Grub4DosConfig

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davesurrey
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#31 Post by davesurrey »

Frank
It's difficult to answer as I'm not sure what
It worked until I blew up windows
really means.
If your Windows OS is really damaged so badly that any attempt to recover it using the Windows CD is not feasable then obviously you will have to reinstall it. Windows will then take over the MBR that Ubuntu had been setup to use but it's a simple task to set up for grub to use the MBR again.

However if you mean that grub won't boot Windows anymore then that's a different issue.

If you explained more what error message you get etc we might be able to help but until then ...that's it. :-)

2. Unless you really want to get involved with grub2 then stick with grub-legacy at this stage.

3.
It is possible to reformat that first partition and reinstall xp or Karmic without creating a nightmare ? I was told to always install win first but that is not possible.
As above, if you install linux and then windows, then windows will take over the booting (and remember windows can't boot linux directly.) So windows first then linux is the prefered sequence because grub can boot windows and linux.

No idea what is on your first partition.

4.
Why do in need grub for frugal puppy installs? Just to save inserting the CD?
To boot any OS you need a boot loader. See my long post to nooby above. If you don't use grub or similar on your hard disk then you need to use a floppy or CD or usb stick, or whatever to boot Puppy. The Puppy CD can do this.

5.
And lastly did I understand grub for dos is included in Puppy 4XX and if so how do I access it?
No it isn't. Puppy 4xx to date uses grub-legacy. But I believe Barry is considering using grub4dos in the future.

HTH
Dave

nooby
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#32 Post by nooby »

Thanks,

so frugal install is better than loop mounted squash what ever?

UNetbootin allow frugal install and Puppy can do it too.

Slitaz if I remember have a kind of .iso install that is very close to frugal. you don't even have to open the iso and take out files? But that was one year ago and it could only save to usb not to the ntfs. They have changed this in later versions.

I had read the thing you quoted from Linux Mint too but fail to get why that is like they say. I just have to trust the expertese.

every linux distro should be made so it allow for frugal install on same hdd partition as the Vista or Win7. That is what I expect. But I am spoiled by Puppy.

Here is the menu.
default 0
timeout 10

title pup431jp
find --set-root /pup431jp/vmlinuz
kernel /pup431jp/vmlinuz psubdir=pup431jp
initrd /pup431jp/initrd.gz
boot

title macpup
find --set-root /macpup/vmlinuz
kernel /macpup/vmlinuz psubdir=macpup
initrd /macpup/initrd.gz
boot

title quirky005
find --set-root /quirky005/vmlinuz
kernel /quirky005/vmlinuz psubdir=quirky005
initrd /quirky005/initrd.gz
boot

title puppy431 (Puppeee431)
find --set-root /puppy431/vmlinuz
kernel /puppy431/vmlinuz
initrd /puppy431/initrd.gz
boot
all three pup431jp, macpup and quirky005 boots
while Puppeee431 says if fails to find the eee-431.sfs file.

I took down all the latest files from his repositry again and followed his description again very carefully and it still fails.

that I have no psubdir= for puppeee was suggested by the developer for it. As a test but that failed too.

So very suprising this happen.

I did put all the files on a USB stick and they worked right away.

Maybe the scrip think the eee-431.sfs should be on a usb? What file can I look in to see if that is the reason it fail to find it?
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nooby
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#33 Post by nooby »

double post it seems sorry
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shinobar
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Grub4Dos on puppy

#34 Post by shinobar »

davesurrey wrote:Puppy 4xx to date uses grub-legacy. But I believe Barry is considering using grub4dos in the future.
most of Puppy uses grub-legacy, yes.
Barry is now using Grub4Dos on Quirky.
And Puppy Linux 4.3.x Japanese editions are using Grub4Dos since last october 2009.

regarding dual boot of Windows and Linux, say Ubuntu, it is quite simple if your PC can boot up from CD.
  1. install Windows and Linux(es) in ANY order.
  2. boot up Puppy Linux 4.3.1JPqs0 from its live CD with 'on RAM only' mode.
  3. change the language to English.
  4. follow Menu > System > Grub4DosConfig
  5. the GUI will auto-detects Linux(es) you installed and adds menu for booting up windows.
well i have installed so many versions of puppy for testing...
the ubuntu(9.10) is installed via Wubi on the partition of windows 7.
Image

Puppy Linux 4.3.1JPsq0 is available from here .
Last edited by shinobar on Wed 27 Jan 2010, 14:57, edited 2 times in total.

nooby
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#35 Post by nooby »

Can it be use like this from USB too or only from CD/DVD?

And if I forgot to tell you. yes rebooting the jwm did change from Japanese to English. thanks.

Edit thanks I give feedback in some ten minutes.
Last edited by nooby on Wed 27 Jan 2010, 15:09, edited 1 time in total.
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shinobar
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#36 Post by shinobar »

nooby wrote:Can it be use like this from USB too or only from CD/DVD?
if you have installed 4.3.1JP on the USB, boot it up and follow Menu > System > Grub4DosConfig .

nooby
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#37 Post by nooby »

I am in your pup431JP but if I go there you directed me then in want to install.

I maybe not read you as you intended. I try again.

Edit

Aah sorry it was me so coward and afraid I checked a few boxes there.

Yes it did what you say.

so could not this help me boot linux Mint then.

If I put the iso of Min in its own folder and unzip the vmlinuz and initrd and then let the loader do the rest? Is that unrealistic maybe.

What could work? Do you have any clue on if it is possible?

thanks indeed for providing this version. If something happen to the boot of vista then this usb then can boot it up?
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shinobar
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#38 Post by shinobar »

nooby wrote:If I put the iso of Min
...
What could work?
Say, unetbootin installs some linux distributions from iso file.
but Grub4Dos is not an installer but a boot loader. the GUI generates the menu.lst for INSTALLED OS'es.
nooby wrote:If something happen to the boot of vista then this usb then can boot it up?
No.
Your usb is boot up from windows bootmgr. so windows(bootmgr) failes, your usb also fails.

One rescue is the 431JP(qs0) live CD.
Another is your usb if you install grub4dos on your usb.

nooby
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#39 Post by nooby »

So either a rescue CD or a rescue usb mem pin then.
Another is your usb if you install grub4dos on your usb.
Oh I wanted to install linux mint using the UNetbootin but that made that computer unable to use UNetbootin again because it locked itself out.

Very odd thing. A loop where it forever ask if if one want to uninstall it and never allow one to use it.

So I ran out of imagination on how to install a wubi or frugal version of Mint on that Vista computer.

Can pup431JP with Grub4Dos install a frugal version of Mint from the Mint.iso?

or can I do manually what UNetbootin try to do automatically following a script. I mean the guy that wrote it must have done it manually first?

TuxCantFly his username on some forums. He has not been active for long time now. Hope all is ok with him.
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davesurrey
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#40 Post by davesurrey »

nooby
that I have no psubdir= for puppeee was suggested by the developer for it. As a test but that failed too.
Either you need to add

Code: Select all

psubdir=puppy431
if the puppy files are all in a subdirectory called puppy431

or you must move the puppy files for puppeee431 to / rather than keep them in a subdirectory as well as changing grub to

Code: Select all

title puppy431 (Puppeee431) 
find --set-root /vmlinuz 
kernel /vmlinuz 
initrd /initrd.gz 
boot
every linux distro should be made so it allow for frugal install on same hdd partition as the Vista or Win7. That is what I expect
In which case you are going to be very unsatisfied in the future.

HTH
Dave

shinobar
Thanks for explaining that 431jp uses grub4dos. I guess this is the first. It does look like a very useful tool to have around.

Yes there are several ways of installing windows and ubuntu. I guess everyone has their own way they prefer. What I described here was just to help nooby in his specific requirements.

Cheers
Dave

nooby
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#41 Post by nooby »

Sadly that suggestion did not work.

But I trust what the developer told me. It could be one of the experiments for Ext 3 instead of a generic saving to all kinds of formats.

so he will take a look at how to make it work on ntfs and come back in the puppeee thread.

Re the mint I set up in frugal mode. It failed to save book marks.

so I need to find a solution to that one. And before it boots it looks through the whole HDD and that takes time. So if one could tell it to not do that.
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davesurrey
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#42 Post by davesurrey »

Sadly that suggestion did not work.

But I trust what the developer told me
By all means, but I can assure you that your grub code would never work as it stands.

Also I have just checked and puppeee won't boot for me if I install to a desktop but quirky 005 (which puppeee is based on) will boot so it seems the lack of drivers in puppeee (it is designed mainly for asus eee netbooks) is most likely the reason.
Re the mint I set up in frugal mode.
I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this. :roll:

nooby
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#43 Post by nooby »

davesurrey wrote:
Sadly that suggestion did not work.

But I trust what the developer told me
By all means, but I can assure you that your grub code would never work as it stands.

Also I have just checked and puppeee won't boot for me if I install to a desktop but quirky 005 (which puppeee is based on) will boot so it seems the lack of drivers in puppeee (it is designed mainly for asus eee netbooks) is most likely the reason.
Re the mint I set up in frugal mode.
I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this. :roll:
Depends on what you refer to here:

"I can assure you that your grub code would never work as it stands.
"

Well it does work. It is the saving that I have not implemented yet.

But the code as it is works very good.
By frugal I mean that the wmlinuz and the initrd are in a subdir and the pup-43.sfs is there too and the code tell the loader to search for them all over the HDD and this it do and find them and load them up and it just works. While if one tell them where to look then one have to know how to tell them and that I don't now yet. I am too much newbie to know if it is hda1 or sda1 or sata or ide or scsi or what?
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JustGreg
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#44 Post by JustGreg »

I have Shionbar's GUI for Grub4Dos. It does work. I tried the help button and found it connect to a web site with a Guide for Grub4Dos. The HTML files were available in a zip file. One downloads and places the zip file in a directory. My suggestion is /root/my-documents. Unzips the file by clicking on it in Rox File manager. This will bring up the xarchieve tool and by slecting all buton, files will be selected. Then click on the extract button. the files will be extracted. Checking the directory with the zip file, you should see a file Grub4Dos.htm and a directory named files. Click on Grub4Dos.htm to open the guide.

In Quirky006, which has Grub4Dos, there is only the bootlace.com file. The grldr file is not present. I did a frugal install of Puppy 4.3.1 to a Windows XP partition. One can use the grldr with the normal Windows XP boot manager to start Grub4Dos without changing the MBR. It work exacting like the Guide showed.
Enjoy life, Just Greg
Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much

nooby
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#45 Post by nooby »

Yes it works in WinXP. My AOpen which has XP is full of Linux. Puppy, Nimblex, Vector Soho, Slitaz, and many more.

But Windows Vista is a bit more complex. AFAIK there are still no step for step description on how to do manual frugal install of different linuxes in Vista or Win7.

so that is why I use EasyBCD that make use of NeoGrub which is based on Grub4Dos but just a variation. AFAIK it does the same thing.

I try to open the file in windows instead. That worked well.

I can understand why you recommend it. But is it really for Vista?
When I searched the biggest text document they only mention XP and older, they most likely did not have it implemented for Vista when they prepared that text.

I found this mention in one of the htm files
Attempting to install Windows Vista to (hd1) will result in the BCD store and other boot files being written to the active partition on (hd0).

To avoid this, temporarily remove (hd0) from the system (either disable the disk in the BIOS settings or physically remove it by disconnecting the IDE/SATA lead).

Make sure that the Vista disk is set as "Master" and install Windows Vista from the installation DVD.

When the Vista installation has completed, reconnect the first hard disk and set it as "master", and set the Vista disk as "slave".
But I am not to install Vista. that is the OS that the OEM already have on my computer and which need to be retained in it's precise state to keep warranty of the computer. I talked to the support of the Acer company here in Scandinavia and that is the rules. No resizing of HDD. No partition so I have to learn frugal install of all linuxes I want to test or to use USB or CD live install with persistent.
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tasmod
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#46 Post by tasmod »

Nooby,

Do a search for win32 installer or some such. I'm sorry my memory is not as good as it was.

I played with this for a while, it will allow you to do what you want.

Basically it converts Puppy or whatever, to an exe file for use by windows boot config. So I had Puppy as an exe that was offered during windows boot as a menu choice. Choosing it booted up Puppy, no MBR changes needed.

The package for creating was on here somewhere. Try hamsamben as a search, I posted one there too.
Rob
-
The moment after you press "Post" is the moment you actually see the typso 8)

nooby
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#47 Post by nooby »

You mean this thread
Puppy-Win32-Installer
by seeker he has it on his site for download. But does that work in Vista?
(I sent a PM to him asking if he knows if it is possible to change it so it can do both winXP and older and the newer ones like Vista and Win7? )

My gut feeling get confirmed by this text in the first post.

"Your Puppy will be installable on Windows 98, 2000, and XP.
"
He says this in one entry.

"Sure, I would like to add Vista support. To even begin to do this I would need the active cooperation of someone with a Vista OS.
Any volunteers? "

Sadly little later he has concluded this

"Thanks for the support and input. After spending a good deal of time researching this my inclination is to pass on Vista. Too many hurdles and pitfalls for me. "

One should read here
MikeB give this link
http://grub4dos.sourceforge.net/wiki/in ... ot_manager

http://208.109.22.214/puppy/viewtopic.p ... cfe095148c

that text would work for a pro but not for a newbie.

Even Seeker gave up on it.
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tasmod
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#48 Post by tasmod »

OK, just a thought.

Hmm Vista wasn't one of MS's best ideas.
Rob
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JustGreg
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#49 Post by JustGreg »

From the tutorial (I posted about on page 1 of this topic) on:
http://grub4dos.sourceforge.net/wiki/in ... gerBooting GRUB for DOS via the Windows Vista boot manager

Here at the steps:

Use bcdedit to configure the startup menu:
bcdedit /create /d "Start GRUB4DOS" /application bootsector
bcdedit /set {id} device boot
bcdedit /set {id} path \grldr.mbr
bcdedit /displayorder {id} /addlast

Then copy grldr.mbr to C:\, grldr and menu.lst to the root directory of any FAT16/FAT32/NTFS/EXT2 partition.

Based on my limited knowledge of Vista since I have not used it, this should not affect the mbr or the partition. If Vista does not use ntfs file system then there may be a problem. Once again, I do not know much about Vista nor does Microsoft want me to have knowledge. Nooby, if you do not know how to check the file system used by Vista then DO NOT USE THIS!

It uses the Windows Boot Manager of Vista like Windows XP to start Grub4dos (grldr). This process is the equivalent of chainloading under either Grub or Grub4dos. Once Grub4dos is started then it will use the file menu.lst (should be C:\ directory like grldr). The files needed for Puppy 4.3.1 should also be in C:\ directory

Here is my menu.lst that I know works (using a similar process) in Windows XP with Puppy 4.3.1:

# This is a sample menu.lst file. You should make some changes to it.
#color light-gray/blue black/light-gray
color light-gray/blue yellow/light-gray
# timeout 30
# default /default

title Puppy Frugal 4.3.1
find --set-root /pup-431.sfs
kernel /vmlinuz pmedia=atahd nosmp
initrd /initrd.gz

title Commandline
#savedefault --wait=2
commandline

title reboot
#savedefault --wait=2
reboot

title halt for manual reboot, Crtl-ATL-Del
#savedefault --wait=2
halt

Not having a Vista system nor at this time do I want one, I can not be sure
this will work perfectly with Vista. I hopes this helps.
Enjoy life, Just Greg
Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much

nooby
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#50 Post by nooby »

Yes thanks,

I have actually accomplish something now.

I write this from within Linux Mint and I have four modern versions of Puppy going in frugal install using EasyBCD and NeoGrub and I edit the menulist too using gedit or whatever.

Could you tell me what the
#savedefault
that you commentented out means? save default what? Why did you have to comment it out. what does it do?

What I have failed to do is the commands in menu.lst to tell Mint to save changes in frugal. Maybe the iso don't allow it. When I google I found one guy who told that the automatic log in is "live user" is preventing the saving of changes.

so I need to find somebody that can remaster the script or some cheat code that says Don't do the live user thing. Someone suggested one use single as a command. I tested this but corrupted the set up and had to start all over. But it has survived three reboots now and works real fast.

I certainly love puppy but there is something special about mint. :)

Why can not Mint use the Unionfs that puppy make use of doing puppy_save?
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