Puppy 4.4 CE - Phase 1: pet tests

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technosaurus · #91 Post by **technosaurus** » Fri 02 Oct 2009, 23:24

gyro wrote: Surely that requires a method of influencing what "/usr/local/bin/defaultwordprocessor" calls.

That brings us back to how the file system is layered backwards, the pupXXX.sfs should be able to be covered by other files on a loaded sfs. This behavior makes it difficult to make useful addons.

droope · #92 Post by **droope** » Sun 04 Oct 2009, 16:43

Hi there,

I've been reading this thread for a while, and I must say I am seeing a bright future

everything is looking good.

On the Gnumeric issue, I would like to emmit an opinion, as well as an idea, that walks side-by-side with the on the fly sfs mounting.

Gnumeric is a very usefull app, and while some people have an internet conection, and could download the app if it weren't included in the main release, there are many that don't, so that would be a heavy inconvenience.

So, the idea: ¿how about if there are two versions of 4.4 CE? - wait, read on -.

One, that would have the puppy core, PLUS some specific software, such as Gnumeric, added to the iso as extra .sfs files, which could be on the fly mounted when requested (by a click on the menu item, for example).

And the other, which would have the core, and nothing else, specifically created for our dial-up users.

That way, we could separate the core from the software... and keep everyone happy, and perhaps lift the weight limitation a little for the with-sfs version.

I think mantaining this implementation of puppy would not be as hard as mantaining two different versions, since the core would be the same for the two versions. Another good thing about this is that if the user has an old PC, only the main core sfs would be loaded, so it should be easier on his resources.

It's just an idea, i know, i'm not the guy who is going to make it work!
I hope this is helpful, though.

Cheers!
Droope

technosaurus · #93 Post by **technosaurus** » Sun 04 Oct 2009, 23:00

Droope,

This is what I am planning to do once Barry has put out 4.3.1 bugfixes
1. Set up for *office.sfs *browser.sfs and possibly *wm.sfs (similar to zdrv)
a.) Option 1 via init and/or boot parameters
b.) Option 2 via load_sfs
2. office.sfs could be soffice.sfs, goffice.sfs koffice.sfs or ooffice.sfs...
3. browser.sfs could be smbrowser.sfs ffbrowser.sfs or operabrowser.sfs...
4. wm.sfs could almost be infinite
5. I would also like to have the zdrv back as a separate sfs for easier cutdown/addon for specific hardware.

droope · #94 Post by **droope** » Sun 04 Oct 2009, 23:39

Great!

Do you intend to include all of these sfs with the main puppy iso? That was what I meant with my post, two different isos, one with the 4 usual puppy files, and one with them plus some extra sfs for some particular needs, in which, if you click (for example) Gnumeric in the menu, the sfs file would get mounted and Gnumeric would run.

If it were me, I wouldn't make the CD 700mb, though.

Sorry for my bad English! I really really tried to explain myself.

Also, whichever path puppy takes will be fine by me. Your alternative sounds pretty good (if I understood correctly).

Cheers!
Droope

technosaurus · #95 Post by **technosaurus** » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 01:54

Droope
700MB ISO not as the default, but I would like to publish a separate torrent as a puplet for developers that has the full zdrv, devx, docx <--new, nlsx <--new and all of the others that will fit... maybe it should accept *puplet.sfs as well?

No worries about bad english - I am recompiling most of the core programs with NLS support, it only adds about 5-10kb each and the NLS packages will be available as well

Lobster · #96 Post by **Lobster** » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 08:50

from Barrys Blog regarding 4.3.1 release date
http://www.puppylinux.com/blog/?viewDetailed=01122

I was thinking of setting the release date for the 1st of November . .

Also team resources growing - anything they can do
please ask . . .
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy44Team

eh . . . talking of asking . . . anyone feel like registering
and adding some of the plans technosaurus is planning?
be our communal guest

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy44

Many thanks

Proudog · #97 Post by **Proudog** » Tue 06 Oct 2009, 19:54

The package osmo will be compiled with support libical (iCalendar) but on my install in 430 report that is disabled.

libical source:

http://freeassociation.sourceforge.net/

Bert · #98 Post by **Bert** » Tue 06 Oct 2009, 22:41

technosaurus wrote:
No worries about bad english - I am recompiling most of the core programs with NLS support, it only adds about 5-10kb each and the NLS packages will be available as well

That's great news for potential translators, I suppose..
Can someone point me to more info about this NLS? Googling it hardly helps.
I know it means National Language System, not National Library Service, nor oN-Line-System or National Longitudinal Surveys...

A Wellminded search shows there have been a lot of developers discussions about NLS, but how can a translator join in and start contributing? Or is it just too early for that?

Thanks!

technosaurus · #99 Post by **technosaurus** » Tue 06 Oct 2009, 23:14

libical is over 300Kb (over 600Kb with c++ support) so we need a fairly good reason to use it. What does it do for osmo? Can any other programs in Puppy benefit from it?

Perhaps I can link against it statically to save some space if nothing else can use it?
I was already able to shrink osmo from 866Kb to 554Kb so it should be doable.

djnrempel · #100 Post by **djnrempel** » Wed 07 Oct 2009, 02:17

Hi - I'm a relative newbie to Linux but am falling in luv with the puppy project. I've used Ubuntu / Linux Mint on and off over the past five years but am being won over to the puppy way (even if it sometimes takes more work, I just love that it makes my old P4 into a kickass desktop that only 25W of power).

I'm pretty familiar with PHP/MySQL, am starting to learn Javascript / AJAX, but when it comes to other programming I am a neophyte. I did some Turbo PASCAL in high school in the early nineties.

However, I'm eager to learn. Is there anything I can help with? Right now I'm trying to learn the ropes of compiling and packaging for Puppy.

(Also, I'm wanting to kick the Microsoft habit before the DRM-riddled Windows 7 is the only game in town)

jabu2 · #101 Post by **jabu2** » Thu 08 Oct 2009, 01:36

Recapping at this stage may be useful?
Maybe this is drafting a minute - or something to go on front page of Lobster's wikka44 ?
- under a subtitle 44 Specifications

Technosaurus has defined the shape of 4.4CE.
In summary, 4.4CE will be a smorgasbord approach, rather like the ChoicePup derivative. It will comprise a core Puppy based on 4.3.1 and maintaining Puppy's ~100MB size, PLUS all or most applications easily available as sfs add-ons (with choices available).

Above spec is based on coordinator Technosaurus posts to forum as follows:

01 Oct
using abiword and gnumeric as a choice pup style goffice.sfs that would make it easy to dump and replace with openoffice.sfs or koffice.sfs. The big trick is getting the load_sfs working since there are significant difference in the structure

02 Oct
abiword/gnumeric ... will be on a separate "office.sfs" that is automatically loaded at boot time if present (which it will be) This will make it easier to include/exclude/replace (for example with koffice or openoffice)

We do have a lot of packages available in the forums that could be integrated into the main body. One thing that needs to first be done with most of them is quality control (dependencies listed in the .specs, properly spilt into DEV, DOC and NLS, binaries and libraries stripped, etc...) I can write something up for beginner to intermediate users to be able to do this and repackage them. ... will also need a place for them to upload or I guess if we go with Opera we could use Opera Unite.

04 Oct
This is what I am planning to do once Barry has put out 4.3.1 bugfixes
1. Set up for *office.sfs *browser.sfs and possibly *wm.sfs (similar to zdrv)
a.) Option 1 via init and/or boot parameters
b.) Option 2 via load_sfs
2. office.sfs could be soffice.sfs, goffice.sfs koffice.sfs or ooffice.sfs...
3. browser.sfs could be smbrowser.sfs ffbrowser.sfs or operabrowser.sfs...
4. wm.sfs could almost be infinite
5. I would also like to have the zdrv back as a separate sfs for easier cutdown/addon for specific hardware." (end quotes)
-----------------------------------------------
Comment: as a potential user, Technosaurus' plans look good to go.

djnrempel · #102 Post by **djnrempel** » Thu 08 Oct 2009, 03:57

One of my main interests in Puppy is as a development server for PHP sites. In terms of modularity, I'd love to see the following options

- Base Hiawatha install
Optional additional packages:
- php with sqlite support
- php with mysql support
- php with both.

Would it be possible to just add Quisp, Sqlite, MySQL as separate sfs files?

raffy · #103 Post by **raffy** » Thu 08 Oct 2009, 05:43

The others are only small so they might as well go with the big one to make one sfs.

aragon · #104 Post by **aragon** » Thu 08 Oct 2009, 10:29

technosaurus wrote:libical is over 300Kb (over 600Kb with c++ support) so we need a fairly good reason to use it. What does it do for osmo? Can any other programs in Puppy benefit from it?

Perhaps I can link against it statically to save some space if nothing else can use it?
I was already able to shrink osmo from 866Kb to 554Kb so it should be doable.

google uses ical (AFAIK) so you'll need it to exchange files with google.
EDIT: ical is used to interchange data with other apps. google calendar is able to import/export ical.

if i remember right, BK also linked ical statically in his latest osmo-package. EDIT: See note here: http://puppylinux.com/blog/?viewDetailed=01005

aragon

technosaurus · #105 Post by **technosaurus** » Thu 08 Oct 2009, 16:24

Thanks Aragon. Seems like we have call for a few programs to have a few static components.

Inkscape - libgnomeprint & libgnomeprintui
abiword - libwv, libwmf,... possibly for plugins aiksaurus, enchant, ...
gparted - gtkmm & other *mm components
osmo - libical
gnumeric - maybe goffice, libglade

to check I basically did the following:
ldd on /usr/bin /usr/sbin /usr/lib /usr/local/bin >>file
sort file > sortedfile
checked which libs only have one or two lines using uniq
found out which program uses those libs from file
put them on my recompile static list

And I have begun to identify others that could benefit from shared libs
All mozilla components (seamonkey, firefox...) - nss and nspr
(this will allow building using the --with-system-nspr and --with-system-nss tags to keep the browser.sfs smaller)
I have been rebuilding the majority of packages and trying to verify that the Makefiles get properly set up to pick up system shared libs rather than using builtin static versions or system static versions. libz is a big offender since it is in /lib and the .a is in /usr/lib (where the build scripts tend to look) putting a symlink in /usr/lib solves this but I have been manually editing the makefiles to replace -lz with /lib/libz.so...

Does anyone else know of any other such nuances?

Aitch · #106 Post by **Aitch** » Thu 08 Oct 2009, 21:17

Hi Techno

Good to see you at the controls on this

I'd like to suggest a noobies request be given consideration, if anyone's up for it

hepcatfive wrote:Is there a Puppy just for newbies loaded with extra help files, virtual tours of installed software, manual PDFs, video tutorials, etc.?

One of the things which irks me is the poor use of video help files - there've been a few on youtube & Lobster did a few....but lots more is possible - How about a help.sfs??

Any offers?

for some reason klu9's Truveo linker isn't working for me...?

http://klu9.50webs.com/puppystuff.html

Aitch

technosaurus · #107 Post by **technosaurus** » Thu 08 Oct 2009, 21:31

Thanks Aitch. I would prefer to have a basic getting started type help page (possibly with extra online links) in the root of the iso. That way it can be accessed from any OS even if it does not support sfs.... but yes its a good idea that I had meant to address. I already plan to make a separate DOC sfs that will contain all of the included programs' documentation (dir2pet makes them, might as well do something with them)

gyro · #108 Post by **gyro** » Fri 09 Oct 2009, 16:41

Hi,
Might I humbly suggest that some work be done to improve the way puppy handles desktop icons. Something a bit similar to the way menu items are defined. My suggestion, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 427#349427

gyro

Aitch · #109 Post by **Aitch** » Sat 10 Oct 2009, 01:19

meagain, I forgot to request inclusion of, and maybe expansion to function re: sfs's , to Catdude's graphical grub

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=27471

Makes for a more welcoming Pup, IMHO

Also some interesting thoughts being explored re: bugfixing/longevity of the Pup, and software maintenance, here

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... &start=135

As I said recently to Colonel Schell, I hope my mind meanderings don't deter you from your task...?

Aitch

shinobar · #110 Post by **shinobar** » Sat 10 Oct 2009, 10:33

Hi all,
I propose 4 app.s from 4.30 Japanese edition. They must be usefull for the next puppy.

pupsaveconfig 1.2 : GUI of personal storage file setting at the first time shutdown.
Grub4Dos 0.4.4.v1.1 : A bootloader supports ntfs, with GUI configurator.
Winfonts 3.3 : If Windows is installed, divert the Windows fonts and the virtual memory.
acpid-1.0.8-5 : Shutdown with power supply button. Suspend by closing the lid such as notebooks PC.

All available from this link.

Remarkablly, Grub4Dos in the Japanese edition enables easy to install Puppy. Follow next procedure. You need not the Puppy Universal Installer.

Boot from the live CD, or with any other measure.
Create a folder at the top layer of any partition (can be ntfs, vfat or ext2/ext3 file systems), '/mnt/sda1/pup430' for example.
Coppy all files in the live CD. (If you copy them on Windows OS, the file names may all turn to upper case. You need correct the case of file names in this occasion.)
Menu > System > Grub4Dos boot loader. Answer 'OK' for any question.
Remove CD and bootup Puppy from HDD. If failed, bootup from live CD and check the procedure up.

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Puppy 4.4 CE - Phase 1: pet tests

Osmo question

Can I help?

4.4 phase 1 specifications

small

Improve the handling of desktop icons

app. from 4.30 Japanese edition