XOpup Interest Group. Puppy Linux for the OLPC XO-1 laptop

[ttuuxxx]

Tomorrow and Sunday I'll spend time on it, My goal is around 90MB or less, most of kernel size is for other unneeded drivers etc, after I get booting and bring some other apps, hopefully 100MB or so including gimp. The Xo version I'm trying to build will be XO specific that way the size would be drastically reduced.

also mavrothal your doing your share Your cheerleading does bring the spark back, but your providing much more than that
ttuuxxx

[ttuuxxx]

I understand that quirky has the same advanced kernel version as playdayz' upup? Have you tried it?

Will it be easier for the interested parties (Uruguay govt, for example) to change the BIOS of the XO? I can help access contacts in Taiwan for this.

thats where I got the 90MB iso size, If Quirky can be that small, so can XO-pup. Plus earlier puppy version were around that size.
ttuuxxx

[mavrothal]

I haven't tried BK's 2.6.31 kernel source but I did try 2.6.30 source and even with the olpc config it does not compile (to anything usable). Also I know that there are still OLPC kernel hacks that are not upstream, and finally playdayz' uPup does not boot with its kernel/initrd. I provided an OLPC based modified kernel /initrd/modules to "convince" the XO to boot.
Initrd is the other headache. OFW does several checks that must see in the initrd and if it doesn't it just stops. So "modifying" the OLPC initrd is much easier than rebuilding puppy's/your own.

I would strongly "advise" to start with an OLPC initrd/kernel/source but I'm really not an expert (I started in linux 1.5 years ago and I have no formal computer training of any kind. Just a user for 20 some years-really a cheerleader).
My very rudimentary approach is described (among other things) here, but I know is not the proper one.
The official way is to git clone the olpc kernel, patch it, modify the dracut init scripts as needed and rpm-build to get your kernel and initrd. The puppy way,... I have no clue (once I tried with the 431 devx and I got millions of errors).

But I guess the biggest advantage in using the OLPC kernels is that the builds can be readily adapted for XO-1.5 when it becomes available, by just switching the kernel (and minor changes). More important, if is build with an official signed build, it can boot ANY XO even if it is "locked"! (this was the case with an Ubuntu build)

Now regarding OFW and reflashing with a "real" BIOS that's up to the Governments and Quanta (the manufacturer) assuming that there is no OLPC-clause about it.
But really OFW is not a problem. What OFW does is to check that your XO is not stolen, allow for network booting, batch re-flashing the machines, test your hardware, play some games and all other nice things. And if there is any FORTH programmer among puppy experts (s)he could really turn it to anything you want.

[ttuuxxx]

Hi I just rebuilt woof 220 and used less modules, and the iso was 94MB, well I needed the devx to recompile the kernel, so I figured why not see the size, I'm thinking about ditching gnumeric and using a static Abiword without goffice and that would save a couple more MB.
ttuuxxx

[hailpuppy]

HI Guys!!!! You cant imagine how thrilled I am to see our puppy on XO!!! This is the one way to bring life to XO. Thanksss for the effort and do continue til one day we can change the fate of XO.

And Mavrothal, is it true that you can speed this process up by a FORTH programmer. Im clueless about programming but I just tried a FORTH user group and cant we find a good FORTH guy to work on this. Well i personally believe that Puppy can be the best Linux distro out there and this effort to make an xopup just adds more testimony to that. In Sri Lanka also there are a set of FOSS guys working on OLPC project and they seem to have managed to workout Ubuntu on XO.

And ttuuxxx, well dropping Gnumeric may be a good idea at first but hopefully our goal is to make xo a real usable computer right? well im sure you guys will continue to work on this on behalf of us all. Both of you are doing a great job guys. Please do keep it up!!!

[ttuuxxx]

And ttuuxxx, well dropping Gnumeric may be a good idea at first but hopefully our goal is to make xo a real usable computer right? well im sure you guys will continue to work on this on behalf of us all. Both of you are doing a great job guys. Please do keep it up!!!

The thing about Gnumeric is that its very large, Its around 3MB of 94MB iso image, actually its the second largest application on puppy next to Gxine/xinelibs/ffmpeg media player. Only lately you can build abiword without Goffice, where before Gnumeric and Abiword both shared Goffice. And to tell you the truth I've never used Gnumeric and probably around 90% of puppy users never uses it either. But gimp at around 5MB pet would be used by around 80% of the people. Don't forget I'll build a Gnumeric pet package with a single click install. etc. By my figures if I drop Gnumeric I could add Gimp and about 10 other useful apps and still keep it under 100MB.
If anything it would be a more useful version for general public.
Maybe even I could add one of the inkscape statics also and keep around 100-102MB iso or img I guess.
ttuuxxx

[mavrothal]

Hi I just rebuilt woof 220 and used less modules, and the iso was 94MB, well I needed the devx to recompile the kernel, so I figured why not see the size, I'm thinking about ditching gnumeric and using a static Abiword without goffice and that would save a couple more MB.
ttuuxxx

Can we see it, can we see it,?....

I would leave Goffice in. Most likely users will need it and the libs are useful for other apps I think.
If you make an XO specific build you can eliminate a lot of things from the xorgwizard(!) and all the video drivers but the intel and geode, all the firmware, all the wireless (but the marvel usb8xxx), I would say most modems but wireless 3G modems, and other dead wight that is required for general use but not for the one specific piece of hardware.
Besides a couple more MB is not going to kill anyone

Oh..., and besides kernel and video you may need some other (but small XO specific) things like olpc-keys (some of the keys are going through the embedded controller!) power management, special key scripts etc probably less that 1MB, but stll.

[ttuuxxx]

Hi I just rebuilt woof 220 and used less modules, and the iso was 94MB, well I needed the devx to recompile the kernel, so I figured why not see the size, I'm thinking about ditching gnumeric and using a static Abiword without goffice and that would save a couple more MB.
ttuuxxx

Can we see it, can we see it,?....

I would leave Goffice in. Most likely users will need it and the libs are useful for other apps I think.
If you make an XO specific build you van eliminate a lot of things from the xorgwizard(!) and all the video drivers but the intel and geode, all the firmware, all the wireless (but the marvel usb8xxx), I would say most modems but wireless 3G modems, and other dead wight that is required for general use but not for the one specific piece of hardware.
Besides a couple more MB is not going to kill anyone

Goffice is only used by 2 applications Abiword and Gnumeric, And the latest Abiword doesn't need it. Barry's inkscape full static is actually smaller than gnumeric, Also the main audience is the youth, do you think many youth would rather gnumeric over gimp or inkscape?
I don't think so, like I said I will provide a link to a single package install, that will have gnumeric and Goffice.
The drivers modules we'll have to weed-out later.
ttuuxxx

[ttuuxxx]

I re-read my previous post and when I read it, it came across a bit harsh, So I didn't intentionally mean for it to be as such. Puppy was always under 100MB, and with 2.14X I came across tons of excellent useful apps, when I look at 3MB that hardly gets used by most users, I think like
Gnumeric VS Xfburn+BMP-with ladspa+5BallGame+Fileroller+Xarchiver+RipperX+Asunder+Streamsniffer+Transmission and still have over 1MB left over.
Gnumeric has always been a bad addition to puppy, yes it gives you a fuller Office package but only a few ever use it.
ttuuxxx

[hailpuppy]

ttuuxxx, come on buddy never get worried about you being harsh or anything. We al love puppy and thats the bond we all have. Damn it!!!! you just dont know how badly i want to help you guys out by lending a helping hand in coding but alas of coding i have zero expertise. The good thing is ive made a resolution that my devotion is for puppy.(good for others who love other distros coz our main thing is to keep linux up and running).. Well buddy I still am for Gnumeric because with both Abiword and Gnumeric no one can complain that Puppy is incomplete..well what you say about Inkscape and Gimp is true also.Hmm infact when i saw the puppy 4.3.1 being 105MB my heart sank coz of the extra 5 MB! simply coz with that 5 MB i cant brag to friends that puppy is just 100MB!!! in addition this 27 th or so Sri Lankan FOSS community is going to have a meeting where I intend to distribute some puppy is to impress them. The catch is, among the attendants to meeting are some key officers who working with OLPC project in Sri Lanka. Lets see im going to put all my efforts to see that they will seriously take puppy in relation to XO...GOD..I just cant see why these people see the endless possibilities with Puppy+XO ????

[hailpuppy]

ttuuxxx, buddy i was just telling you my wish regarding the addition of Gnumeric. didnt intend to go against you or any thing ok? By the way im ok with the Gnemeric pet idea.My wish was to see that it reaches completeness. Even i havent used Gnumeric to any extent so far..but just thought that it would be cool to have it there.And im also with you regarding keeping the iso size below or at 100MB, Mavrothal,what i love about this 100MB thing is it adds to the hype of Puppy. Remember the slogan of DAmn Small Linux...A complete OS just in 50MB.

[Minnesota]

ttuuxxx:

Hi guys, been following this thread with interest. No, I do not have a xo, but been in the computer field for over forty years.

ttuuxxx .... do not abandon gnumeric....I know it is not your favorite app...but it needs to be readily accessible....why.. .because many teachers use it to teach everything from accounting to data base organization. That said... if you can find a substitute smaller spread sheet program.. even if it does not have all the bells and whistles... I am sure it will be appreciated. For years I wrote my own programs commercially and did not have a need for a spreadsheet... but most of my clients used them on a daily basis to supplement programs. It is an extremely powerful tool. Last year I used it in puppy to build a client appointment system. Five to ten contract operators each with her own sheet for appointments. A master sheet of clients. They have been using it for a year now... GO PUPPY! Personally I use spread sheets for quick adding machines as well as historic data collections.

In short... do not abandon a spreadsheet or a word processor.. they are part of the heart of the ability to use the XO as a learning tool.

[mavrothal]

Mavrothal,what i love about this 100MB thing is it adds to the hype of Puppy.

Yeh,... like "the 100MB OS for the $100 laptop"

I really think that an XO-1 specific puppy will be easily bellow 100MB even with Goffice. But this is not really the important part right now. The important thing is to have an XOpup that will support all the XO functions (from game keys and screen rotation to power management and ad-hoc networking), have the puppy feel and speed and not break easily.
Believe me the 100MB is going to be the easy part...

But for know, I'll take anything that will run

[hailpuppy]

Mavrothal, Yes Sir Im with you!!! just counting the days before I can proudly present my XO with Puppy in it.ttuuxxx Please be noted the many thousands of XO and non xo users who are knowingly or unknowingly watching every post you post to this (and of course other. ) threads.. We are with you buddy...not a day passes without me checking on this thread as the first and the last thing i do when i log on to web. Your effort will revolutionize the XO use..and it will benefit millions of under privileged kids and adults world wide who are deprived of the comfort of a pc. Remember the reason the price of XO went up than 100$ ws due to the poor distribution. Im sure the reason for that was the unusable Sugar. with puppy enabled xo ,the OLPC lap will be readily usable and hopefully with the demand the price will go down hence again the poor will benefit. You guys are my heroes...Hail Puppy!!!!

[ttuuxxx]

I haven't tried BK's 2.6.31 kernel source but I did try 2.6.30 source and even with the olpc config it does not compile (to anything usable). Also I know that there are still OLPC kernel hacks that are not upstream, and finally playdayz' uPup does not boot with its kernel/initrd. I provided an OLPC based modified kernel /initrd/modules to "convince" the XO to boot.
Initrd is the other headache. OFW does several checks that must see in the initrd and if it doesn't it just stops. So "modifying" the OLPC initrd is much easier than rebuilding puppy's/your own.

I recompiled the linux_kernel-2.6.18.8 from puppy 2.20 and well It didn't boot I would say because of initrd, do you have the olpc initrd from kernel-2.6.25-20090822.1.olpc.c7d5d12b96a0999.src.rpm which is found at http://dev.laptop.org/~dilinger/testing/
So I can compare the two of them. also I'm going to compile kernel-2.6.25-20090822.1.olpc.c7d5d12b96a0999.src.rpm and see how that goes
ttuuxxx

[mavrothal]

I recompiled the linux_kernel-2.6.18.8 from puppy 2.20 and well It didn't boot I would say because of initrd, do you have the olpc initrd from kernel-2.6.25-20090822.1.olpc.c7d5d12b96a0999.src.rpm which is found at http://dev.laptop.org/~dilinger/testing/
So I can compare the two of them. also I'm going to compile kernel-2.6.25-20090822.1.olpc.c7d5d12b96a0999.src.rpm and see how that goes
ttuuxxx

No I do not. I do have the 20090223.1 which is the last official kernel found in os802 (the one that came with your XO's I believe). However if you download the kernels (not the src) and rpm -i them in your XO should also install the initrd (the newer ones do at least).
Also keep in mind that these initrds do not boot from external usb/sd without a small modification.
Anyway... the 20090223.1-modified "It's in the mail" (hopefully you have space in your in box)

[mavrothal]

ttuuxxx
I do not know what is your work flow/plan but if you want to build a puppy in the iso form (initrd/vmlinuz/pup.sfs) it may be _way more_ tricky and will _not_ boot any locked XO (eg the ones without developer's key).
To boot a locked XO you need in addition to the vmlinuz/initrd from a signed official image the cryptographed /boot/os.zip and /boot/rd.zip files as well as the /security that come from the official build.
So ideally theses files eg the entire "official" /boot folder should be preserved and additional modules should be loaded after, by rc.local. The trick here (I guess) is when you rebuild your kernel from the same_version_olpc_src to give it the same extraversion so is named like the original and then (hopefully) the modules can be inserted in the "official" running kernel. Of course such a scheme allows only for the "full install".

Any way, as I said let's get something that will run on an unlocked machine and then take it from there. Besides running on locked machines might not be such a good idea for the start, before a mature/secure build is ready.

[mavrothal]

OK! Still using playdayz uPup with the OLPC 2.6.31 kernel and the mouse is working. It was "easy". Just set the 'Option "Device" "dev/mouse0" ' instead of the default "dev/mouse". Also adjusted the Xft.dpi to 117 (50% increase) in .Xresources so the default letters are viewable in the 7.5" 1200x900(!) XO-1 screen.

As you can see though now the network is missing although libertas is there! I guess puppy is totally unaware of the XO.

ttuuxxx you have your job cut out for you

BTW can anybody tell me how you can make puppy that runs in full install and does _not_ uses GRUB to load, to run from the RAM? Please!

[eowens2]

Ttuuxxx and Mavrothal - I am delighted to see all of the progress that you guys have made booting Puppy on the XO.

Mavrothal: what did you have to do to get xorg to make you a window? I have been working off-and-on at booting puppy too, and have been stuck at this point for several days.

I have tried to fuse the XO's 8.2.0 kernel (2.6.25.15 with squashfs added, and using unionfs, not AUFS) with Puppy 4.12 components on an ext3 USB stick to construct a hybrid. I moved the XO's xorg-dcon.conf to the hybrid's /etc/X11/, and symlinked xorg.conf to xorg-dcon.conf. I also moved over to the hybrid the XO's xorg drivers: evdev_drv.so, amd_drv.so and mouse_drv.so.

This hybrid makes it thru switch_root but hits a wall at trying to get x-windows up and running and I am dropped to a shell. All of the contents of pup_412.sfs are visible and it is easy to move around in them using the shell.

At this point the /var/Xorg.0.log reveals: "failed to load amd_(evdev,mouse)drv.so" because of "undefined symbols" (The XO's 8.2 uses xorg version 1.4.99.906 whereas Puppy 4.12 uses xorg version 1.3.0). I even tried to move the XO'x xorg into the hybrid...the "undefined symbols" disappear, but incompatable C library problems appear. (Puppy's xorg v 1.3.0 seem pretty tightly bound to libc.so.6=>libc-2.6.1 whereas XO's xorg v1.4.99.906 and its libraries seem to need libc.so.6=>libc-2.8.so...I thought these libraries were supposed to be backward compatible!).

Any ideas on how to proceed? Maybe re-compiling xorg and the drivers with this kernel would do it? I have been working on that, but so far without success.

Ttuuxxx, I cast my vote for a spreadsheet capability too. But if it can be added by a "plug-in", that's fine. There is, I admit, a certain appeal in keeping the base package < 100MB!

In any event I am happy to see all of the activity and interest in this thread.

[ttuuxxx]

I bought a usb Lan card, that looks like the image below, its has a identical blue clear case, but the chipset inside looks different, Anyways I bought it locally for like $20 but on ebay you can purchase them delivered for less than $5, do a search on ebay with the term usb lan and you'll get links like http://cgi.ebay.com.au/USB-Ethernet-10- ... 2a021416ab

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/USB-to-RJ45-Card ... 414983042a

anyways I plugged it into the XO with original OS with sugar, etc and booted up, when It came to the desktop I clicked the internet and boom it was working, I didn't have to configure anything, so finally I sent away for my keys to unlock the laptops I did it on each
Soon guys I'll have something, Man I'm not used to this security stuff, etc


Ps I tried it on puppy on my main pc and it didn't work, so I'll have to try to figure something out.

So it works excellent on xo but not yet on puppy.
ttuuxxx