Puppy on Tablets

[rokytnji]

Roky, do your atom powered netbooks use a standard bootloader like Grub?

Yes. Also grub4dos if need be. I can run Puppy off of sd card and use the F key to change boot order also.

I'd make a suggestion but I do not own a big tablet like you do. Mine is a

http://www.amazon.com/iView-IVIEW-420TP ... B00DJ3YEEI

Anyways a

http://www.amazon.com/Leather-Case-Keyb ... B0052AG1UQ

Will turn your tablet into a freaking strong netbook since you have dual cores and your rig is stronger than my netbooks. Mine are

http://www.macomp.com/companionpc.asp

I put 2 gig of ram in them. I basically picked up 3 of them for the price I sold my eeepc 900 for when I sold it (with Slack0 5.6 on it).

I do not know how locked down your bios is. I own a Chromebook also
and the bios in those make UEFI look simple. They are locked down
like a chastity belt.

http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/coffee ... -bull.html

[vtpup]

Roky, too late I already bought a bluetooth keyboard separately and found a remaindered Ipad mini case that fit for $9 locally -- but they're not a single unit.

Roky that chromebook thread was a great read! Enjoyed it thoroughly, especially the end result.

Very apropos since I'm on the local school board and there is a great push to buy a mass of chromebooks -- I've been suggesting linux on notebooks and maybe vpn as being a much more appropriate local solution, but it's getting tough to find anything that runs linux easily. I think student confidentiality is important and am wary of the commercialism and datamining of the G-cloud world. And the dumbing down of users -- seems like a more "difficult" operating system like Linux has advantages to education. I don't just want to teach kids to be consumers, they ought to be tech savvy. Anyway very off-topic, apologies!

I would like to know more Roky about any way you think I might try booting Puppy live from Android, even though it's different from your tablets/phones.

I still don't know how the user in the TechRadar link I gave earlier simply booted 5 different Linux live distros in his device. He acted like it was a simple piece of cake, to obvious to mention. Maybe it is, but I wish he had.

My tablet is rooted, but I haven't installed a recovery (haven't found one yet for this tablet -- for example clockworkmod doesn't list it). There are also no ROMs available yet. It is a pretty new device. Can't even put Cyanogenmod on if I wanted to stay Androidish.

But Puppy is where I really want to end up.


Tonight I tried out a few more vnc and rdp clients, and NOTHING will connect to localhost on the machine, Despite the fact that I can easily connect to the debian install over the network from a remote machine.

Is there a log file on the Deb install to try to find out why the connection fails? It's running VNCServer xrdp sesman. Any help would be appreciated.

[chapchap70]

Here is my menu.lst on my netbook for those interested. X only works in modesetting with this Atom processor. I've tried more than these and usually do manual frugal installs.

Code: Select all

# menu.lst produced by grub4dosconfig-v1.8.0
color white/blue black/cyan white/black cyan/black
#splashimage=/splash.xpm
timeout 10
default 0

# Frugal installed Puppy

title Fatdog64 (sda4/Fatdog620)
  uuid 89b31643-9800-46b1-b034-d02dd10f7c38
  kernel /Fatdog620/vmlinuz   psubdir=Fatdog620 pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck
  initrd /Fatdog620/initrd

title Fatdog64 (sda4/Fatdog700b)
  uuid 89b31643-9800-46b1-b034-d02dd10f7c38
  kernel /Fatdog700b/vmlinuz   psubdir=Fatdog700b pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck
  initrd /Fatdog700b/initrd

title Tahr (sda4/Tahr)
  uuid 89b31643-9800-46b1-b034-d02dd10f7c38
  kernel /Tahr/vmlinuz   psubdir=Tahr pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck
  initrd /Tahr/initrd.gz

title Lupu 528 (sda4/Lucid528)
  uuid 89b31643-9800-46b1-b034-d02dd10f7c38
  kernel /Lucid528/vmlinuz   psubdir=Lucid528 pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck
  initrd /Lucid528/initrd.gz

title Puppy slacko 5.6.0 (sda4/Slacko5.6.0)
  uuid 89b31643-9800-46b1-b034-d02dd10f7c38
  kernel /Slacko5.6.0/vmlinuz   psubdir=Slacko5.6.0 pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck
  initrd /Slacko5.6.0/initrd.gz
  
title Fatdog64 (sda4/Fatdog630)
  uuid 89b31643-9800-46b1-b034-d02dd10f7c38
  kernel /Fatdog630/vmlinuz   psubdir=Fatdog630 pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck
  initrd /Fatdog630/initrd
  
title Community Edition Testing (sda4/CE)
  uuid 89b31643-9800-46b1-b034-d02dd10f7c38
  kernel /CE/vmlinuz   psubdir=CE pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck
  initrd /CE/initrd.gz
  
 title Precise (sda4/Precise)
  uuid 89b31643-9800-46b1-b034-d02dd10f7c38
  kernel /Precise/vmlinuz   psubdir=Precise pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck
  initrd /Precise/initrd.gz 
  
title Simplicity (sda4/Simplicity)
  uuid 89b31643-9800-46b1-b034-d02dd10f7c38
  kernel /Simplicity/vmlinuz   psubdir=Simplicity pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck
  initrd /Simplicity/initrd.gz  
  
title Carolina (sda4/Carolina)
  uuid 89b31643-9800-46b1-b034-d02dd10f7c38
  kernel /Carolina/vmlinuz   psubdir=Carolina pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck
  initrd /Carolina/initrd.gz   

  # Windows
# this entry searches Windows on the HDD and boot it up
title Windows\nBoot up Windows if installed
  errorcheck off
  find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd  /bootmgr
  chainloader /bootmgr
  find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd  /ntldr
  chainloader /ntldr
  find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd   /io.sys
  chainloader /io.sys
  errorcheck on

# Boot from Partition Boot Sector

title Windows 7 Starter (sda2:PBS)
  uuid 2AF2CCA2F2CC739B
  chainloader +1

# additionals

title Find Grub2\nBoot up grub2 if installed
  find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /boot/grub/core.img
  kernel /boot/grub/core.img

title Grub4Dos commandline\n(for experts only)
  commandline

title Reboot computer
  reboot

title Halt computer
  halt  
  
# Advanced Menu
title Advanced menu
  configfile /menu-advanced.lst
  commandline

[gcmartin]

Hello @VTpup

The Tablet is a touch screen device. The only PUP anywhere close to allowing desktop navigation and icon execution in Puppyland on a touch screen is LightHouse64. And, it works but is still a primative for what occurs in multipoint touches. I have and continue its use on a HP touch laptop (AMD CPU) and on several Intel based HP desktops without any issues..

BUT, this is NOT an ARM distro. And, there is no ARM distro in Puppyland which even does what Lighthouse does as a primative on a touch device. There appears, now, today, an official ARM offering for touch which would mean that there is already a Linux distro somewhere which would take advantage of touch on ARM in a greater way. Puppy is too far back to be able to catch up in the short term, I think.

More detail can be found here.

[rokytnji]

Double post. My bad. Use it for Pretty pictures instead.






http://postmyimage.com/img2/421_Graffit ... rtu_03.JPG

[rokytnji]

Is there a log file on the Deb install to try to find out why the connection fails? It's running VNCServer xrdp sesman

Any lof files in Debian are sually in /var. But with install medium that is read only. if it fails. How are you going to read it? Maybe I am missing something here being a uneducated scooter tramp.

Reading your post. Your tablet sounds like my chromebook which I am posting from right now. In other words.
You cannot boot from external media either. That part is locked down.

I.ve owned Acer stuff. Their bios always put my panties in a wad. My ZG5 I just gave to my father-in-law would not boot off of the SD card slot but usb woud be OK.
I was like. Why? Same was true for my Acer 5534 I sold with 4 gig of ram and dual core processors.

My M&A companion netbooks will boot off of any port, usb or sd, is why I like them. I got them cheap for 49 bucks a pop though.

That was why I bought 3 of them. They are hard to find anymore and the newer ones are high dollar. The are school oriented netbooks.

I gave up on running Linux on this chromebook for now. I just capitulated I guess. That attempt I made scared me. I thought I had a 120 buck door stop at 1st.

You are doing better than I did getting Debian going on your tablet. My only touchscreen laptop is a Dell XT2 I built on the cheap. It runs Linux-Lite and the touchscreen works out of the box on it.

I collect motorcycles also and build them from scratch, like my computers.
My motorcycle lifestyle got me into Puppy Linux. Bike Parts> Ebay> Puppy 2.14.
I had a Compaq 1540DM then. If you google "Compaq 1540DM Puppy Linux. I am the top hit in google. The 2nd google hit for Damn Small Linux on a Compaq 1540 DM is mine also.

I was a Linux virgin then. Anyways. Time to take the teas off the stove and get ready for work.
Laterz.

[vtpup]

Thanks @chap and @gcmartin.

The tablet doesn't use GRUB. That's the reason I was asking about booting a live version OS. Any help there in booting a Puppy Live version would be appreciated!

I have a keyboard and mouse for initial testing, and I believe repositories for Debian, Ubuntu and Arch all have touch screen libraries and apps because they created tablet versions of the OS. (Actually, this notebook I'm writing on with puppy has a touchpad with more gesture features than I like -- many have been disabled.)

Those tablet oriented distros definitely have available standalone screen keyboard apps, like Florence (and xvkbd, which I customized and added to my current Debian install). I'm assuming I can add debs to the puppy I choose.

And as I mentioned earlier, this tablet is x86, not ARM architecture.I'm still quite hopeful that a serviceable version of Puppy could run on this tablet.

[vtpup]

Hi roky -- I figured logs were in /var but didn't know which log, or if I needed to turn on something in the vnc server, xrdp or sesman to creaate log entries for debugging connection attempts.

I can read logs because as I said I can vnc in easily from another computer on the network to the Debian install, I just can't get the tablet itself to connect as both a vnc client (in android) and server (in debian) at the same time.

This process is already possible usually and well documented in many installs of Debian, Ubuntu, and Arch on phones and tablets. In fact I even got my old Eken M001 to do it, although painfully slow, naturally.

The Debian install is a full install on the external SDCard, and is definitely writable -- I've instaled a fair amount of software on it through Synaptic.

I'm starting to suspect sesman as the culprit -- and maybe different screen protocols conflicting. Most of the android clients I've tried are real crap.

[amigo]

You'll only be able to natively boot a linux OS on there if the bootloader can be modified/overwritten -or whatever is needed in the BIOS. Usually this is referred to as 'rooting' the device and would require you to re-flash/burn the ROM/CMOS/BIOS with firmware capable of booting a linux system. Many tablets do not make this possible.

[vtpup]

The tablet is rooted. Fastboot is installed I have adb on a laptop. USB debugging is enabled.

[vtpup]

Currently reading about a linux boot loader for android here:

https://plus.google.com/+IanMORRISON/posts/9DvTKTy99Yy

The provided binaries are for the new model MK802IV with the latest firmware (131107) but can easily be tailored to support any device.....

[vtpup]

Well I finally got an RDP Client that would connect to the Debian VNCServer. It was aRDP Free version. The tablet now runs and displays Debian.

Android clients that failed to connect were:
2X client
AccessToGo
Pocket Cloud
Remote RDP Lite

Although not an RDP client per se, AndroidVNC also couldn't connect to the VNC server.

So now I can use Debian on this tablet. I'm typing this note on it now. It runs well, fast enough for regular productivity use, and the client has a touchpad mode that suits a multi-window OS, unlike Android. Actually I found it easy to switch back and forth for touch input modes, since flick panning is easier than moving the mouse off of a border to pan.

Of course this isn't a native install and I'm sure that would run faster, and it isn't Puppy, which would run even faster with a smaller resource usage and all the familiar apps. But it's a start.

[rokytnji]

Tired at the end of the day. It was a physical one.

Edit: All the stuff mentioned below is how I test Macpup for runtt21 when he asks on my M&A Companion netbooks, My Dell XT, .

So take this with a rain of salt. I would install Puppy to

The Debian install is a full install on the external SDCard, and is definitely writable -- I've instaled a fair amount of software on it through Synaptic.

From another computer. Using either Unetbootin or grub4dos on the card (or another spare card) as a bootloader. I usually use unetbootin 1st. Then install grub4dos on the card because it gives more boot options on the card than unetbootin does.

Anyhows. No save file yet on that card. I would syslinux/unetbootin to boot the sd card on the tablet since you say you can boot off sd card. At least that is my impression.
Install grub4dos. Setup wireless, configure touchscreen. Then make my save file on that card. Then make another as backup with a different name.

But I am bushed and am heading to Pizza Hut to go buy dinner for me and the wife.
She don't feel like cooking because she is at a city council meeting late this evening.
So if I am way off base. That is my excuse for today.

[vtpup]

Sorry roky, I created a wrong impression, I think. The present Debian install runs under Android (or beside it) so th boot is to Android. Then I issue a "deb X" command in a terminal in Android which starts the XRDP server. Then I open an RDP client somewhere -- either on a separate computer on the LAN, or on the tablet itself, and RDP to port 3389 on the tablet. That initiates an X session in the Debian install and the Debian desktop gets displayed on whatever computer the RDP client is on.

What I meant earlier was that a full install of Debian exists on the external SDCard. But Debian itself is essentially booted by first starttting the RDP server and then RDPing into it. Not by the tablet's initial boot process. Android is running all the time that Debian is, and you can just switch back and forth to the desktops with a button press. you can run apps in both at the same time (for instance if you are viewing the Debian desktop on a remote computer, while viewing the Android desktop on the tablet. You can run programs in both simultaneously -- download a big app in synaptic on Debian, while writing in a Puppy thread in a browser in android.

When I think of a native Linux install, I'm assuming Android would not be running, and a VNC/RDP server and client would not be running to display the desktop, just X would, conventionally. To do that we'd need to have a boot method for the linux directy as opposed to Android.

I think the next step for me however is to keep this present way of doing things, but try to substitute a Puppy linux for the Debian one. That way I don't have to mess with a bootloader quite yet, and can work on getting an optimized Puppy working on the tablet. After that, maybe start looking at the possibilities for a native install.

[gcmartin]

OK @VTpup

I understand, now, what you have achieved. You are taking advantage of using your tablet to control/use/manage a PC on your LAN or WAN via the RDP client for universal controls over the secure RDP protocol. Good call and it works!

For a PUPPY PC that has this RDP service built in (OOTB), there is none.. This was discussed on couple occasions in the past, but, no developer has chosen to incorporate the service in their PUPs as of yet. In fact few has even added the XRDP server to their REPOs, to date.

One Puppy member HAS created the XRDP server PET that has been tested and works on a PUP which installs it. It is found here. Remember, though, that all PUPs except LIghtHouse64 do not have any OOTB touch feature for using your finger to control anything on the desktop. So, should you connect to XRDP on Lighthouse64, you may be able to navigate-launch the icons on screen with your finger over the RDP connection.

But, things in Puppyland are changing, thankfully as more and more members have newer PC hardware with more RAM where adding this server has little to no hardship/impact in its presence in the running PC system. But, it does add an additional physical user operating along with whomever "might" be using the PC's console.

You idea is especially useful in a home situation for those of us who are armchair bandits as we can use our tablet/phones to change streams of video/music/photos/etc without getting up and walking somewhere.

Thanks for explaining what you have accomplished. Hope others are seeing the advantage of what you are requesting.

[rokytnji]

Ok. I kinda get it now. It is that screwed up bios that checks if a approved operating system is present 1st to boot into. In your case Android. Before it will let a keystroke combo let you switch operating systems on the fly.

That was my plan on my ChromeOS Acer C710 chromebook. Hence the 64 gig ssd install
I attempted before things went south. I wanted enough gigs (the chromebook only comes with a 16gig ssd) to dual boot chromeos and Bohdi. Since Bohdi made a touchpad friendly
kernel.

But. that road is on hold for a year or so. I am waiting for the linux kernel to catch up on these chromebook. Mine is dual core intel instead of arm. I know of one user on the forum
here who states he got puppy going on his c710 but not a lot of detailed info on how that was done. So I basically ignore posts like that.

When I make something work. I document it step by step online like this
http://antix.freeforums.org/antix-11-ee ... t3104.html

But, these chromebook and android devices are lacking such detailed how to do
within a certain user posts "I got Puppy to boot on my c710". Or. " I got this or that to work on my Android device".

Lots of flotsam and jetsom out on the internet lately.

[vtpup]

Hi gcmartin,

While what you say is certainly possible, no, that wasn't my aim.

I wasn't looking to run a server on another puppy computer for access through the tablet.

I just wanted to run Puppy on this tablet. The method for running Linux on Android these days is generally to run an instance of Linux on the tablet under (or beside) Android. That is run headless. Then you use Android to connect to that headless OS via VNC or RDP.

So to do that, the Linux is running a server and Android is running a client. That gives you a Linux desktop in the client, but all the Android touch controls work in the client. The Linux OS does not know it is receiving touch commands at all. It thinks it's a mouse and keyboard -- the actual touch behavior is controlled and translated by the Android client before sending it to the Linux OS.

Now, my problem earlier was that I couldn't get the Android cilents I tried to connect to the Linux server on the pad itself. In other words, for various reasons, they wouldn't handshake on 127.0.0.1 (localhost). Finally I found an Android client that worked, listed earlier in this thread.

To test the Linux OS, before I got the client working, I actually used an external computer to connect to the Linux OS on the tablet. This was done through the LAN, eg. running an RDP cllient in Puppy (Racy) that accessed a server at 192.168.1.111:3389 -- which was the IP of the tablet and the port for RDP.

By doing that I could see that the Linux install was actually running, despite the fact that I couldn't get a tablet client to work. So one part of the troubleshooting was solved. Linux worked and the server was running and accessible. Then I knew it was just a client problem on the tablet, and I tried out a lot of clients before finding one that worked.

Now there's no reason you couldn't do what you say, which is going in the opposite direction. Running an RDP -- or VNC -- server on a remote machine and accessing it with the tablet. That's straightforward and what the RDP clients are designed to do. Again, the particular client handles translation of touch commands so the remote computer does not actually have to be touch enabled. Usually the client has a variety of input styles you can choose from -- some mimic a touchpad mouse, some mimic the flick pan method of Android, etc.

btw, when I accessed the Linux OS on the tablet from my laptop, everything acted normally. I did not need touch drivers at all. The laptop's touchpad acted normally as did the keyboard and the screen worked exactly as it would if running normal Debian on the notebook computer.

One major difference between Android and regular Linux OS's became very apparent. Android only shows one running program on the screen at a time. While Linux desktops show multiple windows and programs. Thus window handling is very different. Android handles multiple programs by showing a special screen with the running program as minimized icons. you pick one and it opens to take over the whole screen.

Hope this info makes things clearer

[vtpup]

Roky, agreed, it is difficult to get good information about these more consumer oriented devices. Older style computers were designed to be generalists -- they could be configured to do a lot of different things. But that generally required some learning and knowledge to achieve. The latest round of devices are designed to minimize learning and knowledge, restrict capabilities, and funnel users into dependency and single source purchases. Technical knowledge is considered a negative (alterations void warranties).

There is no reason why an unbrickable computer can't be built, for instance. We used to have these chips called ROMs -- remember them? Actual Hardware. They didn't change, and could always boot the machine to it's initial operating state. That was a primitive state that the "disk operating system" took over from. Now everything is NAND and the software OS is crammed into it. That software is now even called a "ROM". The separation of functions and hardware vs software blurring is responsible for the ability of large companies to restrict what users can do, and attempts to force them into a single source purchasing mode.

In order to get control of your computer (they were once called "personal computers" --remember?) a user must now resort to possibly destructive hacking of the device. A technical user is marginalized, and most people are removed from the pool of learning about technology on their own machines. Interpreted BASIC was available on all early PCs, it was universal. True it lacked a lot, compared to modern compiled languages, but it gave a very wide audience a start in programming. Now people only buy apps from company stores, or expect hackers to guide them through destructive techniques with counter apps, voiding warranties and often bricking a device they paid good money for.

Anyway, Roky,,, specifics for how I created my setup with Debian are all outlined in command by command detail in the source links I gave earlier in this thread. Sorry about the OT rant.

The main link is:

http://wdowiak.me/special-features/debi ... index.html

[vtpup]

Roky, out of curiosity I searched for links for installing Linux on the C710, and the few I found didn't look accurate -- they talked about GRUB -- is Grub actually available on the C710?

Because I'm looking at buying a C720 to test, I also looked up instructions for installing Linux on that model. These instructions seemed much more specific and accurate (for that model):
http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/76 ... chromebook

I don't know if the c710 is similar to the c720. But perhaps that is a help?

EDIT: After reading this thread, I'm sure you've already researched all the issues and possibilities for the c710:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... =986019934

[rokytnji]

Make sure /dev/sdb is actually your flash drive! If it's your harddrive kiss your data goodbye.

What you gotta love. ChromeOS is not Linux. There is no terminal to do a

Code: Select all

fdisk -l

or

Code: Select all

parted -l

or

Code: Select all

blkid

to check. ChromeOS does not use bash . It's online terminal crosh is a joke. I know because I hit "help" and "man" and read a whole lot of nothing.

So how does one check the dev name on Chromebook?

http://www.omgchrome.com/format-sd-card-usb-chromebook/
http://www.howtogeek.com/170648/10-comm ... osh-shell/

See, saying a whole lot of nothing to a dumbed down audience. I covered things like that
in my "Tits on a Bull" rant about how any kind of document that speaks of instructions
on dealing with a chromebook or android device.

You kind of get a attitude when you hear , "only certain devices will interface with a chromebook (eg: hard drives) and may brick your chromebook".

And here I thought Kingston SSD Now drives were pretty damn standard netbook drives.
Some work some don't.

All I know is that the bios on Chromebooks look for a approved drive 1st, then a approved operating system next. If I had the know how. I'd replace the bios on that
POS in a heat beat. Like I said. I have the wrong attitude now for this kind of stuff.

On another off topic that twists my garters. I have been reading on how clueless
yuppie rubes comment on how 32 bit support should be dropped in Linux since
Windows dropped 32bit support. My Netbooks are 32bit atom processors. My p4 IBM M41 is 32 bit. My IBM T23 P3 is 32 bit.

I am thinking of just installing Windows XP SP3 on all of them out of spite and sell them.
The Hispanics in my area love a cheap XP computer. Or move on to FreeBSD or PCBSD (they still do 32 bit). Maybe I am just being cranky. [/code]