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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Mon 24 May 2010, 02:17    Post subject:  

Development meeting
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/meeting30May2010/

Forum thread
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=421098#421098

Agenda

Meets and greets
Reports from active Puppys
Developer Discussion
Any other business
Set next meeting
Close and thanks

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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5446
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Mon 24 May 2010, 03:01    Post subject:  

01micko wrote:


Man, we commend the work you've done around here, plenty of it Wink . Why don't you follow woof? You can of course as you know, build a Tpup, all native Puppy, weighing in at around 100MB. Without ridiculous Gnome dependencies. Smile . I'm not too sure Barry is interested in his "Very Wary " effort, using the 2.6.30.5 kernel from 431 and Xorg 7.3.

Cheers


I just happened to be running Ttuuxxx's Tpup 001 tonight.Still have it installed on my test box and other than Abiword not wanting to play nicely it would be a pretty solid starting point.Other than the 2.3.31.5 kernel it's pretty much "regular" Puppy. Smile

There are lots of interesting possibilities in the ever-expanding Puppy universe. Laughing
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7547
Location: qld

PostPosted: Mon 24 May 2010, 05:55    Post subject:  

Quote:
I'm not too sure Barry is interested in his "Very Wary " effort, using the 2.6.30.5 kernel from 431 and Xorg 7.3.


Um, I should re-phrase that. I meant that IMO Barry is doing very-wary as more of an afterthought for those with older gear. We all know his main focus is Quirky.

There, that's better!

Cheers

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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Mon 24 May 2010, 09:40    Post subject:  

01micko wrote:

What we need is more developers... are we going to attract them without a bone?


What definitely won't attract new developers is infighting within the community. It seems rather unlikely that we can get everybody together and all agree on a single vision for Puppy. And that's ok - having multiple puplets that implement different ideas is better than one compromise-puplet that doesn't do anything particularly well.

What attracted me to Puppy is the open, collaborative, community where I get to do my own thing and follow my own ideas. If I had to implement other people's ideas, I'd quickly get bored and leave.

The idea that some puplets are "official" and some are not seems like it's going to cause problems. Perhaps there's a better way to denote puplet quality and level of support that's not guaranteed to alienate people.
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10730
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Mon 24 May 2010, 10:14    Post subject:  

jemimah wrote:


What definitely won't attract new developers is infighting within the community. It seems rather unlikely that we can get everybody together and all agree on a single vision for Puppy.


The Community editions went pretty good, only a couple of fights, but the end results were excellent.
All we need to do is have a rough outline what the release goals are, etc and start there, maybe even have Barry lend a hand if we get stuck along the way, I'm talking about 100% from scratch. To my knowledge Barry is the only one ever to do it that way, well of course we'll reuse the puppy scripts etc, but all the apps/libs etc should be compiled.
ttuuxxx

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dejan555


Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 2593
Location: Montenegro

PostPosted: Mon 24 May 2010, 10:38    Post subject:  

Yay pupians on IRC Razz

Well, since there are now many ways to build puppy and Barry started naming projects differently as he did with Quirky maybe we should have official "puppy linux" versions to be "puppy puppy" builds meaning building puppy from own packages and have other upup/dpup/whatever builds as separate projects and not jumping from repo to repo on every different release. That way we're not making progress because of simple reason that is confirmed with 5.0 - different base causes different hardware support and different bugs.

And the reason we're doing it is we simply don't have enough packages in puppy's own repo and they don't get updated and recompiled to match newer kernels and software versions. I mean look - pidgin 2.4 is still in official repo that doesn't work for anyone most of the people joining IRC for support first ask about pidgin not working with their MSN accounts and ayttm crashing on MSN too Rolling Eyes

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shariebeth

Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 271
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon 24 May 2010, 10:57    Post subject:  

jemimah wrote:
What definitely won't attract new developers is infighting within the community.
Agreed.
Quote:
It seems rather unlikely that we can get everybody together and all agree on a single vision for Puppy. And that's ok - having multiple puplets that implement different ideas is better than one compromise-puplet that doesn't do anything particularly well.
Agreed again.

Quote:
What attracted me to Puppy is the open, collaborative, community where I get to do my own thing and follow my own ideas. If I had to implement other people's ideas, I'd quickly get bored and leave.
Nobody wants you to do either. There is a difference between organizing and making sure all of the needs of puppy users are met, than trying to force you to do what you don't want to do.

Quote:
The idea that some puplets are "official" and some are not seems like it's going to cause problems. Perhaps there's a better way to denote puplet quality and level of support that's not guaranteed to alienate people
This is EXACTLY what is needed!


Lobster wrote:
Ttuuxxx I am happy to report that the IRC (click on desktop chat)
is now capable of supporting meetings after its recent expulsion
of those suffering from voluntary tourette syndrome
The most you might find is a lost troll
or crazy cructacean . . .

Maybe something can be arranged in a few weeks time Smile

*sighs* You still don't get it, do you. Confused



Are concerned Puppy citizens welcome/allowed to this meeting? Or just selectively so? I for one am thrilled to see this, not that most of you care Wink
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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Mon 24 May 2010, 11:27    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx wrote:

The Community editions went pretty good, only a couple of fights, but the end results were excellent.
All we need to do is have a rough outline what the release goals are, etc and start there, maybe even have Barry lend a hand if we get stuck along the way, I'm talking about 100% from scratch. To my knowledge Barry is the only one ever to do it that way, well of course we'll reuse the puppy scripts etc, but all the apps/libs etc should be compiled.
ttuuxxx


I admit, part of the appeal of Puppy for me is the handcrafted, built from scratch concept, and woof is huge step away from that. My guess is though - that trying to do community edition skipping woof entirely could be extremely divisive. Maybe not.

Personally though, the project sounds fun to me, and I'd like to help.

I wonder if it would take too long though - if we can't generate good momentum soon enough or fast enough it's difficult to keep things moving.
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big_bass

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Mon 24 May 2010, 13:05    Post subject:  

I think most will agree that there is a need for teamwork

most of the troubles though are due to "trying to be the one to rule the planet and not just being yourself "


seeing strengths in other people is a good thing
while some people see it as threat

knowing where you shine and other people shine
create overlapping skills that complement each other

mostly the drive you have dictates what you have interest in

if you have interest in art work desktops icons themes and such thats your strong point
not saying that you can't do other things you will
only be happy doing what your good at though
that's just my thoughts on that not a rule

and this same idea goes for programmers ,techs,etc...


when you focus on what you are good at
good things follow


new friendships are made old friendships are healed

life continues happily on its way

Joe

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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Mon 24 May 2010, 15:25    Post subject:  

Guys
there will be a meetings on Sunday on the open chat forum
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/meeting30May2010

Everyone is welcome,
though our primary interest is providing a meeting
for developer exchange.

If need be (Ttuuxxx has expressed an interest)
private chats just for developers can be arranged
though that can easily happen through pm, email,
Barrys blog, Jemimahs Puppee forum and so on

Suggested 'Reports from active Puppys'
can take the form of a brief intro
and Q & A
on for example
Puppy 5, 5.1, Slaxer_Pup, Quirky, Puplet creators
. . . depends who turns up

Cool

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Last edited by Lobster on Wed 26 May 2010, 01:16; edited 1 time in total
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tubeguy


Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 1321
Location: Park Ridge IL USA

PostPosted: Mon 24 May 2010, 16:30    Post subject:  

Lobster wrote:
Everyone is welcome,
though our primary interest is providing a meeting
for developer exchange.

Looking forward to lurking. I'm no dev but I'm a good fly on the wall. Wink

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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 997
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Tue 25 May 2010, 20:32    Post subject: Puppy 6 proposal  

I hope to "attend" if I may.

I'd also like to expand and put my idea forward again that it's time the puppy system grew up and had two component stages.

Puppy 6 may be that time!

The first stage is the core, that part of puppy that should be a "bare-bones of bare-bones". Consisting of the system and basic utilities only, covered under the menu as filesystem, utility, and above, but not including any applications other than a tiny (basic non-invasive) browser. It should be java aware by default. All configuration components should be working towards being interfaced via the browser, then many help directions and messages can be available. I believe there is even a text type browser out there somewhere, that can be used for the pre-x stages.

The second stage consists of applications and packages of applications. The only requirement is that they must be inclusive. In other words, would have no component that is reliant on another package or set of packages. I would only put a restriction on this group of a requirement of having an individual .pet for each application in their .sts package set. This is so those that only want one application can have access to it.

I think you would find that many groups would willing to work to this matrix, as they wouldn't have to supply the core level part, only what is required to meet their version.

i'll add more later (washing for the line calls Smile )

scsijon
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Jim1911

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 2445
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Tue 25 May 2010, 21:17    Post subject: Re: Puppy 6 proposal  

scsijon wrote:
The first stage is the core, that part of puppy that should be a "bare-bones of bare-bones". Consisting of the system and basic utilities only, covered under the menu as filesystem, utility, and above, but not including any applications other than a tiny (basic non-invasive) browser. It should be java aware by default. All configuration components should be working towards being interfaced via the browser, then many help directions and messages can be available. I believe there is even a text type browser out there somewhere, that can be used for the pre-x stages.
Barry's woof is already the core. From there, the possibilities are endless.
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shariebeth

Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 271
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue 25 May 2010, 21:38    Post subject: Re: Puppy 6 proposal  

scsijon wrote:
I hope to "attend" if I may.

I'd also like to expand and put my idea forward again that it's time the puppy system grew up and had two component stages.

Puppy 6 may be that time!

The first stage is the core, that part of puppy that should be a "bare-bones of bare-bones". Consisting of the system and basic utilities only, covered under the menu as filesystem, utility, and above, but not including any applications other than a tiny (basic non-invasive) browser. It should be java aware by default. All configuration components should be working towards being interfaced via the browser, then many help directions and messages can be available. I believe there is even a text type browser out there somewhere, that can be used for the pre-x stages.

The second stage consists of applications and packages of applications. The only requirement is that they must be inclusive. In other words, would have no component that is reliant on another package or set of packages. I would only put a restriction on this group of a requirement of having an individual .pet for each application in their .sts package set. This is so those that only want one application can have access to it.

I think you would find that many groups would willing to work to this matrix, as they wouldn't have to supply the core level part, only what is required to meet their version.

i'll add more later (washing for the line calls Smile )

scsijon

Ehhhm sounds like Arch Linux Wink
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 997
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Wed 26 May 2010, 03:45    Post subject:  

Arch Linux?

will have a look at it, i'm ex-suse myself

scsijon
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