Ubuntu Karmic 9.10 from scratch, which included Grub 2. It was supposed to pull in the settings from Grub 1 - - which it did, except for my Puppy frugal installation. So, I had to do a fair amount of research, along with lots of trial and error to get Grub 2 to properly list and start my frugal Puppy. Info from this thread and other places helped me get my puppy back.

Here's the skinny on updating & modifying Grub 2 via Karmic:
1. It does not use the configuration file 'menu.lst' from Grub 1. Instead, it stores the menu items and configuration info in grub.cfg, in the '/boot/grub' folder.
2. The grub.cfg file is not meant to be manually modified. You update it via the terminal by executing the following command - 'sudo update-grub'. You can, of course, update grub.cfg manually, but your manual entries will be erased at the next Ubuntu update.
3. To update grub.cfg, you add your script(s) to the file '/etc/grub.d/40_custom'. After saving the file, you then execute 'sudo update-grub', which modifies grub.cfg by looking for additional major operating systems on your computer, and by adding the information you entered into the file '40_custom'.

After installing Karmic, it was clear that to get my puppy install back I had to add the menu entry info from my old menu.lst file (which the Grub 2 install left intact) into the file '40_custom'. Unfortunately, the syntax has changed in Grub 2, along with how and where you make changes to the menu selections. Also, partition numbering now starts at 1 instead of 0. Here's a comparison of my the menu data for grub 1 and grub 2.

Grub 1
Quote:
title Puppy Linux 4.30 (retro)- Frugal Install
rootnoverify (hd0,4)
kernel /puppy430/vmlinuz pmedia=idehd psubdir=puppy430 nosmp pfix=fsck
initrd /puppy430/initrd.gz


Grub 2
Quote:
menuentry "Puppy Linux 4.30 (retro)- Frugal Install" {
set root=(hd0,5)
linux /puppy430/vmlinuz pmedia=idehd psubdir=puppy430 nosmp pfix=fsck
initrd /puppy430/initrd.gz
}


Note the changes:
1. 'title' has become 'menuentry'
2. title text needs to be in quotation marks
3. 'rootnoverify' has become 'set root='
4. partition numbering now starts at 1 instead of 0
5. 'kernel' has become 'linux'
6. You now need to have brackets setting off all of the menu entry settings except the menuentry heading.

SO, the Grub 2 developers changed pretty much everything about grub, much of it seemingly for no reason other than to be different. This is what happens when you let software developers loose with no supervision. Because they understand the code so well, I've seen time and time again that software developers make programs overly and unnecessarily complex for the other people who will use it.

The code may be extremely functional - even brilliant. But folks, we're talking about a bootloader here and as it stands now it's a POS. How in the world can you expect the average person to understand how to modify their boot menu? And what appears in this thread only scratches the surface - there are many pages of Grub 2 'user information' on the web. Someone new to bootloaders will likely quickly give up and return to the warm folds of Microsoft.

If you have patience and a strong cup of coffee at the ready, here's Ubuntu's community documentation for Grub 2. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2

One final note: Grub 2 takes twice as much time to load, compared to Grub 1. After turning my laptop on, there are several seconds of non-activity before Grub 2 decides to load. The first couple of times I booted I thought it had hung. That's progress fer ya.

Likely, I'll revert to Grub 1 in the next few days. And I really, really hope that Puppy doesn't come armed with Grub 2 until it's ready for prime time, and the masses.

Edited_time_total
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alienjeff


Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 2291
Location: Winsted, CT - USA

PostPosted: Sun 15 Nov 2009, 23:07    Post_subject:  

To paraphrase an American PSA (public service announcement): friends don't let friends install Ubuntu.

Reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsSIpDK16c4

_________________
hangout: ##b0rked on irc.freenode.net
diversion: http://alienjeff.net - visit The Fringe
quote: "The foundation of authority is based upon the consent of the people." - Thomas Hooker

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Fishback

Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Sun 15 Nov 2009, 23:45    Post_subject:  

Ubuntu is fine. It's the choice of the Ubuntu community to distribute Grub 2 with their latest release that makes no sense.
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ICPUG

Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov 2009, 09:21    Post_subject:  

Thanks for the info on Grub2 Fishback.

I knew they were going to change numbering to start from 1 rather than 0, I thought to make it more logical for the non programmers.

From your notes, (e.g. hd0,5), it seems disk numbering still starts from 0 but partitions start from 1! How does that help anybody?

Grub4Dos is the best, (in my opinion), but if Ubuntu starts using Grub2 we have to start thinking about it - if only to give the right instructions for dual booting Puppy with Ubuntu.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8344

PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov 2009, 09:29    Post_subject:  

Quote:
Grub4Dos is the best, (in my opinion), but if Ubuntu starts using Grub2 we have to start thinking about it - if only to give the right instructions for dual booting Puppy with Ubuntu.

Easy...suggest using grub4dos...already has ext4 and 256 inode support

mike
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davesurrey

Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 1201
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov 2009, 10:08    Post_subject:  

I have no problems with what Fishback wrote, especially as I wrote very much the same earlier on this thread, Smile please see http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=356423#356423

But Fishback has chosen to add the grub stanza to the 40_custom file, which is a sort of template, whereas I believe the Grub folk suggest adding a new config file eg 41_puppy. If you do this then you need to add an important step in making it executable. See my previous post.

Also apparently some grub2 versions need grub-makeconfig rather than update-grub.

I could be wrong as the documentation is far from good but I've not come unstuck yet. (famous last words).

HTH
Dave
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Jim1911

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 2457
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov 2009, 10:45    Post_subject: File name  

Quote:
But Fishback has chosen to add the grub stanza to the 40_custom file, which is a sort of template, whereas I believe the Grub folk suggest adding a new config file eg 41_puppy.
Other names may be more appropriate especially if you want your puppy to show up at the top of your menu.

From ubuntu's grub2 instructions.
Quote:

#When "update-grub" is executed, Grub 2 will read /etc/default/grub and the files in contained in the /etc/grub.d folder. This combination will set the visual parameters of the grub menu (/etc/default/grub) and search for linux kernels, other operating systems, and items designated in user-created scripts in /etc/grub.d. The script files in /etc/grub.d perform the following tasks:
* 10_linux searches for installed linux kernels.
* 30_os-prober searches for other operating systems.
* 40_custom and any other user-created files in the /etc/grub.d folder add menu items designated in the script files created by users.
# The name of the file determines the order in the menu. 30_os-prober entries will be placed before 40_custom entries, which will be placed before any higher-numbered entries.


Since "update-grub" reads the above files in order, if the name is 41_puppy, your puppy files will be placed at the bottom of your menu. If you want to get higher on the menu, your new custom file should be named something lower than 10_linux, ie 07_puppy.



Jim

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Fishback

Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov 2009, 19:55    Post_subject:  

Both ICPUG and mikeb suggest using grub4dos. I haven't used grub4dos but I accept that it's a much better alternative to Grub 2. Unfortunately, Grub 2 is offered as part of the Karmic install. So, dual-boot Puppy users who install Karmic from scratch will be faced with an immediate decision on whether to install or update to Grub 2. If Grub 1 is already installed, you do have the choice of keeping it or upgrading. But the newest version of a software app is always better, right? Grub 2 may be an upcoming major headache for the Puppy community.

Davesurry pointed out that I modified the 40_custom file. Initially, I created a new script file (copied over the header info and made it executable) but for some reason the contents of that file were not pulled into grub.cfg. The constant rebooting on my old laptop was wearing thin, so that's when I decided to modify the 40_custom file. It worked and I never looked back. This problem could have been due to some undocumented need for a specific naming convention, or something else. But my experience indicates this may be another major Grub 2 issue that will appear in the Puppy forums.
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davesurrey

Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 1201
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov 2009, 20:22    Post_subject:  

Fishback wrote:
Quote:
Davesurry pointed out that I modified the 40_custom file. Initially, I created a new script file (copied over the header info and made it executable) but for some reason the contents of that file were not pulled into grub.cfg.


How did you make it executable?
I used
Code:
 sudo chmod +x /etc/grub.d/41_puppy
assuming your new file was 41_puppy. Change as appropriate.

Can you show us your original (non 40_custom ) file so we can see what might be wrong. What were the first 2 lines of the file?

Thanks
Dave
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Fishback

Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov 2009, 21:01    Post_subject:  

The file I created was named 40_puppy and it had the exact same contents as 40_custom. I deleted 40_puppy but here's the full contents of 40_custom:

Quote:
#!/bin/sh
exec tail -n +3 $0
# This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries. Simply type the
# menu entries you want to add after this comment. Be careful not to change
# the 'exec tail' line above.
menuentry "Puppy Linux 4.30 (retro)- Frugal Install" {
set root=(hd0,5)
linux /puppy430/vmlinuz pmedia=idehd psubdir=puppy430 nosmp pfix=fsck
initrd /puppy430/initrd.gz
}


I used the same command that you did to make the file executable, with the file name changed of course. I also made the file executable via the file's properies.
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davesurrey

Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 1201
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov 2009, 21:59    Post_subject:  

Thanks Fishbank,
I still feel this whole thing is a bit of trail and error, especially as Grub2 is still in Beta !!!

So, have you tried eliminating
Code:
nosmp pfix=fsck
from the stanza?
Also try adding EOF at the last line of the script.
Then update-grub again.

I had a lot of trouble until I really simplified the script.



Dave
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jeditalian

Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed 18 Nov 2009, 03:36    Post_subject:  

i didnt check how old this thread is, but since its dealing with 9.10 and 4.3.1, it cant be very old.
when you fixed your grub.cfg, did you have to go through setup every time you booted puppy? because i did. and having to go through setup every time means half the time i will end up with an invisible mouse cursor. but at least you got puppy and koala to cooperate. i couldnt figure it out because i couldnt edit the grub.cfg, until i discovered "gksudo nautilus".
i'm new to every live distro except knoppix, and i never installed knoppix to hd because i didnt know about synaptic package manager, and the equivalent of ubuntu software center, which is exactly what i needed to make a hd install worthwhile. i like puppy linux so much that i am considering (after backing up some files, or at least moving them to a separate partition) wiping my hard drive and installing puppy first, if that will defeat the karmic koala grub situation. i was happy with the boot selection that my bios provided. i know grub is better, with command prompt option and all, but with the old way, new installations would just show up on the boot select prompt. i didnt know the TMP/whatever that tells me what to put in my nonexistent menu.lst file was not going to the TMP directory on the partition that i installed puppy to, so i will have to do the live cd thing again tomorrow and save the file to see if what i put in my grub is the reason that it isnt using the puppy save file, making me gothru setup everytime i want to boot puppy.
i thought knoppix was fast.. puppy is awesome! ubuntu is slower than both of them, even when ubuntu is running off the hard drive and the other two are running live. ubuntu live is the slowest thing i've ever seen. you would think i was running on my old commodore 64lol
hey can we upgrade a c64 and run puppy? lol jk, i didnt mean to write a novel here, but i did.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8344

PostPosted: Wed 18 Nov 2009, 09:36    Post_subject:  

Funny how the discussions on this subject now resemble the problems encountered when dual booting with windows. So has ubuntu become the new challenge for linux to offer an alternative too...constantly endeavouring to monopolise the market? Very Happy
For anyone wishing to try grub4dos with the latest and greatest ubuntu..
bootlace.com /dev/blah
installs the bootloader and menu.lst format is as grub 1

mike
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