Puppy 4.4 CE - Phase 1: pet tests

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technosaurus · #46 Post by **technosaurus** » Sat 26 Sep 2009, 01:06

filezilla itself isn't too big but its dependency - gnutls and its dependencies are - still planned to use gftp or fireftp plugin for firefox or something similar for opera

I can try and compile tightvnc, but I haven't tried using it since last summer so I'll have to upload it blindly.

I was thinking about using zoho sheets or google apps because OOo and koffice are even bigger and siag hasn't seen development in quite a while and it shows. EDIT Simple spreadsheet is an open source php app so that it can be used in a browser - just needs php (add hiawatha a you have access anywhere)

wjaguar has done some great work on mtpaint so that it is now themeable (and many other improvements) - I haven't been able to set up the theme yet - vovchik & ttuuxxx put one together here though:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=46632

technosaurus · #47 Post by **technosaurus** » Sat 26 Sep 2009, 20:41

I have patched petget to use xz compressed packages - it requires tar 1.22 or later compiled with support for xz as well as xz - all are attached.

If you downloaded the tar pet this one puts tar in /bin vs. /usr/bin so that it actually gets used ....I'll replace that one in the .../T/444 as well

This will free up server space, reduce bandwidth usage, decrease download times for our dialup users and install roughly just as fast as gzipped pets.

Please test - I would like to set .pxt as the default package type.
I will be uploading pxt packages as well to test.

James C · #48 Post by **James C** » Sun 27 Sep 2009, 00:30

While testing an apparent bug in the 4.30 remaster script I ended up with an "extra" 430 install to test with.

Just installed the QT webkit browser and dependencies, with no problem.Seems pretty quick.

James C · #49 Post by **James C** » Sun 27 Sep 2009, 02:07

QT browser in action in Puppy 430.

Quick but crashes.

technosaurus · #50 Post by **technosaurus** » Sun 27 Sep 2009, 02:49

Wierd I haven't had it crash. I was really amazed that it played flash without having to do anything.

2 questions:
What were you doing it crashed?
What does this output - any "not found"?
ldd /usr/bin/browser

James C · #51 Post by **James C** » Sun 27 Sep 2009, 04:26

Crashed multiple times but only on one site www.reddit.com. Tried it because it was already bookmarked.

Had AlsaPlayer running, clicked bookmark for site, page loaded for about 3 seconds then entire browser disappeared.Could visit other sites though.

Now, with only browser running can go there w/ no problem.

This is on my primary test box P3 733 mhz, 256 mb ram w/ 1 gb swap.

ldd /usr/bin/browser returns zero "not founds",

8-bit · #52 Post by **8-bit** » Tue 29 Sep 2009, 00:35

In Puppy 4.3 the man command from a terminal does not work correctly.
Expanding on that, you will not see any man directories listed in the search in the terminal window and are taken to an online man page.
Whereas in Puppy 4.2.1, when you type man [program] in a terminal and the man file is on the PC, it is found, formatted correctly in temp and displayed without having to go to the internet for a man page.
Also, in Puppy 4.3, the nroff command is available for viewing included man files using the format of 'nroff -man [name of program].
The same command is missing from Puppy 4.2.1, but not needed as man [program] displays the formatted man page correctly.
So between the two versions something had changed.
I only brought this up because it is pertinent to the building of the Community Edition.

raffy · #53 Post by **raffy** » Tue 29 Sep 2009, 03:02

Yes, I agree that some Linux features have to work as is, like the man command.

Some guys have also packaged an MC clone as a small standalone package (alternatives were also posted there).
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=19135

davids45 · #54 Post by **davids45** » Tue 29 Sep 2009, 06:57

G'day,
Further to 01micko's comment about gnumeric, when it works

, gnumeric can fix the Open Office calc problem where OO corrupts an .xls file into a non-savable version when later opened in Excel.
So please keep a working version of gnumeric.
I also appreciated davesurrey's comment about running several Frugals in a single directory where all can access the same .sfs files. The problem now is one has to have two different directories for Frugals to cater for the two different sfs formats. But a single user of a single Puppy would not have this issue, I imagine. But who has only one Puppy??
David S.

Sit Heel Speak · #55 Post by **Sit Heel Speak** » Tue 29 Sep 2009, 07:16

Pizzasgood wrote:...would be nice (if 4.3 hasn't already done so) would be to let the user optionally keep the HW clock on UTC time rather than localtime. This would have no impact on size or speed, it's just a minor change of a couple scripts.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=41680

I second the idea of the UTC HW clock. Wake from hibernation needs the HW clock to be set to UTC on the Dell Mini-9, or else the system time gets thrown off. No doubt the same arrangement holds on other Intel 945 chipset netbooks as well.

ICPUG · #56 Post by **ICPUG** » Tue 29 Sep 2009, 12:35

technosaurus

What init script are you starting from - that supplied with 4.2.1 or that with 4.3?

Crash added some very good stuff to 4.2.1 to cope with a variety of options regarding the location of the pupsave file and minimising the search time for puppy files. They got ignored for 4.3.

Also, Barry's liking to automatically copy the .sfs file to the hard drive, irrespective of users wishes, was removed in 4.2.1 but is back in 4.3. As this causes anomalies sometimes, and I prefer control in the hands of the user, I would prefer to see the 4.2.1 approach restored.

technosaurus · #57 Post by **technosaurus** » Tue 29 Sep 2009, 13:32

I would like to start with the 4.3 scripts and make the 4.2 and choicepup changes to it and maybe a couple of extras to load sfs files at startup without having to set up a save file.

As for the auto-copy - umm isn't that what a frugal install is for. I guess it prevents from having to touch the MBR and install grub though.

As for UTC - would that also eliminate the need to set up the time zone at boot? - I would really like to move all of that to after the window manager is running.

P.S. I fixed the man command - see the 4.3 bug fixes.

clarf · #58 Post by **clarf** » Tue 29 Sep 2009, 14:17

ICPUG wrote:technosaurus
Crash added some very good stuff to 4.2.1 to cope with a variety of options regarding the location of the pupsave file and minimising the search time for puppy files. They got ignored for 4.3.

Also, Barry's liking to automatically copy the .sfs file to the hard drive, irrespective of users wishes, was removed in 4.2.1 but is back in 4.3. As this causes anomalies sometimes, and I prefer control in the hands of the user, I would prefer to see the 4.2.1 approach restored.

Some changes made to initrd.gz makes Puppy 4.3 boot too slow.

Also agree with ICPUG, I don´t like that 4.3 trasnfers the .sfs file to disc and it doesn´t ask me first. Usually I create a pupsave and run from media for HD space limitations (In old machines with old BIOS those limitations are worst).

Although I understand that Puppy 4 series and newer versions are aimed to newer hardware. I don´t see the need to copy the entire .sfs file, if I want to copy a 90-100 MB file then I surely will copy the other smaller files and just make a FULL install instead. Don´t you think?. That should be a user´s choice.

Greetings

technosaurus · #59 Post by **technosaurus** » Tue 29 Sep 2009, 18:43

@clarf - see SitHeelSpeak's post in the additional software section - very nice start to a gui that aims to combine the remaster and installer into one cohesive gui - and "copying the sfs only" is one of the options.

I have been seriously considering adding SDL and gstreamer support. What extras would this allow?

I really like the fact that there are vala bindings that could be used to make a small media player, games etc... like the puppy browser and nicoedit. There is already a gstreamer video example to start from on the vala page.

ICPUG · #60 Post by **ICPUG** » Wed 30 Sep 2009, 12:23

technosaurus,

I'm not sure you understand my comment on the autocopy of the pup-430.sfs.

SitHeelSpeak's GUI is for creating a new Puppy or Puppy installation and would not be for the Puppy 4.4CE itself. I don't actually think it gives the option to NOT copy the sfs anyway. The option button says something like, 'I want to run from Live CD only, copy the sfs to hard drive for faster booting'. Where is the button which says I want Live CD and I DON'T want to copy the sfs.

As it stands, 4.3 when run the first time from a Live CD will autocopy pup-430.sfs without giving the user the option to say no. It sticks it in the root directory of the drive I think. It will even copy to an NTFS drive - which some users may be very upset about.

In the past on 4.1.2 when Beem, (I think it was), had a frugal installation where the pupsave was on a separate drive he had TWO copies of the sfs - one from the frugal and one from the autocopy which he could not get rid of cos it kept getting autocopied!

This is one case I feel where pandering to the newbie is wrong. It is almost Microsoft like in its 'I think I know best' mentality and I will copy the sfs irrespective of what you want.

OK the default of 4.2.1 was not to copy. That is what I prefer.

However, I can almost accept that the Puppy 4.4CE Live CD default to copying but at least give the option to say no before the copy takes place. Then newbies and 'wiser and not so newbies' are catered for.

technosaurus · #61 Post by **technosaurus** » Wed 30 Sep 2009, 13:39

@ICPUG - I understood, just made some basic assumptions (I hear that's bad) that you would not need an option to only copy the sfs if it was auto-copied. Anyhow - autocopy is out but the ability to copy it will be part of the universal installer/remaster. I feel that is a good balance - easy but not automatic.

zachif · #62 Post by **zachif** » Wed 30 Sep 2009, 23:40

I wish there was an easy way (how-to document or GUI utility) to optimize puppy for my machine, once installed on it.
I mean - I would love to get rid of stuff I do not need (NTFS support, dial-up drivers, other drivers for HW I do not have, etc.).
The goal is to speed up boot time, and reduce puppy size in memory / disk.

technosaurus · #63 Post by **technosaurus** » Thu 01 Oct 2009, 02:08

I have uploaded wine_lite-1.1.30 (now under 7mb with even more stuff)
http://www.puppylinux.asia/members/T/44 ... 0-i486.pxt

you will need pxtget - I have updated the mime types to handle pxt so you can just save it to disk and then click to install it

#64 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Thu 01 Oct 2009, 07:09

I just installed your latest Gnumeric/goffice and compared it with 2.14X gnumeric/goffice, and well your latest version is over 700KB compressed larger, it doesn't look any newer and also it looks like it has less functions out of the box, below is a screenshot
the top one is gnumeric 1.6.3 <--- older 2 series
the bottom is gnumeric 1.9.13 <--- Latest 4 series
I just opened both up, didn't configure any menus etc. 100% pure default settings.
700kb compressed is a nice saving, really I never use any spreadsheets at all, I personally think that wasting almost 3MB compressed on something that 1 out of 50 might use is a waste of space, Since the latest abiword can be compiled without Goffice, then Gnumeric is the only app using Goffice these days on puppy. Barry did have another spreadsheet app in the repo, but I forget the name now, also there's siag but that is so outdated looking and hasn't been upgraded in years. Anyways just an Idea.
ttuuxxx

ICPUG · #65 Post by **ICPUG** » Thu 01 Oct 2009, 11:49

I don't want to get into a flame war on what apps to include. Everyone has their own (different) ideas. In the end Technosaurus will use his wisdom to decide and I will accept.

However, I DO use spreadsheets so I would like to comments on ttuuxxx's post.

The 1 in 50 statistic is a guess to back up a particular point of view. Some people use spreadsheets for the purpose they were intended. Others use them as a tool to create mini-databases. As a database tool is often asked for, Gnumeric can suit 2 groups of people. A real database tool is usually sufficiently complicated to be only useful to those who want to create big databases.

I think the other tool in the repos that ttuuxxx referred to was called Plan??? If so, I believe that had licencing issues. There is a note made in the help file.

I tried siag - hmm. I have also tried k-calc (No No No).

The one thing I really like about Gnumeric is its compatiblity with Excel. If you know what keystrokes to press in Excel the same usually work in Gnumeric. Also it can read and write xls files of course. So far I haven't found anything else that is small that is as good.

I cannot really comment on whether gnumeric 1.6.3 or gnumeric 1.9.13 is better. That 3MB must be used for something (well some of it outside of the natural bloat that seems to occur as software gets developed). Perhaps there are more in-built functions in the later version. I know some Puppies had the extra functions removed in the past - which is a right pain for those who actually use a spreadsheet.

All this talk of apps may be immaterial. If a choice pup type approach is introduced you can have an Abiword/Gnumeric sfs pack and add it to the basic puppy.

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Puppy 4.4 CE - Phase 1: pet tests

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