I thought you may know the answer....but in typical Jeff fashion you dropped fecal matter in the punch bowl.alienjeff wrote: Do your own research instead of chastising me for my response to you.
Puppy gurus For Hire
Last edited by tlchost on Thu 19 Nov 2009, 22:54, edited 1 time in total.
Do your own research and don't drink the punch.
And please stop crying.
And please stop crying.
[size=84][i]hangout:[/i] ##b0rked on irc.freenode.net
[i]diversion:[/i] [url]http://alienjeff.net[/url] - visit The Fringe
[i]quote:[/i] "The foundation of authority is based upon the consent of the people." - Thomas Hooker[/size]
[i]diversion:[/i] [url]http://alienjeff.net[/url] - visit The Fringe
[i]quote:[/i] "The foundation of authority is based upon the consent of the people." - Thomas Hooker[/size]
This is an important discussion
I think I may have opened up an area I haven't seen much of in other topics (maybe).
First, Puppy is fantastic, I mean it's just fricking fantastic. You guys may know this, but after a while when exposed to something wonderful the beauty wears off and it seems not as special as it did at first. Puppy could change the world in that it picks up where Gates left off.
In order to corner the market Gates had to constantly "give you more" by uping the ante. This meant more apps and "more code" and "big". Windows is now a behemouth and as such is vulnerable. But very few people know or realize that this little tiny dog from New Zealand can solve all their problems, especially the big one.
I've labored over Windows for over a decade which feels like a century. Then, about a year ago I noticed a little icon in the startup tray called I believe the "Remove Hardware Safely" icon. Well, I'd beens removing usb and pcmcia stuff for years without any problems. So I thought "why this heavy little program at startup? A program I can't not run by taking it out of the lineup in msconfig, one that also has this little non-descript icon?"
I went to the Google and could find precious little about it, and then I started getting very worried. "Could this thing be 'something else' I wondered". It was then I started seriously looking for another OS and found that cute little puppy from New Zealand. But their are problems.
I've introduced others to Puppy by giving them Cds and they tell me in so many words that the learning curve is being bogged down by their inability to get at answers to their questions fast enough. They, like I, am "older". Are not computer "savy". Have this built in idea that a new OS is going to be "difficult".
Take my questions above: AlienJeff couldn't believe that I didn't think of entering "how do I paste" in Google. Well, I guess I didn't. People who aren't savy, but still want to use the system don't think about such things.
And the next entry spoke of "distros" then added "other operating systems". Do you have any idea of how long it took me to figure out what 'distros' means and how "put off" I was about continuing my efforts to tackle this great new system that was shrouded by all this "arcane lingo", that everyone who could answer my questions in the forum seemed to be communicating in.
Look, I'm not bitchin', I'm just sayin' that Puppy is just "three feet from gold". Google is about to launch its new OS. Who do you think they got the idea of a "lite operating system" from. Knowing Google I bet their gonna make it easy to find answers. The only thing I wonder/worry about; are they gonna have a little non-descript icon in their startup tray as well.
Didn't mean to get carried away and thanks for all the great input guys, especially the stuff about freemind. Ya know, some "simple way" to get FM into Puppy would be a real boon. It's very powerful yet little known.
Cougar
First, Puppy is fantastic, I mean it's just fricking fantastic. You guys may know this, but after a while when exposed to something wonderful the beauty wears off and it seems not as special as it did at first. Puppy could change the world in that it picks up where Gates left off.
In order to corner the market Gates had to constantly "give you more" by uping the ante. This meant more apps and "more code" and "big". Windows is now a behemouth and as such is vulnerable. But very few people know or realize that this little tiny dog from New Zealand can solve all their problems, especially the big one.
I've labored over Windows for over a decade which feels like a century. Then, about a year ago I noticed a little icon in the startup tray called I believe the "Remove Hardware Safely" icon. Well, I'd beens removing usb and pcmcia stuff for years without any problems. So I thought "why this heavy little program at startup? A program I can't not run by taking it out of the lineup in msconfig, one that also has this little non-descript icon?"
I went to the Google and could find precious little about it, and then I started getting very worried. "Could this thing be 'something else' I wondered". It was then I started seriously looking for another OS and found that cute little puppy from New Zealand. But their are problems.
I've introduced others to Puppy by giving them Cds and they tell me in so many words that the learning curve is being bogged down by their inability to get at answers to their questions fast enough. They, like I, am "older". Are not computer "savy". Have this built in idea that a new OS is going to be "difficult".
Take my questions above: AlienJeff couldn't believe that I didn't think of entering "how do I paste" in Google. Well, I guess I didn't. People who aren't savy, but still want to use the system don't think about such things.
And the next entry spoke of "distros" then added "other operating systems". Do you have any idea of how long it took me to figure out what 'distros' means and how "put off" I was about continuing my efforts to tackle this great new system that was shrouded by all this "arcane lingo", that everyone who could answer my questions in the forum seemed to be communicating in.
Look, I'm not bitchin', I'm just sayin' that Puppy is just "three feet from gold". Google is about to launch its new OS. Who do you think they got the idea of a "lite operating system" from. Knowing Google I bet their gonna make it easy to find answers. The only thing I wonder/worry about; are they gonna have a little non-descript icon in their startup tray as well.
Didn't mean to get carried away and thanks for all the great input guys, especially the stuff about freemind. Ya know, some "simple way" to get FM into Puppy would be a real boon. It's very powerful yet little known.
Cougar
This is an important discussion
I think I may have opened up an area I haven't seen much of in other topics (maybe).
First, Puppy is fantastic, I mean it's just fricking fantastic. You guys may know this, but after a while when exposed to something wonderful the beauty wears off and it seems not as special as it did at first. Puppy could change the world in that it picks up where Gates left off.
In order to corner the market Gates had to constantly "give you more" by uping the ante. This meant more apps and "more code" and "big". Windows is now a behemouth and as such is vulnerable. But very few people know or realize that this little tiny dog from New Zealand can solve all their problems, especially the big one.
I've labored over Windows for over a decade which feels like a century. Then, about a year ago I noticed a little icon in the startup tray called I believe the "Remove Hardware Safely" icon. Well, I'd beens removing usb and pcmcia stuff for years without any problems. So I thought "why this heavy little program at startup? A program I can't not run by taking it out of the lineup in msconfig, one that also has this little non-descript icon?"
I went to the Google and could find precious little about it, and then I started getting very worried. "Could this thing be 'something else' I wondered". It was then I started seriously looking for another OS and found that cute little puppy from New Zealand. But their are problems.
I've introduced others to Puppy by giving them Cds and they tell me in so many words that the learning curve is being bogged down by their inability to get at answers to their questions fast enough. They, like I, am "older". Are not computer "savy". Have this built in idea that a new OS is going to be "difficult".
Take my questions above: AlienJeff couldn't believe that I didn't think of entering "how do I paste" in Google. Well, I guess I didn't. People who aren't savy, but still want to use the system don't think about such things.
And the next entry spoke of "distros" then added "other operating systems". Do you have any idea of how long it took me to figure out what 'distros' means and how "put off" I was about continuing my efforts to tackle this great new system that was shrouded by all this "arcane lingo", that everyone who could answer my questions in the forum seemed to be communicating in.
Look, I'm not bitchin', I'm just sayin' that Puppy is just "three feet from gold". Google is about to launch its new OS. Who do you think they got the idea of a "lite operating system" from. Knowing Google I bet their gonna make it easy to find answers. The only thing I wonder/worry about; are they gonna have a little non-descript icon in their startup tray as well.
Didn't mean to get carried away and thanks for all the great input guys, especially the stuff about freemind. Ya know, some "simple way" to get FM into Puppy would be a real boon. It's very powerful yet little known.
Cougar
First, Puppy is fantastic, I mean it's just fricking fantastic. You guys may know this, but after a while when exposed to something wonderful the beauty wears off and it seems not as special as it did at first. Puppy could change the world in that it picks up where Gates left off.
In order to corner the market Gates had to constantly "give you more" by uping the ante. This meant more apps and "more code" and "big". Windows is now a behemouth and as such is vulnerable. But very few people know or realize that this little tiny dog from New Zealand can solve all their problems, especially the big one.
I've labored over Windows for over a decade which feels like a century. Then, about a year ago I noticed a little icon in the startup tray called I believe the "Remove Hardware Safely" icon. Well, I'd beens removing usb and pcmcia stuff for years without any problems. So I thought "why this heavy little program at startup? A program I can't not run by taking it out of the lineup in msconfig, one that also has this little non-descript icon?"
I went to the Google and could find precious little about it, and then I started getting very worried. "Could this thing be 'something else' I wondered". It was then I started seriously looking for another OS and found that cute little puppy from New Zealand. But their are problems.
I've introduced others to Puppy by giving them Cds and they tell me in so many words that the learning curve is being bogged down by their inability to get at answers to their questions fast enough. They, like I, am "older". Are not computer "savy". Have this built in idea that a new OS is going to be "difficult".
Take my questions above: AlienJeff couldn't believe that I didn't think of entering "how do I paste" in Google. Well, I guess I didn't. People who aren't savy, but still want to use the system don't think about such things.
And the next entry spoke of "distros" then added "other operating systems". Do you have any idea of how long it took me to figure out what 'distros' means and how "put off" I was about continuing my efforts to tackle this great new system that was shrouded by all this "arcane lingo", that everyone who could answer my questions in the forum seemed to be communicating in.
Look, I'm not bitchin', I'm just sayin' that Puppy is just "three feet from gold". Google is about to launch its new OS. Who do you think they got the idea of a "lite operating system" from. Knowing Google I bet their gonna make it easy to find answers. The only thing I wonder/worry about; are they gonna have a little non-descript icon in their startup tray as well.
Didn't mean to get carried away and thanks for all the great input guys, especially the stuff about freemind. Ya know, some "simple way" to get FM into Puppy would be a real boon. It's very powerful yet little known.
Cougar
For the sake of accuracy, Puppy originated in Australia, not New Zealand.
Don't let a bit of political infighting (or jousting) put you off.
Contrary to popular belief, Google is NOT your friend. Consider using Scroogle instead.
Don't let a bit of political infighting (or jousting) put you off.
Contrary to popular belief, Google is NOT your friend. Consider using Scroogle instead.
[size=84][i]hangout:[/i] ##b0rked on irc.freenode.net
[i]diversion:[/i] [url]http://alienjeff.net[/url] - visit The Fringe
[i]quote:[/i] "The foundation of authority is based upon the consent of the people." - Thomas Hooker[/size]
[i]diversion:[/i] [url]http://alienjeff.net[/url] - visit The Fringe
[i]quote:[/i] "The foundation of authority is based upon the consent of the people." - Thomas Hooker[/size]
That almost sounds conciliatory. Do you still have that big screw in your head? I think I responded to an email from you once about Caitlyn M. I forgot what it was about but she is a demented sicko. I am really trying to be nice here.alienjeff wrote:For the sake of accuracy, Puppy originated in Australia, not New Zealand.
Don't let a bit of political infighting (or jousting) put you off.
Contrary to popular belief, Google is NOT your friend. Consider using Scroogle instead.
Cougar
The point you raise has been raised before - a number of times.
Unfortunately - Puppy will never traverse that 3 feet to the gold. If you expect it to, you are in for a traumatic time.
Puppy is driven by developers. That may seem a daft statement - of course it has to be developed. However, Windows is driven by marketing, Ubuntu is driven by a man with a lot of money.
Another point is the developers must have fun - after all they work for nothing. If you don't like what you get, ask for your money back.
In case anybody doesn't realise it, this is my cynical humour - but these are the sort of responses I have seen time and again when a non-developer dares suggest a change that might benefit the wider world - but will not benefit developers or will lower their fun threshold.
Now, to developers documentation is boring. The result is the documentation/help file is sometimes less than is necessary for the outside world.
Program maintenance is also boring. Developers always want to do something new - not correct that hard to correct bug that they don't have a problem with - they just work round it. Constant newness also makes documentation harder. Puppy never keeps still long enough to write it down!
This is not to say the outside world and users in particular are all sweetness and light. They can sometimes go too far in their wants - especially when they want to try and mimic what Windows does or, in Puppy's case, want to bloat it beyond the 100MB limit.
I wish Puppy would traverse that 3 foot but I know it won't. I still use Puppy while the developers at least meet a good proportion of my needs and try and stay calm when they do something I consider detrimental to Puppy's wider acceptance!
The point you raise has been raised before - a number of times.
Unfortunately - Puppy will never traverse that 3 feet to the gold. If you expect it to, you are in for a traumatic time.
Puppy is driven by developers. That may seem a daft statement - of course it has to be developed. However, Windows is driven by marketing, Ubuntu is driven by a man with a lot of money.
Another point is the developers must have fun - after all they work for nothing. If you don't like what you get, ask for your money back.
In case anybody doesn't realise it, this is my cynical humour - but these are the sort of responses I have seen time and again when a non-developer dares suggest a change that might benefit the wider world - but will not benefit developers or will lower their fun threshold.
Now, to developers documentation is boring. The result is the documentation/help file is sometimes less than is necessary for the outside world.
Program maintenance is also boring. Developers always want to do something new - not correct that hard to correct bug that they don't have a problem with - they just work round it. Constant newness also makes documentation harder. Puppy never keeps still long enough to write it down!
This is not to say the outside world and users in particular are all sweetness and light. They can sometimes go too far in their wants - especially when they want to try and mimic what Windows does or, in Puppy's case, want to bloat it beyond the 100MB limit.
I wish Puppy would traverse that 3 foot but I know it won't. I still use Puppy while the developers at least meet a good proportion of my needs and try and stay calm when they do something I consider detrimental to Puppy's wider acceptance!
Never say never
ICPUG
Great reply!! Great!! You've hit the nail right on the head. This is exactly the problem. It is not a "technical" problem. It is a "social" problem. It could be very likened to a football game in which the backfield, with their specific set of skills, can ionly ncrementally move the ball forward just so far. Their is a point reached where they are running out of "time" or "downs", so they switch to a new strategy and use other players with different "skills".
The developers have only gotten us so far, now it's time to send in the "B" team.A team with a different set of skills and especially, motivations. These people see an "elephant" while others only see a "Puppy".
Enough of analogy. This thing has gargantuan potential and those driving all of this only see it as a play toy. Why not take a page right out of Gates play book. Puppy is already being given away like Gates gave away Windows 3.1 (initially). While the applications are free also, their is no reason someone couldn't write apps for Puppy and sell them, is there? And even if there is then still, there is another way.
All people really want is a computer that works. They don't give a damn "how" it works anymore than they're interested in the engineering behind their automobile. They just want to jump on the back of this Puppy and ride him from website to website, euphemistically speaking.
If Puppy is "difficult" to get answers and solutions to than great, use it!! I mean, if life gives you lemons make Margaritas. Why not take Puppy, in the raw, and combine it with the specific things people want in their "Puppy Package". Sure, the OS is free as is the apps, it's putting it together that will cost. Custom "packaging", that's the ticket.
Then take this thing public by inducing those "developers" who have a more "global" outlook and want to make the world a better place a part of this thing. They however must be in the back seat, as their mindset is that of the "A" team. A different mindset is needed now. One that can go deep, for the "touchdown"
Further, clients are going to need ongoing assistance. From time to time they're going to have problems, which they will gladly (or otherwise) pay for. Then there are going to be opportunities for ancillary sales, you know; website hosting & IP provider services specific to Puppy, educational materials, WINE tools to allow them to use other OS applications, printer ink and supplies. Hell, we might even be able to develop an entire line of computers specifically tailored to Puppy.
We could even induce Barry to do commercials for us. Run 'em on Inet radio and TV stations. Yea, turn him into the "Man of the Year" who with his little Puppy broke out all the "windows" at Microsoft.
Sorry, didn't mean to get carried away, I was just having so much fun. Well, I enjoyed it.
Cougar
Great reply!! Great!! You've hit the nail right on the head. This is exactly the problem. It is not a "technical" problem. It is a "social" problem. It could be very likened to a football game in which the backfield, with their specific set of skills, can ionly ncrementally move the ball forward just so far. Their is a point reached where they are running out of "time" or "downs", so they switch to a new strategy and use other players with different "skills".
The developers have only gotten us so far, now it's time to send in the "B" team.A team with a different set of skills and especially, motivations. These people see an "elephant" while others only see a "Puppy".
Enough of analogy. This thing has gargantuan potential and those driving all of this only see it as a play toy. Why not take a page right out of Gates play book. Puppy is already being given away like Gates gave away Windows 3.1 (initially). While the applications are free also, their is no reason someone couldn't write apps for Puppy and sell them, is there? And even if there is then still, there is another way.
All people really want is a computer that works. They don't give a damn "how" it works anymore than they're interested in the engineering behind their automobile. They just want to jump on the back of this Puppy and ride him from website to website, euphemistically speaking.
If Puppy is "difficult" to get answers and solutions to than great, use it!! I mean, if life gives you lemons make Margaritas. Why not take Puppy, in the raw, and combine it with the specific things people want in their "Puppy Package". Sure, the OS is free as is the apps, it's putting it together that will cost. Custom "packaging", that's the ticket.
Then take this thing public by inducing those "developers" who have a more "global" outlook and want to make the world a better place a part of this thing. They however must be in the back seat, as their mindset is that of the "A" team. A different mindset is needed now. One that can go deep, for the "touchdown"
Further, clients are going to need ongoing assistance. From time to time they're going to have problems, which they will gladly (or otherwise) pay for. Then there are going to be opportunities for ancillary sales, you know; website hosting & IP provider services specific to Puppy, educational materials, WINE tools to allow them to use other OS applications, printer ink and supplies. Hell, we might even be able to develop an entire line of computers specifically tailored to Puppy.
We could even induce Barry to do commercials for us. Run 'em on Inet radio and TV stations. Yea, turn him into the "Man of the Year" who with his little Puppy broke out all the "windows" at Microsoft.
Sorry, didn't mean to get carried away, I was just having so much fun. Well, I enjoyed it.
Cougar
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Sit Heel Speak
- Posts: 2595
- Joined: Fri 31 Mar 2006, 03:22
- Location: downwind
Does anyone like this idea?
Is their anyone who can see this. You've got a great and wonderful thing here that's going to die on the vine. Why not put it into the hands of those who will use it for a grander purpose than those who use it as, what seems to be a play toy.
We've heard from the negative side. Is there anyone who deal with this in a positive way. What about you Barry? You wanna see your work wither while the the Googles of this world essentially copy the basic idea of Puppy, I.E. simple and "open source".
Cougar
We've heard from the negative side. Is there anyone who deal with this in a positive way. What about you Barry? You wanna see your work wither while the the Googles of this world essentially copy the basic idea of Puppy, I.E. simple and "open source".
Cougar
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timmypaine
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat 21 Nov 2009, 14:59
Hello Cougar,
In this world 65% people loves puppies.So you are among those 65% people and even i love puppies.There are many things not to like in puppies and they are that they keep on barking whole day,they do shiting anywhere they feel etc.In this case i cant help you because it needs money and if you dont have it than i am helpless.sorry friend.Thank you.
In this world 65% people loves puppies.So you are among those 65% people and even i love puppies.There are many things not to like in puppies and they are that they keep on barking whole day,they do shiting anywhere they feel etc.In this case i cant help you because it needs money and if you dont have it than i am helpless.sorry friend.Thank you.
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