Quirky 1.2rc feedback
- Abnormalter
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Sun 31 Jan 2010, 10:56
- Location: Russia
Common mind about problems of it
Oh! It's duplicated post!
Last edited by Abnormalter on Thu 03 Jun 2010, 18:07, edited 1 time in total.
- Abnormalter
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Sun 31 Jan 2010, 10:56
- Location: Russia
Common mind about problems of it
Hello, dear Barry! Hello, people!
Thanks for your Puppy releases developing.
Alas, my new test for this release robbed me of hope and confidence to fate of the Puppy now...
And excuse me generously for this unpleasant truth.
I have an informed opinion based on my experience of two decades in the IT practice and my long life; in general, that this sad event occurs as phenomenon that has long been familiar to an older generation of people who dedicate their lives to engineering practice. Many things has been fixed... but, in alas, the current generation of IT "successfully" forgotten them, including those expressed in the famous Parkinson's and Murphy's Law/Rules...
But I have no intention here to argue for a long time on this topic, especially with the even generally and as philosophical reasons. However, I allow myself to simply highlight here my two or three points...
It's main components, which must be led to provides it as "unexpected" result of the development project, which is not too happy and do not inspire hope...
One reason is difficult to unjustified balanced judgments of the use to the Puppy' release this newest OS kernel, which has fully not sufficient testing practices, and who is passed not on the kernel developers from any bugs. Includes errors with drivers communicative problems. Any problems, which is more than eloquent was be confirmed of the monthly beta testing for Lupu 5.0x.
It's life truth after applied the kernel developers is identification of the release as 2.6.33.2 (Note to the last digit!)
Note. An oldest programming practice and impartial monitoring of the set of specialists on the Programmer's World, clearly shown fact: every software product and operating system and components like kernel, which in its minor digit not gone far from zero, they release of the software it's are potentially relevant not stable. This is fact of life.
These mind would seem that this is a fairly well-known fact, but the stupid fact and unthinking adherence the "Zeitgeist", and reckless aspirations of young people in the project to all "newest" develop -- on the external form only, not on facts, not on the merits... and this is precisely unjustified passes of wisdom aspirations must be lead to the similar occurring now. And it's main cause of.
But programmers forgotten now many of this basic things...
Meanwhile, the developers of the project Ubuntu Lucid 10.04 LTS can be develop it very much wiser and weighted. They used quite a stable kernel, since passed true debugging process, with the number of this kernel is 2.6.32.20/22. And this fact eloquently shows the reasons for the success of this release. And the Ubuntu uses people not noticed any bugs and incompatibilities with the equipment of most PCs under current and stable the Ubuntu release.
Alas, this can not boast a team of Lucid Puppy 5...
The second important cause of numerous OS' errors and hardware bugs in this project is desire of the developers to apply for this newest release too many innovations at one time. This is bad developers mind and very bad practice!
Many developers, who have great experience, those people, who is know and understand this reasons, known the fact: disproportionate amount of changes made in the current project immediately and without progressive experimental testing process, they developers lead to an avalanche of bugs and provides to many programming mistakes! And it's poor way to condemn the developers for painful and unproductive process of debugging it.
Both users and beta testers too, they get frustrate for it; they have reasonable causes to confusion in the process of probing this newest releases.
This is true, because it's so many bugs and abnormal behavior of user PCs has this Puppy' release...
And it's I says as last reason. It is prefer if the Puppy' projects would be divided (on a fork, but as common subprojects) to successfully processed studies of many directions to development of the newest Puppy. (It would seem that it was done...)
The first program line and first way is development of direction to maximum usability the OS for most attractive destination users, for so-called "end users"; they prefer it for any OSs. And as second way is improvement to provide and evolution the maintainer's technology, including technology to provide for simply building any software packages.
The second way and task is direction by Barry and that is very successfully develops himself by Barry.
But the first direction way on the community Puppy is now essentially natural chaos... What is not good, IMHO...
I wish many for the people participating in the project, and Barry personally, and many every success! And especially -- lot of courage and patience to overcome the failures of this way.
P.S. Excuse me for my poor English.
Thanks for your Puppy releases developing.
Alas, my new test for this release robbed me of hope and confidence to fate of the Puppy now...
And excuse me generously for this unpleasant truth.
I have an informed opinion based on my experience of two decades in the IT practice and my long life; in general, that this sad event occurs as phenomenon that has long been familiar to an older generation of people who dedicate their lives to engineering practice. Many things has been fixed... but, in alas, the current generation of IT "successfully" forgotten them, including those expressed in the famous Parkinson's and Murphy's Law/Rules...
But I have no intention here to argue for a long time on this topic, especially with the even generally and as philosophical reasons. However, I allow myself to simply highlight here my two or three points...
It's main components, which must be led to provides it as "unexpected" result of the development project, which is not too happy and do not inspire hope...
One reason is difficult to unjustified balanced judgments of the use to the Puppy' release this newest OS kernel, which has fully not sufficient testing practices, and who is passed not on the kernel developers from any bugs. Includes errors with drivers communicative problems. Any problems, which is more than eloquent was be confirmed of the monthly beta testing for Lupu 5.0x.
It's life truth after applied the kernel developers is identification of the release as 2.6.33.2 (Note to the last digit!)
Note. An oldest programming practice and impartial monitoring of the set of specialists on the Programmer's World, clearly shown fact: every software product and operating system and components like kernel, which in its minor digit not gone far from zero, they release of the software it's are potentially relevant not stable. This is fact of life.
These mind would seem that this is a fairly well-known fact, but the stupid fact and unthinking adherence the "Zeitgeist", and reckless aspirations of young people in the project to all "newest" develop -- on the external form only, not on facts, not on the merits... and this is precisely unjustified passes of wisdom aspirations must be lead to the similar occurring now. And it's main cause of.
But programmers forgotten now many of this basic things...
Meanwhile, the developers of the project Ubuntu Lucid 10.04 LTS can be develop it very much wiser and weighted. They used quite a stable kernel, since passed true debugging process, with the number of this kernel is 2.6.32.20/22. And this fact eloquently shows the reasons for the success of this release. And the Ubuntu uses people not noticed any bugs and incompatibilities with the equipment of most PCs under current and stable the Ubuntu release.
Alas, this can not boast a team of Lucid Puppy 5...
The second important cause of numerous OS' errors and hardware bugs in this project is desire of the developers to apply for this newest release too many innovations at one time. This is bad developers mind and very bad practice!
Many developers, who have great experience, those people, who is know and understand this reasons, known the fact: disproportionate amount of changes made in the current project immediately and without progressive experimental testing process, they developers lead to an avalanche of bugs and provides to many programming mistakes! And it's poor way to condemn the developers for painful and unproductive process of debugging it.
Both users and beta testers too, they get frustrate for it; they have reasonable causes to confusion in the process of probing this newest releases.
This is true, because it's so many bugs and abnormal behavior of user PCs has this Puppy' release...
And it's I says as last reason. It is prefer if the Puppy' projects would be divided (on a fork, but as common subprojects) to successfully processed studies of many directions to development of the newest Puppy. (It would seem that it was done...)
The first program line and first way is development of direction to maximum usability the OS for most attractive destination users, for so-called "end users"; they prefer it for any OSs. And as second way is improvement to provide and evolution the maintainer's technology, including technology to provide for simply building any software packages.
The second way and task is direction by Barry and that is very successfully develops himself by Barry.
But the first direction way on the community Puppy is now essentially natural chaos... What is not good, IMHO...
I wish many for the people participating in the project, and Barry personally, and many every success! And especially -- lot of courage and patience to overcome the failures of this way.
P.S. Excuse me for my poor English.
- Sit Heel Speak
- Posts: 2595
- Joined: Fri 31 Mar 2006, 03:22
- Location: downwind
Suggestion: better labelling of the grub menu entries
It might be a frustration-saver (good) idea to explicitly label each of the two grub-install menu entries with which filesystems it pertains to, like this:
Grub Legacy bootloader config (not for FAT32, NTFS)
Grub4DOS bootloader config (*eh, OK on FAT32, does it work on all filesystems?*)
Also I am curious if anyone can enlighten me, when did Grub4DOS (when installed to the MBR, the menu's default) start placing menu.lst and grldr in the top directory of the chosen install partition? Didn't these used to go in /boot/grub?
Grub Legacy bootloader config (not for FAT32, NTFS)
Grub4DOS bootloader config (*eh, OK on FAT32, does it work on all filesystems?*)
Also I am curious if anyone can enlighten me, when did Grub4DOS (when installed to the MBR, the menu's default) start placing menu.lst and grldr in the top directory of the chosen install partition? Didn't these used to go in /boot/grub?
- Sit Heel Speak
- Posts: 2595
- Joined: Fri 31 Mar 2006, 03:22
- Location: downwind
Remaster script needs updating to say "112" not "110"
(***EDITED the following sentence is not true***)
Simple CD Remaster prompts do not reflect the change from version 110 to 112.
(*bad words*)!!!,
when I install Grub4DOS from the live CD of Quirky 112, I *expect* menu.lst to contain Quirky 112 as the top (default) entry, not the Quirky 110 I earlier placed on the drive...
Simple CD Remaster prompts do not reflect the change from version 110 to 112.
(*bad words*)!!!,
when I install Grub4DOS from the live CD of Quirky 112, I *expect* menu.lst to contain Quirky 112 as the top (default) entry, not the Quirky 110 I earlier placed on the drive...
Last edited by Sit Heel Speak on Thu 03 Jun 2010, 19:30, edited 2 times in total.
- BarryK
- Puppy Master
- Posts: 9392
- Joined: Mon 09 May 2005, 09:23
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
- Contact:
Use PPM to install the 'mesa' and 'mesa_DEV' packages.jpeps wrote:I took a shot at compiling xorg intel video drivers, but there's a missing header, gl.h.
Code: Select all
/usr/X11R7/include/GL/glxint.h:36:19: error: GL/gl.h: No such file or directory In file included from i810.h:60, from i810_accel.c:41: /usr/X11R7/include/GL/glxint.h:103: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'GLboolean'
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]
Some Dell laptops (including the d600) can get stuck at their lowestjpeps wrote:It works with VESA and only get's jerky with X24. (1024X768). X16 is "recommended" after probe, although the screen shows up with a dimly lit green hue.rjbrewer wrote:
Strange: your D600 has identical parts and specs as my 700m, and I
don't have any "jerky" streaming problems; with or without cpu
scaling.
I noticed 4.4. uses x.org ver 1.3.0, where quirky is using ver 1.7.1. I use X24 with all other distros incl 4.4.
cpu speed. That would certainly explain "jerky video".
There is a Dell fix for the problem; the "Microsoft Speedstep fix for
WinXp"; at Dell support homepage, drivers and downloads.
Look in puppys' system >hardinfo > processor, to see what speed you're
running at.
With Wary 020 I get the the most and best xorg and vesa
resolutions of any puppy I've ever tried.
It also lets me step down my cpu speed. With it now set at
1.4ghz max it stays below the temp. warning always. As good
as my 4.1.2 install in most cases.
edit;
Think you have ATI radeon 9000 graphics.
Inspiron 700m, Pent.M 1.6Ghz, 1Gb ram.
Msi Wind U100, N270 1.6>2.0Ghz, 1.5Gb ram.
Eeepc 8g 701, 900Mhz, 1Gb ram.
Full installs
Yes, it's using the radeon. I built xf86-video-radeonhd-1.3.0, but it didn't work. Probably easiest just to use VESA, which gets good resolution and flash video.rjbrewer wrote:
Some Dell laptops (including the d600) can get stuck at their lowest
cpu speed. That would certainly explain "jerky video".
There is a Dell fix for the problem; the "Microsoft Speedstep fix for
WinXp"; at Dell support homepage, drivers and downloads.
Look in puppys' system >hardinfo > processor, to see what speed you're
running at.
With Wary 020 I get the the most and best xorg and vesa
resolutions of any puppy I've ever tried.
It also lets me step down my cpu speed. With it now set at
1.4ghz max it stays below the temp. warning always. As good
as my 4.1.2 install in most cases.
edit;
Think you have ATI radeon 9000 graphics.
- Béèm
- Posts: 11763
- Joined: Wed 22 Nov 2006, 00:47
- Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win
I appear to have the same on my Thinkpad R40.rjbrewer wrote:Some Dell laptops (including the d600) can get stuck at their lowestjpeps wrote:It works with VESA and only get's jerky with X24. (1024X768). X16 is "recommended" after probe, although the screen shows up with a dimly lit green hue.rjbrewer wrote:
Strange: your D600 has identical parts and specs as my 700m, and I
don't have any "jerky" streaming problems; with or without cpu
scaling.
I noticed 4.4. uses x.org ver 1.3.0, where quirky is using ver 1.7.1. I use X24 with all other distros incl 4.4.
cpu speed. That would certainly explain "jerky video".
There is a Dell fix for the problem; the "Microsoft Speedstep fix for
WinXp"; at Dell support homepage, drivers and downloads.
Look in puppys' system >hardinfo > processor, to see what speed you're
running at.
With Wary 020 I get the the most and best xorg and vesa
resolutions of any puppy I've ever tried.
It also lets me step down my cpu speed. With it now set at
1.4ghz max it stays below the temp. warning always. As good
as my 4.1.2 install in most cases.
edit;
Think you have ATI radeon 9000 graphics.
It seems to be stuck at the min freq value I defined, altho the freq should fluctuate in function of the load. So at low cpu load the freq should be max, which I never see. So I have the impression that frequency scaling isn't working that well.
EDIT
As for running a youtube video, I have more jerky, the lower the cpu speed with the radeon driver in use. (ATI radeon mobility 7500)
When I use the vesa driver, jerky is almost gone.
Time savers:
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
[url=http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage]Consult Wikka[/url]
Use peppyy's [url=http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html]puppysearch[/url]
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
[url=http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage]Consult Wikka[/url]
Use peppyy's [url=http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html]puppysearch[/url]
Abnormalter, I should not comment because I don't have deep insight in the attitude of the devs.
But I've been active here now 24/7 since Christmas 2009 and I get the feeling that Puppy Linux is more like a hobby project by Barry and supported and individually developed also by others that love what Barry suggested.
All of them are in it for the fun it gives them.
What you take up do apply to major distros.
Am I not right in that Barry does indicate on his blog that this is experimental project that we use on our own risk and not something he promise to have the status of a warranted software?
Just felt for giving a more light <3 (the thing that pump blood to the body? )
I don't criticise you but maybe, just maybe you take Puppy too seriously?
Friendly smile from a total Nobody
But I've been active here now 24/7 since Christmas 2009 and I get the feeling that Puppy Linux is more like a hobby project by Barry and supported and individually developed also by others that love what Barry suggested.
All of them are in it for the fun it gives them.
What you take up do apply to major distros.
Am I not right in that Barry does indicate on his blog that this is experimental project that we use on our own risk and not something he promise to have the status of a warranted software?
Just felt for giving a more light <3 (the thing that pump blood to the body? )
I don't criticise you but maybe, just maybe you take Puppy too seriously?
Friendly smile from a total Nobody
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
not an ideal solution though
My old Inspiron 4000, 800mhz cpu, Ati rage graphics, plays jerkyBéèm wrote: It seems to be stuck at the min freq value I defined, altho the freq should fluctuate in function of the load. So at low cpu load the freq should be max, which I never see. So I have the impression that frequency scaling isn't working that well.
EDIT
As for running a youtube video, I have more jerky, the lower the cpu speed with the radeon driver in use. (ATI radeon mobility 7500)
When I use the vesa driver, jerky is almost gone.
youtube . Xorg or Xvesa makes no difference.
My 700m, Intel 855gm graphics, plays smooth even with the cpu
set at 800mhz (the speed it uses on battery power)
Inspiron 700m, Pent.M 1.6Ghz, 1Gb ram.
Msi Wind U100, N270 1.6>2.0Ghz, 1.5Gb ram.
Eeepc 8g 701, 900Mhz, 1Gb ram.
Full installs
- Béèm
- Posts: 11763
- Joined: Wed 22 Nov 2006, 00:47
- Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win
Beware.rjbrewer wrote:Xorg or Xvesa makes no difference.
Xvesa is not the same as vesa.
vesa is an xorg driver.
Time savers:
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
[url=http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage]Consult Wikka[/url]
Use peppyy's [url=http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html]puppysearch[/url]
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
[url=http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage]Consult Wikka[/url]
Use peppyy's [url=http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html]puppysearch[/url]
Some stuff I came across when setting up a 1.2rc:
- during the boot from the CD I saw something with "oldmouse" and "file not found" coming up
- when I use the universal installer and what to install to an internal harddisk I get my single disk (sda) to choose. After I created the partition I see the same selection dialog again, but it has sda list twice (already happened with 1.1)
- also in the universal installer after I selected to install it to sda it says, that the partition has an ext4 filesystem, although it was formated with ext2
- "lock" (as seen on the Desktop) does nothing for me in VirtualBox 3.2.2 and on my laptop (same for 1.1)
- during the boot from the CD I saw something with "oldmouse" and "file not found" coming up
- when I use the universal installer and what to install to an internal harddisk I get my single disk (sda) to choose. After I created the partition I see the same selection dialog again, but it has sda list twice (already happened with 1.1)
- also in the universal installer after I selected to install it to sda it says, that the partition has an ext4 filesystem, although it was formated with ext2
- "lock" (as seen on the Desktop) does nothing for me in VirtualBox 3.2.2 and on my laptop (same for 1.1)
This is a minor fix to xwin that will allow Xvesa to run at 1366x768. This is needed for the Eee 1101HA that has the Intel GMA500. The GMA500 has no decent Xorg driver so Xvesa support is definitely required.
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