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pUPnGO - 6Mb ISO - Basic Building Block Puplet
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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec 2010, 16:47    Post subject:  

technosaurus: I never used CD/DVD-save myself - just was annoyed that it did not work and pUPnGO missed that feature as it seems to be basic/core Puppy.

I like your ideas - think it might liberate chose sfs´s totally - might need some more /dev/loop´s though.
Another thought: CD/DVD save seems to only saving new stuff from each session and merge them at boot - could be an alternative way to have a personal savefile-structure - maybe it could be inside your suggested compressed 2fs file stored in the initrd...
But would it still be Puppy? And how many hacks must a man...?
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4351

PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec 2010, 17:36    Post subject:  

The save file can be just a plain jane ext# file system with no folders (aufs will add them as needed) I've already done some experiments with that part because I didn't like the idea losing work because of waiting until first shutdown to create the save file... Now that I have completely removed my ntfs partition, I just work from a mounted partition for stuff I want to keep.

busybox mount can now automatically create new loops up to 255 (however this can be increased in the code)
Here is the original busybox commit:
http://git.busybox.net/busybox/commit/?id=375a8ef5ea38ea10134c125c75a12bbf9d5ba7bd
tiny core is already using this feature (I think one of their devs may have sent the patch)

Gaining the ability to roll back would be a nice incidental feature.
(Seems like it could be used for any type of install)

Honestly I don't know how the existing save2cd works - my only other thought was to use a tar archive since it has the ability to add new additional files to the end of the "Tape ARchive", however I don't know if the cd tools could handle that (if they write anything at the end it would probably fail?) someone was writing a specific filesystem just for this purpose at one point - not sure where it went though
Edit - here:
http://keyj.s2000.at/?p=275#more-275
Edit2 - found a nifty little curses style mixer (mmix) that compiles to 17kb with static dietlibc
http://www.mcmilk.de/projects/mmix/
mmix-0.3-diet.pet
Description 
pet

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Filename  mmix-0.3-diet.pet 
Filesize  10.82 KB 
Downloaded  204 Time(s) 

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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Thu 16 Dec 2010, 16:24    Post subject:  

Worked with modifying SFS-TCZ_Linker-2.1-T for pupngo - works now but seems to me it is a too complicated way of getting sfs content usable...sfs must be special build (/etc/choice, pinstall) and some scripts using readlink must be recoded.
You can modify it to load sfs on the bootdisk at first boot - but maybe a fake cd-save folder could do the same?
I have been looking for some info on the aufs setup - but haven't got a clue yet...It should be possible to append a file system to the running aufs mount...but I have only failed until now..
Running below code second command fails:
# mount -t aufs -o br:/tmp/rw none /tmp/aufs
# mount -o remount,append:${HOME} /tmp/aufs

with:
/sbin/mount.aufs:plink.c:223: AUFS_CTL_PLINK_MAINT: Inappropriate ioctl for device

??? Maybe my aufs-tools from Debian do not work in P412 (could not compile from source either)
But it would be a nice and clean method to load/unload sfs-files if possible.

The mmix is cool! (hard to view with white background in rxvt - in console it is beautiful!)

The roll-back opportunity would be nice to have - sort of eliminates the need for backups - I will look into this when I have some better time.
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4351

PostPosted: Thu 16 Dec 2010, 19:37    Post subject:  

yeah - I need to set the background color in the mixer script ...can just use the alsa-mixer script I think (I always have mine set to black, so I didn't think about it)
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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Fri 17 Dec 2010, 11:44    Post subject:  

A short follow up on mounting sfs directly in the root-unionfs. I succeeded in appending a normal sfs-file to the root branch - might have reinvented the wheel but thats ok with me....
Commands:
1. #mkdir /tmp/sfs
2. mount your SFS-file on /tmp/sfs - ex:
#mount -t squashfs -o loop /tmp/lynx2-8-7-i486_412.sfs /tmp/sfs
3. #mount -o remount,append:/tmp/sfs=ro /
output of mount hereafter:
unionfs on / type aufs (rw,si=74ad6b34,xino=/initrd/pup_rw/.aufs.xino,diropq=w,dirs=/initrd/pup_rw=rw:/initrd/pup_ro2=ro:/initrd/pup_ro4=ro:/initrd/pup_ro5=ro:/tmp/sfs=ro)

And good old lynx runs ok.

To remove the sfs again:
#mount -o remount,del:/tmp/sfs /

output of mount hereafter:
unionfs on / type aufs (rw,si=74ad6b34,xino=/initrd/pup_rw/.aufs.xino,diropq=w,dirs=/initrd/pup_rw=rw:/initrd/pup_ro2=ro:/initrd/pup_ro4=ro:/initrd/pup_ro5=ro)

Only done small tests - but it works - sort of moves sfs-mounting from boot-process to user space... Very Happy
In latest pUPnGO same approach can be used to mount GUI_412.sfs and glibc-2.6.1-1_412.sfs - no install, no wait for GUI/full glibc to after creating savefile and reboot.
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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Mon 20 Dec 2010, 13:01    Post subject:  

Created attached draft-script for dynamic load/unload sfs-files.
Load up to 28 sfs-files to main-root branch (number can be changed in script). Works by appending mounted sfs-files to aufs /. Also sfs-files loaded at boot can be unloaded at runtime if not used by any programs.
Tested in Puppy 412 and pUPnGO. Do not work in P431 but could be modified to do so (different squashfs/aufs-version I think). Works only with aufs (but same functionality could be made with unionfs using unionctl).
sfs-files must be outside current aufs branch. Unpack to a place in your $PATH (/usr/sbin or so)...
otf_sfs_loader.tar.gz
Description  otf_sfs_loader (On-The-Fly-sfs-loader) for P412 and pUPnGO
gz

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Filename  otf_sfs_loader.tar.gz 
Filesize  4.04 KB 
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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2376
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon 20 Dec 2010, 20:06    Post subject:  

I tested your OTF_SFS loader on pupppy 4.2

It loads up my goffice sfs (abiword, inkscape, sodipodi, gnumeric)

with no problems!! Very Happy

and its so fast... this is truly an excellent little tool..

a couple of questions:

1. can i use it at bootup to reload the sfs files which were still loaded at shutdown?

2. what cli commands (if any) can we use with it?

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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Tue 21 Dec 2010, 04:04    Post subject:  

sc0ttman: Thx for testing. For now the OFT is only a draft - it takes no arguments from CLI and do not remember settings at next boot. Should be "easy" to make a OTF-start-stop script in /etc/initrd using the commands needed to load/unload a list of sfs-files at boot/shutdown...
I am working on this as it will be a future part of pUPnGO to enable loading of sfs-files stored in boot CD at first boot and will replace the traditional sfs-manager.
My main goal is to make OTF-unionfs-manager to load/unload whatever you want: CD, networkdrives, other Linux, iso, sfs, tgz, etc. for pUPnGO as this expands the building block concept.
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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2376
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 21 Dec 2010, 10:57    Post subject:  

goingnuts wrote:
sc0ttman: Thx for testing. For now the OFT is only a draft - it takes no arguments from CLI and do not remember settings at next boot. Should be "easy" to make a OTF-start-stop script in /etc/initrd using the commands needed to load/unload a list of sfs-files at boot/shutdown...
I am working on this as it will be a future part of pUPnGO to enable loading of sfs-files stored in boot CD at first boot and will replace the traditional sfs-manager.
My main goal is to make OTF-unionfs-manager to load/unload whatever you want: CD, networkdrives, other Linux, iso, sfs, tgz, etc. for pUPnGO as this expands the building block concept.

Thanks for the reply, it's a great tool as it is..
I might try hacking it (until I break it) Smile

I will try to echo the list of mounted files to an rcfile, then read it again at boot, to mount them again..

I looked at how your script works, it should be simple enough, right?
You already echo the list of loaded sfs files to a tmp file, I think...

One problem I see - I will first need to mount the place on which the sfs are stored...

I may use the first half of the 'mount_all3' bash script by big_bass, to simply mount *everything* at boot..
This is not ideal at all, but it is an easy hack for myself...
(unless you can think of a better way...)

(I am not making feature requests, just thought I'd share my thoughts Smile )

I like ur idea on where its going, sounds interesting...

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emil

Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 618
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Tue 21 Dec 2010, 12:26    Post subject:  

Hi all here,

l just wanted to thank goingnuts for the great stuff he creates. I think the OFT could be base for some interesting improvements.

e.g. gyro had some ideas about Bootconfig
I could use the possibility to load one (or maybe more) additional sfs at first boot.

this is definitly on my watchlist!
emil
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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Tue 21 Dec 2010, 15:41    Post subject:  

sc0ttman: Thanks for your input and positive feedback! Attached the first working rc.otf_sfs. I successfully loaded 9 sfs-files - rebooted - and they were mounted and ready to go after startup. Still just a draft...
Just place it in /etc/init.d.

emil: Thanks! Very Happy Maybe you can make "fake" content of /etc/otfsfs and get those sfs loaded at first boot?
rc.otf_sfs.tar.gz
Description  rc.otf_sfs (script to save/load OTF-sfs-loaded files autom)
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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2376
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 21 Dec 2010, 19:57    Post subject:  

goingnuts wrote:
sc0ttman: Thanks for your input and positive feedback! Attached the first working rc.otf_sfs. I successfully loaded 9 sfs-files - rebooted - and they were mounted and ready to go after startup. Still just a draft...
Just place it in /etc/init.d

Thanks I'll check it out soon as I can...

One more question, about something else you did that I am very interested in.. PMConky..

I am using a 4.2 system without a ROX pinboard and I am already using JWM to set the wallpaper in jwmrc..

However, I can only see PMConky when I have no wallpaper set, and no colour set for the desktop.
But I see in this thread you have a wallpaper, with PMConky on top..

How did you do this? I even downloaded your cli jwm wallpaper changer, and started using a jwmrc-desktop file, to see if that worked... But no!

I would love to get PMconky working on top of my wallpaper.....
Any ideas?

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4351

PostPosted: Tue 21 Dec 2010, 22:02    Post subject:  

I'm not 100% sure what he did (if anything), but any time something like this happens you can add a group setting to change the layer (layer 1 or 2 should do it) for that program

http://joewing.net/programs/jwm/config.shtml#groups

it is also useful to have it force certain programs to always be on top so you don't miss a critical item (xmessage for instance)

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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2376
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed 22 Dec 2010, 12:07    Post subject:  

technosaurus wrote:
I'm not 100% sure what he did (if anything), but any time something like this happens you can add a group setting to change the layer (layer 1 or 2 should do it) for that program

http://joewing.net/programs/jwm/config.shtml#groups

it is also useful to have it force certain programs to always be on top so you don't miss a critical item (xmessage for instance)

Thanks for the info, I'll give it a go in a moment..

but won't that make it appear above the apps I load?

If you know, what layer are they set to by default?
( I guess I can go 1 lower...)

EDIT: OK, I guess it is '4', right click on a window title bar to see Embarassed

RE-EDIT:

Nope, won't work for me... Sad

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goingnuts

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Wed 22 Dec 2010, 12:40    Post subject:  

sc0ttman: Can you start (and view) pmconky.sh after jwm has started via rxvt? If so jwm has the <StartupCommand></StartupCommand> where you might put 'exec pmconky.sh'
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