Quirky 018 feedback

[Sage]

OK - I don't get it. GRUB4DOS. I am a mere user with lots of calls upon my time. I am NOT an IT person, just a user. I am not stupid; I am well qualified in an entirely different profession. As far as PC s are concerned, I do HW, not SW. The introduction of NEW GRUB in the Linux world instead of the old 0.9.2 workhorse is yet another example of the academic smart *sses talking amongst themselves, again, as far as I am concerned. I speak as an ex-academic - I know the breed well. OLD GRUB works for me. Now we get GRUB4DOS in Quirky, a compact distro. I don't need it, I don't want it and I certainly don't want the hassle when OLD GRUB worked, and still works off 4.3.1, for me. Please don't waste my valuable time unnecessarily. I know you have to do this, do that, do the other to get NEW GRUB installed; it's a retrograde step to ask users to jump through additionalhoops that weren't there a few weeks ago. You got it right first time.
Strike a blow for freedom and choice. Let's have OLD GRUB as an option to satisfy everyone - perhaps even a LILO option. It's nice to have all the latest gizmos available but there's a good case to make for not burdening followers with new tricks to learn every time the industry moves on - that's why some distro maintain Enterprise Editions. Not a dinosaur, I love progress, but I also like to get results in double quick time.
Spoken for all those too timid to express an honest opinion.
Not a criticism, per se, of any one individual, just a point of view. Opinions and dissent should strengthen the breed without folks taking umbrage when it doesn't concord with their approach.

To solve the present impasse, I am using OLD GRUB from 4.3.1; just takes twice as long to boot up a second disc. So those who can't agree with me, don't say I don't provide answers as well as questions.

[tlchost]

I am a mere user with lots of calls upon my time. I am NOT an IT person, just a user.

There are a few threads in the forum where developers go out of their way to chastise users for requesting features and/or bug fixes. The art of development must not be sullied by users.

To lower my frustration level, I look at many things as an experiment, designed for that purpose, rather than working out of the box, and/or being a practical tool. Lowered Expectations seem to produce Lowered Frustrations.

Thom

[Sage]

Agreed. I was entirely happy with OLD GRUB. I had no greater expectations. It's time I am short of.

[nooby]

Sage,

as users we can only suggest how we would like it to be.

Developers do what they prefer in the end.

Sage, I think it is much worse than you write. Grub2 is the in thing on the major distos so most likely Puppy need to live up to be able to use Grub2 too.

I guess there will always exists people who keep the older puppies alive so no worry but the latest versions of Puppy will most likely be updated to some of the new trends in linux development and Grub2 seems to be that trend.

I don't like it either but we have to deal with it if we want to be dual booting with Ubuntu 10.04 and such?

[rcrsn51]

The issue with GRUB4DOS in Quirky is not whether it's better or worse or necessary. It's the lack of documentation.

Actually, GRUB4DOS is easier to install than legacy GRUB 0.9.7. Someone just needs to ask how.

[Billtoo]

On the other hand, going the other way, here is the very latest Ati driver (April 5, 2010).

Leon, try this also...

I downloaded Wary 020 and when choosing probe and 1920X1080 I get 1280X1024.
After downloading xf86-video-ati-radeon_mach64_r128-6.12.7-w1.pet and installing it and running the xorg video wizard again I chose 1920X1080 (from probe) and that's what I got, the correct resolution.

The computer is a few months old and the built in graphics is a
"01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon HD 3200 Graphics"

[broomdodger]

wary020 gnumeric problem

wary020 frugal

Clicking "calc" icon -- nothing

In console:

What is the message "unary operator expected" when opening console?

bash: [: -ge: unary operator expected
# which gnumeric
/usr/bin/gnumeric
# gnumeric
gnumeric: error while loading shared libraries: libgoffice-0.6.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
# cd /
# find . -iname *libgoffice*
./usr/lib/libgoffice-0.6.la
./usr/lib/pkgconfig/libgoffice-0.6.pc
./usr/include/libgoffice-0.6
./initrd/pup_ro2/usr/include/libgoffice-0.6
./initrd/pup_ro2/usr/lib/libgoffice-0.6.la
./initrd/pup_ro2/usr/lib/pkgconfig/libgoffice-0.6.pc

Anyone else see this problem?

[JustGreg]

I can not understand why the outcry over Grub4Dos. It is very much like Grub. It will use an existing Grub configuration file with out a problem. It is well documented. I am surprised that it is such a unknown. Several people took the time to explain "how to use" Grub4Dos to one of the people commenting on it. There are multiple posts on the forum.

If you are going to make changes to the Master Boot Record with any boot loader, it is recommended that one makes a copy using dd (by console terminal) before you make the change. This way, one can restore the storage device to its original state. I have seen and corrected Grub installations that have gone wrong. I have found using the "JustGreg" mbr (part of Puppy Installation tool) usually gets one to the point where you can get the system up.

Attached is a HTML file (in zip format) with the best Grub4Dos information for everyone's use. Please read it.. It covers most cases of installing Grub4Dos, except for Windows 7. New things do not work like old ones. Every new solution brings its own set of problems.

[upnorth]

@broomdodger Yes

also: in vt1
-sh [: -ge: unary operator expected

copied in libgoffice-0.6.so.6 symlink and libgoffice-0.6.so.6.0.3 from 431 and it then opens but dissappears when format cells is selected.

[BarryK]

Wary 020 is released and has its own thread for feedback:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=54728

[Sage]

Many folks will thank JustGreg for his download. Unfortunately, it doesn't address the issues I raised unless his instructions include plans for a time machine! G4D isn't necessary, muddies the water and consumes the one commodity that many don't have. I took the baseline that everyone on this Forum can read and knew that the issue had been extensively discussed with the necessary assistance provided.

[JustGreg]

Quirky has been an experiment release to find out what works and what has problems. If you are installing on systems that need to be used everyday, you are asking for problems, especially if the end user does not have a lot of experience (e.g. a simple user).

Grub4Dos is the result of the legacy Grub being no longer developed. The code is old and may not work on new systems and can cause problems. Someone has taken the effort to provide a new approach. They are doing it for free.

If you are going to work on computer systems, which are a collection of hardware and software, you need to be familiar with both. As far as I know software by itself is as useless as having only hardware. Although, with hardware only, you can warm your hands with the waste heat if the power is on

People who do not like the direction Puppy is going, can generate their own distribution. The Woof project/process allows one to do that. You can tune it to your desires and wishes. But, do not be surprised that some user feels they have better way of doing things.

If you do not want to do a distribution then make a script that will do a Puppy installation using Grub as the boot loader. You can make a Pet and allow people to select which boot loader they want to use.

[rjbrewer]

Sage is right!

The greatest thing about Puppy when I first started using it,
was the way a full install would automatically install Grub to a drive.

Grub4dos makes that impossible afaik. A royal pain.

Having g4d as an option would be okay;
keep .97 as default.

Edit:

Grub4dos can be used in basically the same way; just not on
an ext4 partition.

[nooby]

unusual graphic error in q013 have not tested in q018 though. some of the chars are fuzzy instead of sharp


take this text.

I did as you say but typical of me to not get what you actually did say.

I misunderstood this part.

I make bold those chars that is most affected by the error in the example picture

[upnorth]

Hi Nooby: you can try this:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... e67#409210

What version of firefox is that in your screenshot? I've never seen that happen in the Moz-based browsers - only in dillo and opera. Also in the gtk-moz browser only if more than one instance is open.

The "wary" version has this code also in local.conf, to test you only need to remove the <!-- and --> surrounding it.

[rcrsn51]

Or go into Edit > Preferences > Content and try a different Default Font.

[nooby]

thanks upnorth , ah so that was about that error. I had no idea. Have read about it many times but did not know what it referred to. Thanks I am in no hurry to repair it.

I use latest Firefox 3.6.3

[shinobar]

The greatest thing about Puppy when I first started using it,
was the way a full install would automatically install Grub to a drive.

Yes the old puppies automatically installed legacy grub.
But NOT with the frugal install.
'Grub4Dos config' on new quirky automatically installs Grub4Dos both for full and frugal install.

Legacy grub requires linux partitions(ext2/3 and etc.) and cannot apply on PC's with only windows partitions(ntfs or fat) unless reforming the drive.

Think Grub4Dos is universal and for most of fork including begginers.
Legacy grub is for some fork who insist on the antique way of linuxes.
Don't be afraid. As JustGreg already said, Grub4Dos is upper compatible with legacy grub and can read the menu.lst of legacy grub.

Tell me what case legacy grub can do and Grub4Dos cannot, or what is the problem?

Only one case Grub4Dos makes a trouble is the case the first partition is ext4. It supports ext4 in general but for the first partition. One of the solution is to make a small partition which is formated with etx2 or ext3 (ntfs/vfat also ok).

[tlchost]

Many folks will thank JustGreg for his download. Unfortunately, it doesn't address the issues I raised unless his instructions include plans for a time machine!

Perhaps it would be best to simply not venture into the land of oozing edge stuff.

431 seemed to work, but apparently it too was an unfinished work, since there was activity to release an official 432 version....but that's not yet completed.

The key might be to find a version that gives most of what you want with the minimal amount of stuff that's missing and/or broken.

Thom
Lowered expectations may lead to lower frustration

[rjbrewer]

The greatest thing about Puppy when I first started using it,
was the way a full install would automatically install Grub to a drive.

Yes the old puppies automatically installed legacy grub.
But NOT with the frugal install.
'Grub4Dos config' on new quirky automatically installs Grub4Dos both for full and frugal install.

Legacy grub requires linux partitions(ext2/3 and etc.) and cannot apply on PC's with only windows partitions(ntfs or fat) unless reforming the drive.

Think Grub4Dos is universal and for most of fork including begginers.
Legacy grub is for some fork who insist on the antique way of linuxes.
Don't be afraid. As JustGreg already said, Grub4Dos is upper compatible with legacy grub and can read the menu.lst of legacy grub.

Tell me what case legacy grub can do and Grub4Dos cannot, or what is the problem?

Only one case Grub4Dos makes a trouble is the case the first partition is ext4. It supports ext4 in general but for the first partition. One of the solution is to make a small partition which is formated with etx2 or ext3 (ntfs/vfat also ok).

"Don't be afraid" ??
What the hell does "fear" have to do with it?

"There's nothing to fear but fear itself"'
.............(and spiders) (and possibly Grub2)

Legacy Grub is not "Antique"!!
Even Lilo would just be considered "Classic".

I've always used Grub on its' own partition since starting with
Linux; and I'm not opposed to Grub4dos; I've used both.

Just want the option of choosing.