Needed Main Topic Organization Structure To This Section

[jabu2]

Please check what has been done /gone before, in this forum, from 2005 onwards and particularly in 2006 and 2008
- just use the Search function to find heaps on "additional software", repository functions and associated matters. You'll find many topics, lists, categorisations, dozens of thoughtful contributions on issues of form and function. These remain central issues for Puppy-we are all agreed on that.

Perhaps we shouldn't forget http://puppylinux.org and its place in the overall Puppy world?

Outside any actual Puppy software (ie the user's choice of Puppy variant, and its built-in package manager tool), Puppylinux.org is arguably the primary place for indices or listings (at least equal to the forum)?

If that is so, then efforts of bigpup and contributors to listings/indices should perhaps go to puppylinux.org ?

[bigpup]

Please check what has been done /gone before, in this forum, from 2005 onwards and particularly in 2006 and 2008
- just use the Search function to find heaps on "additional software", repository functions and associated matters. You'll find many topics, lists, categorisations, dozens of thoughtful contributions on issues of form and function. These remain central issues for Puppy-we are all agreed on that.

Perhaps we shouldn't forget http://puppylinux.org and its place in the overall Puppy world?

Outside any actual Puppy software (ie the user's choice of Puppy variant, and its built-in package manager tool), Puppylinux.org is arguably the primary place for indices or listings (at least equal to the forum)?

If that is so, then efforts of bigpup and contributors to listings/indices should perhaps go to puppylinux.org ?

So you are saying the forum section ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets n' Stuff) should just be a place to dump programs and find them by going threw page after page of posts, with no organization.

This is about one section of the forum, not all of Puppy Linux.
I refuse to just do nothing because something like this has been tried in the past.
Why am I using Puppy 4.3.1? Puppy 1.0 worked OK, so I do not need to try something new.

This idea works for me and others see some usefulness in it. Others are willing to help.
Are you?

[Pizzasgood]

2. You would get the post creep. As it gets older it will move page by page deeper into the subsection. This does not take long. I found some really good programs on page 25, 30, 40 etc. of ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets, N" Stuff)
My idea of MAIN TOPIC LISTS OF LINKS to PROGRAMS this creep does not happen.
A posted link stays where it is posted in the list of links.

I don't see how that's any different. It just means that instead of seeing the most recent stuff at the top, the oldest stuff will be at the "top" (beginning) and the newest stuff at the end.

Furthermore, when an older thread is replied to, it gets bumped, so that if it is still being used it has a better chance of staying nearer the top than stuff that is not used anymore. But with the indexed thread method they don't move.

Another benefit of subsections: When you search, you can specify the section or subsection to search within. So if you know the category of your query, the search can be more targeted. But you can't specify threads when searching, so you couldn't easily search through the indexes.

2.Are posts made to ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets, N' Stuff) ever removed? If the answer is NO, then this will never be an issue. The link will never be wrong unless the post it links to is removed.

Generally, they are not removed. But the links to the actual download may become broken over time, if a mirror goes down or a website moves. Of course, that can happen anyway, regardless of which method is used.

[bigpup]

Pizzasgood ,

Are we having fun yet. I am. I love a good back and forth discussion. Like I said before, I like your idea too.
If I understand, your idea is what is at the top when you go to ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets N' Stuff).

Drivers
Eye Candy
Games

how has this been working out?

My idea is 2 weeks old, it seems to be working and some people are helping.
I do not think anything is going to be 100%
Some of this seems to be just the way the forum works.
What we need is a company PUPPY LINUX and a building full of people.

Test:
Anybody
GO TO:
ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets N' Stuff)
INDEX ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE
SETUP
find a link about video drivers

NOW:
GO TO:
ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets N' Stuff)
At the top go to DRIVERS
find the same post as above

What do you think?

[Pizzasgood]

Sure, it's easy now while the index is empty. What about in a year from now? At that point if I want to find some specific item, I would have to manually look through many pages. Or, I could go to "Search" and specify which category of the forum to search in. I could set it to show excerpts of the posts that it matches as well.

Actually, I wouldn't use either method. I mostly don't use .pet packages. I just go track down the source and compile that. But I'm weird.

As for whether they've been working, it seems that way. I haven't heard any complaints about it anyway. There seem to be a lot of games in the games section, and plenty of eye candy in the eye candy section.

What does everybody think? Do we want to do it the indexed way or just make subsections (which I guess wouldn't prevent anybody from indexing anyway)?

Any reasons why I shouldn't add some subsections?

[Sylvander]

I have "Index of Additional Software" in my Firefox bookmarks...
So it was REALLY EASY [and quick] to navigate [from there] to "SETUP->Video Card Drivers".

I have it listed as "INDEX,of,Puppy,PET's", so I can find it by typing any one of those words in the "Search" window [index, or puppy, or pet?].

It was also easy to find using the "Puppy Google Search" listed in my bookmarks.

[tasmod]

As I see it at the moment this section is a mess.

I'm sure it wasn't his intention but now we have capitalised posts bouncing around like balls in the section.

New thread posts cause the posts to bounce up and down, this is more confusing than ever.

Bigpup's idea is sound but needs each 'section' as a sub forum with his index pointing to the link posts there.

That way the main section can stay as it is.

It's important that a post can be made to main section when a new piece of software is released, as the early users are the ones who give the most feedback. This allows fast changes to be made to the software without too much clutter.
It can be linked anyway in the sub forum post.

[Sylvander]

How about an index [or thread]...
Giving links...
To threads...
Each of which is on the topic of a newly released Puppy...
Or puplet/derivative.

Such that the most recently released Puppies would be located at the "recent" end of the thread.
It would therefore automatically be a kind of history of the initial release of each Puppy, and recent releases would be relatively easy to find.

Would[n't] it be good if the latest postings were added to the top/beginning of a thread rather than the bottom/end?
WOW! How radical is that?
A total reversal of the existing way of doing things.
I often go straight to the end of a thread [to get the latest]...
And read backwards toward the beginning [to step back in time, to see how the latest was got to].

How about a link in the INDEX thread [and each of the sub-threads?] to this discussion thread?
So that anyone who wants to make a point about any one of those can easily get here to make a posting.

[bigpup]

Sure, it's easy now while the index is empty. What about in a year from now? At that point if I want to find some specific item, I would have to manually look through many pages. Or, I could go to "Search" and specify which category of the forum to search in. I could set it to show excerpts of the posts that it matches as well.

What does everybody think? Do we want to do it the indexed way or just make subsections (which I guess wouldn't prevent anybody from indexing anyway)?

Any reasons why I shouldn't add some subsections?

I vote for make some more subsections.
That would force some organization of stuff. Hopefully people will then post to the subsection their program relates to.

The big question, how to get all this stuff into the new subsections?

Maybe that is all the organization needed?

I like the index of program links because each link has:
name of program
info statement about program

Maybe combine the two ideas.
subsections to put program posts in
(in each subsection)index of the programs

[Flash]

Moderators can easily move threads from one section of the forum to another, so it seems to me that adding a subsection for each main category of additional software would be the easiest thing for us moderators to deal with.

As I've found, the phpBB forum software is simply not meant to be used for such a thing as an index, so don't expect too much from it. Also, and I've said this too, or at least words to the effect, a self-organizing index or forum is an impossible dream. If it's to be much use at all, someone will have to take on the herculean job of maintaining it. That is, they will have to note every new dotpet posted to the Additional Software section, and start a thread for it in the subsection where it belongs.

Searching the forum doesn't seem to work well because threads, posts, dotpets, etc., aren't written or named with searching for them in mind. It would be nice if we had a template that everyone would follow for posting dotpets and the like to the Additional Software forum.

[bigpup]

Moderators can easily move threads from one section of the forum to another, so it seems to me that adding a subsection for each main category of additional software would be the easiest thing for us moderators to deal with.

I say yes to main category subsections.

Searching the forum doesn't seem to work well because threads, posts, dotpets, etc., aren't written or named with searching for them in mind. It would be nice if we had a template that everyone would follow for posting dotpets and the like to the Additional Software forum. Laughing

I think a template that everyone would follow for posting dotpets, is definitely needed.

New project anyone?

Speak up tell what you think.

[bigpup]

Flash Wrote:

a self-organizing index or forum is an impossible dream. If it's to be much use at all, someone will have to take on the herculean job of maintaining it. That is, they will have to note every new dotpet posted to the Additional Software section, and start a thread for it in the subsection where it belongs.

If ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets, N' Stuff) is changed to this, it should force people to organize.

ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE (Pets N' Stuff)-just a main section tittle.

SUBSECTIONS
Internet
Graphics
Drivers
Multimedia
Utility
System
Setup
Filesystem
Document
Business
Network
Games
Eye Candy

If it is made so the ONLY PLACE you can post is in the subsections:
It would organize program posts
It would be self-organizing

Seems to be working for drivers, games, and eye candy.

What Do You Think?

[drongo]

It is hard to find stuff on the Forum, especially if "I want an app that does this sort of thing" is the thing being searched for. I don't know the names of all of the graphics manipulation programs around for instance but I know there are a number of useful pets on here which I occasionally stumble across when a developer upgrades to the latest version.

I think the problem is more fundamental than that though. This forum goes back to very early Puppy releases. Many pets and pups on here probably won't work at all with the latest and greatest Puppy because of dependency problems.

Before we start tinkering with pet categories perhaps now might be a time to think about completely new sections for Puppy 4, Puppy 5, DPup, Upup, Quirky, Woof and derivative Pups. After that is sorted you need categories for software tested for those individual Puppies. Some people still run 1.0.9CE and 2 series pups because of hardware constraints.

Probably needs some well-thought out tinkering not just minor changes.

[Sylvander]

I was browsing through the categories listed in the main index...
And found PET's I didn't know existed.

Also found a dead link when I tried to download a dependency for a Genealogy program recently added.

Will look for that and post a link here when I have time.

[Pizzasgood]

@drongo: That's something I've considered. The problem is that you wind up with a lot of different similar spaces, which is pretty annoying to deal with (both for moderators and due to all the clicks you have to use to reach the target area). And we aren't really a package repository. The way I see it, a set of subsections for each category is about the limit of what we can do before stuff gets ugly. That should be enough to last until Puppy gets around to adopting a normal repo.

Bigpup's list looks like it covers everything, but I'll hold off on creating them for a bit to see if anybody has any thoughts regarding them. Anything missing? Anything too vague/redundant? (Keeping in mind we can add a short description beneath them...)

[8-bit]

The program description is very important for the linux newbe.
Trying to figure out what a program is for from just it's filename does not work.
And that even goes for regular linux users.

So a user looking for a program that does what they want will not be at a loss.

ALSO. A program that is written for a specific Puppy version series should so specify.

Even after a number of years of using Puppy, I still cannot tell you even what some of the programs included in Puppy are for and what they do.

[SouthPaws]

In agreement with drongo; the time has come for deep thought...(hmmm...sounds familiar).

I suggest:

1. mention the compatible kernel to the package at hand

2. add another section labeled ISO's where we can centralize/find links
to every iso/derivative (a sticky at the top of the derivatives section
would suffice)

[bigpup]

The program description is very important for the linux newbe.
Trying to figure out what a program is for from just it's filename does not work.
And that even goes for regular linux users.

So a user looking for a program that does what they want will not be at a loss.

ALSO. A program that is written for a specific Puppy version series should so specify.

Even after a number of years of using Puppy, I still cannot tell you even what some of the programs included in Puppy are for and what they do.

This shows we need a change to the posting template. I very much agree for the same reasons. I think the above statement spells out how it needs to change.
I f you click on New Topic or Post a Reply, the input page comes up. It should have the following to fill-out or choose-
Example:

POST A REPLY or NEW TOPIC

Name (for program post)
Subject (for comment post)
Subject Description
Program description
File name (if program)
Message icons
Message body
Options

This adds 3 new entries:
Name (for program post)
Program description
File name (if program)

Moderators and others what do you think?

[Flash]

... Any reasons why I shouldn't add some subsections?

Go for it, man.

[Sylvander]

Regarding the previously mentioned missing dependency:
See HERE at this link for the Python-2.5.2-i686.pet file.

What's to be done about such dead links?