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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Puppeee 4.3X
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aarf

Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 3613
Location: around the bend

PostPosted: Mon 30 Aug 2010, 04:15    Post subject:  

aarf wrote:
did exactly this crash http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=443451#443451 in puppeee for the first time today.
different was that opera wasn't opened at all during the session.
was rendering a file in kdenlive which was larger that the remaining space in the pupsave that it was going into. i think time out for no key-pressing activity was also a factor. so i think that may be the combination that may cause the crash: no space left in pupsave and no key pressing activity causing the screen-saving-blank to cut in, then not having any memory to continue. just a guess though.

puppeee1
did this same crash again in opera10.61 with many open tabs and with /mnt/home at near completely full before starting opera, so overflow from the full pupsave would have nowhere to go. opera on a separate partition which still has space showing but also has 30% non contiguous when fsck is run.

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Snail

Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Posts: 334

PostPosted: Wed 01 Sep 2010, 04:58    Post subject: Puppeee 1.0 and the 4G  

Not sure which forum to post this in, here or the Puppeee.org/bb one. however the decision made itself, as I seem to be locked out of the ../bb forum at the moment.

Hi,

I have finaly got my old ASUS PC701 (eee 4G) going again. I've got Puppeee 1.0 booting from an ext2 USB stick and it is looking great. I'll probably transfer it to an SD card later.
Now I need to tune it up properly for the little beastie and I have some questions:

1/ I understand that the SSD in the 4G is the very first generation of these chips. Not only is it a bit slow but in Googling I found an authoritative-sounding article that stated that the load-leveling algorithm on these chips was seriously defective, so that in there is basically no load leveling at all in normal service. Since the SSD is soldered to the mother board, I would therefore prefer to use it as a read-only drive as far as possible, if I use it at all.

Is booting from the old 4G SSD likely to be significantly faster than from a modern USB flash stick or SD card? If it isn't, it is very easy, I will just not use the SSD, except to leave Xandros on it. However, if it is faster, I was thinking of placing initrd, vmlinuz, and all the sfs files on the SSD. Of course, I'd need to set up the SSD to multiboot. Is this a sensible approach and do you see any problems with it?

2/ I was also thinking of possibly using a very small pup-save, to hold only fairly fixed data, placing that on the SSD as well and putting all the regularly written files on replacable drives. In 432 I have a 32MByte pup-save that works well but some Puppies, such as Lupu, behave weirdly with small pup-saves. How small can I go?

3/ Does Puppy effectively set noatime for all flash drives? Is it a good idea? Are there any other tweaks to limit writing to flash that I should look at?

4/ I run ttuuxxx's 432 on my other PC. (great Puppy, pity it seems to be orphaned.) I am using Seamonkey 2 for browsing and IMAP email. Is it possible to get Chrome and Claws to import the Seamonkey profile? It's a pain to set up from scratch, especially for multiple IMAP accounts.

5/ I read somewhere that "Chrome" in Lupu is really Chromium, so it doesn't do the "phoning home" stuff that the real Chrome does. What is the situation in Puppeee?
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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Wed 01 Sep 2010, 09:40    Post subject:  

Please let me know if you continue to experience problems at the other forum. I was under the impression that existing logins should continue to work.

If you put a frugal install on an SSD or flash drive, it should do the right thing automatically. Puppeee only writes to the drive during saving and shutdown, everything else happens completely in RAM.

The SiliconMotion SSD in the 4g is quite fast for booting, I definitely recommend using it (the Phison SSDs in later models are another matter). There is a post on Puppeee.com that tells you how to dual boot with Xandros.

I don't really know about exporting Seamonkey data. It should be possible to run Seamonkey on Puppeee - I've been meaning to make an SFS for that.

My impression is that most of the clamor about Chrome spying on you is hype by bloggers trying to get more traffic. It's justifiable to be worried about Google, but Chrome should probably be the least your worries. Wink

I use Chrome because I like the way Google compiles it to work on a wider variety of distros (before I updated libc, I couldn't find a build of Chromuim that would even run). I've removed Chrome's auto update functionality and the other "features" can be turned off in the GUI. However, feel free to do your own research and draw your own conclusions.
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Snail

Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Posts: 334

PostPosted: Wed 01 Sep 2010, 19:39    Post subject: Forum access and flash writes  

Hi Jeminah,

Thanks for a quick reply. I am still locked out of the puppeee.org/bb forum. Logging in through the bb page says incorrect password and from the puppeee.com homepage says wrong password or arithmetic. So it seems to recognise my username (Snail, same as here). I tried to recover my password from the .org site and was told to expect an email, which didn't arrive.

Do you have a preferred policy on where queries like mine should go?

Both puppeee sites are extremely slow down here in New Zealand, this forum is much quicker, but still very slow.

After reading about the poor load balancing on my non-replacable SSD, I am really keen to avoid any writes to it. I like to keep my computers for a very long time and I use my eee quite heavily. My understanding was that unless noatime is set, linux writes to the drive whenever a file is accessed, even if it is only a read. So using any sfs file or the pup-save will trigger a disk write, even though they have not been written to in the session. Do I have that right? Also, is there any way to shut down without a save of the pup-save? This seems as if it could be useful in a number of situations.

I have set up a test 32MB pup-save. It seems to work OK, but the space warning blinker runs as only 15MB is free. Chrome seems to have slowed down. I have yet to move the Chrome equivalent of the Mozilla profile out of the pup-save filesystem however.

I installed to a USB flash using the standard zip file approach. I have an ext3 pupsave but the flash drive is formatted ext2, which i understand to be best for flash. The install went flawlessly. I was however a bit worried initially by the strong emphasis on using vfat in your instruction page. Admittedly there is a postscript that the installer can handle ext format, but the emphasis remains on using vfat. Why is this? Vfat is not even used for MS any more. I doubt very much if anyone will want to put their Puppeee sticks into a camera, which seems the main remaining use for vfat these days.
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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Thu 02 Sep 2010, 02:33    Post subject:  

I have no policy where queries go. However since this is only one thread, it's not easy to search. So it does other users a favor to ask FAQ-type stuff on the forum so I don't have to keep repeating myself. Smile

Hopefully the server migration at Puppeee.com speeds things up. The database could not handle the load before, but at least for me it's better now.

Puppy mounts files relatime. I suppose I could modify the init script for noatime. I don't see any reason not to do so.

You probably want to look into RAMboot if you have at least a GB of RAM. Ramboot loads your save file into ram as well as all your sfs files and never touches the disk again. It is not setup to save at all, but since Patriots clean shutdown patched solved my problem the only reason it doesn't ask to save during shutdown is because I haven't implemented it.

You should format your save file with ext2 as well.

The install script was vfat-only until 2lss fixed it. I suppose I can update the website to be more clear about that. The new version of syslinux supports ext4 as well, but we're just waiting for me to have time to update the scripts.

Usb sticks come with vfat by default. I don't think windows offers to format them NTFS. Plus the installer won't support it, so vfat is your only option if you're installing from a windows machine.
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aarf

Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 3613
Location: around the bend

PostPosted: Thu 02 Sep 2010, 03:35    Post subject:  

jemimah wrote:
However since this is only one thread, it's not easy to search. .

pizza to the rescue

you may also want to try this

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ASUS EeePC Flare series 1025C 4x Intel Atom N2800 @ 1.86GHz RAM 2063MB 800x600p ATA 320G
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neurino


Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 360

PostPosted: Thu 02 Sep 2010, 09:29    Post subject:  

When I try to get my Gmail feed with curl in puppy RC7 I get:

Code:
# curl -u "USER:PASS" "https://mail.google.com/mail/feed/atom" 
curl: (77) error setting certificate verify locations:
  CAfile: /usr/share/curl/curl-ca-bundle.crt
  CApath: none


can someone with a Gmail account check this? (change USER and PASS with your username and password)

Sorry if I bother with Release Candidate stuff but I'm so comfortable with it Cool and maybe it's the same in latest version

thank you
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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Thu 02 Sep 2010, 09:38    Post subject:  

Does it work on 4.3.1?

Maybe curl needs to be rebuilt.
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neurino


Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 360

PostPosted: Thu 02 Sep 2010, 09:42    Post subject:  

I made a little pet on Wary 030 to check my Gmail account and it works (it's a slightly newer version than Puppeee one: 7.19.6 against 7.19.4)
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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Thu 02 Sep 2010, 09:52    Post subject:  

It's possible curl was linked against seamonkey libs that I removed, that's why I ask about 4.3.1. I'll update it in the next beta I am working on.
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sandungas

Joined: 22 May 2010
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Thu 02 Sep 2010, 12:57    Post subject:  

jemimah wrote:
Ramboot loads your save file into ram as well as all your sfs files and never touches the disk again. It is not setup to save at all, but since Patriots clean shutdown patched solved my problem the only reason it doesn't ask to save during shutdown is because I haven't implemented it.

This means that can be implemented as a "manual save" ? (using the save icon on the desktop that actually is not working in ramboot)

I remember you saying that was impossible to save when running in ramboot (but i didnt know about Patriots fix that probably happened after)
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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Thu 02 Sep 2010, 13:48    Post subject:  

You wouldn't get a Save button, but it would ask if you wanted to save on shutdown.
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Snail

Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Posts: 334

PostPosted: Fri 03 Sep 2010, 10:23    Post subject: Noatime vs Relatime, Journalling and SSDs  

Here is a very interesting article and discussion:

http://thunk.org/tytso/blog/2009/03/01/ssds-journaling-and-noatimerelatime/

I'm no expert, but they seem to know what they are talking about.

An interesting comment is that Firefox is "fsync happy", whatever that means Confused , and is no good on SSD's. Would that also apply to Seamonkey?
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6815
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Fri 03 Sep 2010, 12:49    Post subject:  

Snail

I thought it was the number of write accesses, not the size in Mb which was important

Barry certainly thought so when he limited the number of writes to flash drives, or so it seems

Aitch Smile
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Snail

Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Posts: 334

PostPosted: Fri 03 Sep 2010, 13:16    Post subject: Flash write accesses  

Aitch

I think if you read all of that page that issue is covered. The discussion is useful as well.
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