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apt-get working on Puppy 5 lupu pretty simple
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Iguleder


Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1924
Location: Israel, somewhere in the beautiful desert

PostPosted: Tue 24 Aug 2010, 05:58    Post subject:  

Ummm ... I lost it Embarassed

I remember I wrote it in about 10 minutes ... I'll write a new one and probably discuss this in IRC Smile

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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Tue 24 Aug 2010, 08:59    Post subject: Re: Thanks and two questions for sickgut  

stevesr0 wrote:
Hi,

I want to use apt-get wiith lupu and saw this thread. Looks great. Thanks in advance.

I have two questions:

(1) I wanted to look at the status and available files out of curiosity and was surprised that it came up as a .BIN file not a .TXT.

I looked at these two files on another computer (running debian) and both are text files.

Are the files (status and available) actually text files?

(2) I am helping someone trying out Lupu, running a live-CD. Is there a reason apt-get can't be installed by your method?

Thanks again.

Steve


_________________________________
Hi Steve

In answer to your first question, yes they are text files but do not have a .txt extention on the end of their filenames. If you open them up in a wordprocessor or something like gedit or leafpad or something you will be able to edit and read/ save to these files. The apt program doesnt recognise these files when they have the .txt extention on them. Most config files in linux are plain text but do not have .txt extentions, either no extention or a different extention, for example xorg.conf or menu.lst these are 2 common linux config files that are in text format but do not have the .txt extention on their filename. Most programs like browsers for example judge the type of file is by the extention (usually a period followed by three letters). I think its quite common for alot of programs to presume a file is a BIN file when there is no 3 letter file extention. Basicly your browser is just confused.

In answer to your seccond question, if you actually have a save file setup that the live cd finds so that you can save settings and programs etc in it then there is no reason apt wont work. But be warned, it isnt a fool proof system and apt will install stuff fresh off the ubuntu repos and ubuntu stuff isnt as fat free as Puppy Lupu, also apt may overwrite some existing puppy files with newer but more bloated ubuntu versions. this isnt as bad as is sounds but if there isnt a pet already available for the software you wanna retrieve from apt-get then you will end up with bloated versions anyway, so you may aswell apt-get it.

I have not tested apt with getting newer versions of critical puppy files and i have had one experience when i apt-got something and it overwrote my shutdown.rc script and made it revert to ubuntu commands to shutdown and the shutdown menu in puppy didnt work. I had to crash out to console and type shutdown now -h or something similar to poweroff the computer and then it wouldnt boot puppy propperly.

Having said the above paragraph that is full of fear, shock tactics and regret, although true is a worst case scenario. I was testing apt's limits and purposely upgraded some key component in puppy and was deliberatley trying to break my system just to see if it could be done.

My advice to people using apt-get (my standard version not paulhomebus's improved updates, i do not know yet about what has been fixed with it) is to apt-get programs that dont depend heavily on core stuff. A good example is Xaos, or nano, or maybe transmission and certainly some games, that will work fine. Dont apt-get anything to do with the kernel or drivers or xorg or even things like vlc or mplayer have alot of dependencies and can potentially overwite stuff you need, or install newer versions that do not follow the rules that puppy follows, install the dependency just fine but not with the propper script. Some programs have 40 or so dependencies and some dont. If you try to apt-get something with a large amount of dep's and there is files names with anything that looks important, please err on the side of caution and do not install it.

Also there are circular dependency issues with something called base-files. Some popular programs like vlc and mplayer depend on this being there and its meant to be already installed on an Ubuntu system. Its not supposed to be installed by apt, altho apt will try to.do it but will fail. Aparently this is a problem with ubuntu itself as other ubuntu mini distros cannot handle this either.

Peace out ..V,
sickgut
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Hesse James


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Thu 26 Aug 2010, 14:59    Post subject:  

Good morning paulhomebus
I tried to download your modified apt.conf file but the download failed because of a missing page on that server. Could you please make it available elsewhere ? I would like to try your modifications whether they allow an installation or not (purely academic interest).
Recently I have put together an apt-get.sfs according to sickguts file recommendations adding a borrowed etc/apt directory content from Ubuntu. On Lupu5.1 this apt-get works ok for downloading, not for installation.
I used it successfully to download some other deb-libs including their dependencies for my QBasic64 for linux (Lupu). The Puppy installer failed resolving all the dependencies.
Have a nice day.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sat 28 Aug 2010, 11:42    Post subject:  

hi hesse james

ill see if i can get the extra stuff from paulhomebus and upload it to my current apt-get download thing at http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux/apt-get/
so that its all in the one place

_____________
Update:

The extra stuff paulhomebus put together for apt-get is now available at the same location as my apt-get solution.

http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux/apt-get
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Last edited by sickgut on Mon 30 Aug 2010, 15:54; edited 1 time in total
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Eyes-Only


Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 1046
Location: La Confederation Abenaquaise

PostPosted: Sat 28 Aug 2010, 13:14    Post subject:    

Hi Sickgut!

Just wanted to say that I've been using your apt-get/aptitude, and have combined it with Synaptic as well ( in my LucidPup-5.1 I should add here on a 65gig partition full install ) and, while as you say that it's not for the "beginner", I've been having fabulous success with all three with both installs and downloads, using the PPM to make up for any encountered "deficiencies" encountered.

I simply wanted to drop by and thank you from the bottom of my heart for all of the hard work which you've put into this project of yours - it really does show because of its quality! I've likewise brought your project to the attention of those working to officially attempt to port apt-get/Synaptic over for the next version of LucidPup ( or possibly the version thereafter ). Hopefully what with the fine work you've accomplished here that will place them all that much ahead in reaching that dream of achieving the "Ultimate Puppy": One binary-compatible with a LTS Ubuntu with complete access to their repos via apt-get/Synaptic!

Again Sickgut: Thank you for all your hard work in this project of yours. Please don't stop! People like you are very much needed around here, believe me! Very Happy

Cheers/Amicalement!

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge d'Acadie"

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stevesr0

Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Sun 29 Aug 2010, 19:56    Post subject: re: apt-get questions  

Thanks for responses.

I have not attempted to install apt-get.

Will report back after I get the chance.

Steve
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sun 21 Nov 2010, 18:03    Post subject: new direction
Subject description: apt-get isnt perfect and im not going to stop untill there is a perfect solution
 

Problem is that i only made the apt-get compatible with Lupu 5 not 5.11
alot of the packages are the same so it dont matter but you are bound to run into some that are different and apt-get worki ng under puppy isnt 100% at best, its just an aid.
The status file i created only contains the package information for Lupu 5.
Its only the status file that is the problem here, to create it i found a list of he packages in lupu on barry's blog and created the status file from it, if someone is willing to spend the time to update this file to reflect the package changes in lupu 5.11 then this apt-get thing might work a bit better for n ewer puppies than lupu 5
the real problem isnt package names but package versions. I presume apt-get wants to up date that package version to but it either already is the newer version, where as apt-get with the older status file makes puppy think that the version of the file is much older than it is and its confuses the apt-get thing

also make sure you have the devx for your lupu 5.11 installed not the devx mentioned in my apt-get install.txt file. this could also be a reason that it cant configure some stuff propperly .you need the propper devx for your OS. i have devx for lupu 5.11 here:

http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux/sfs/lupu_devx_511.sfs

But like i said you still may run into status file incompatibility in lupu 5.11, there shouldnt be THAT much difference but i havent tested it with 5.11 and i dont actually know much about 5.11 or actually have even used 5.11 so i dont really know. I became dissollusioned with puppy since it went down the ubuntu path and the apt-get thing in my mind at the time was the solution but it didnt work out that way.

I have abandoned this project as it isnt a 100% effective solution even when its configured propperly with a propper status file updated to what it needs to be, simply because altho lupu is bases on ubuntu packages it still isnt 100% ubuntu compatible. Like ive mentioned before smaller programs that dont depend much on core files work kinda flawlessly but things like vlc and other stuff that the ubuntu repos have newer versions than lupu have, once apt-gotted will try to overwrite core puppy stuff with newer versions. This may sound ok, but in practice you loose the custom puppy made scripts, configs etc and it converts things to how ubuntu wants to do things, worst case scenareo is a unbootable system.

Im working on a project that will be 100% debian repo compatible with apt-get install and remove that works flawlessly. This is my kitten linux (i think that name is taken by another linux distro) or kitty linux or it might even end up being called felinux. Im using a cat themed name because it will be very close to puppy but of cause different. It will be a different distro to puppy but hopefully not in competition with it. Instead of starting with a puppy base and making a nice apt-get capable puppy that is compatible with debian repos (they are more reliable than ubuntu ones) it is a base debian system with all the same apps as puppy linux. This is the only truely 100% way to have an apt-get puppy linux like system.

Debian bent in a way that works like puppy, not puppy with debian/ ubuntu apt-get retro fitted on top. I have an alpha quality version of this running and as a proof of concept it works very well, uses less ram, boots quicker, has excellent driver support and to upgrade to the next version all you have to do it type apt-get upgrade. I started the whole apt-get thing because i find the whole relying on custom pet packages for puppy linuc to be not newbie friendly and it in my opinion the single biggest turn off for ppl trying to migrate from windows to puppy linux. This will take the pressure off of devs that keep all the pets uptodate. The whole idea of the new package manager in Lupu that gets stuff from ubuntu repos was meant to make things easier for the devs in this regard but there is one fatal flaw: it doesnt work.

Sry for the rant and shameless advertising of my kitty linux but i know this thread gets a lot of people viewing it and im asked constantly on irc how to get apt-get working so i know people actually still use this with puppy and i want everyone to know what direction this whole apt-get thing is going and to let ppl know im working on a solution that will be 100% effective and not hit and miss like it is now.

i need to get live cd and usb installs working, these are the only things that i need to f ix + some artwork etc for me to release a beta version. Then after beta is released and ppl test it and report bugs and i fix thise bugs then a propper release quality kitty linux will hit version 1and have its own site, forums and support, much in the same way jemimah has done with puppeee and fluppy (i would like to mention now that fluppy is probably the single biggest contribution and the most underestimated Puppy OS since Lupu arrived, being suitable for eeepc's, laptops and other netbooks and also desktops makes it a complete solution and its really awesome).

OK over and out
Sickgut.
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cprivers

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sat 04 Dec 2010, 15:17    Post subject:  

Sickgut,

What's the status on the Kitty? I'm ready to test!

My biggest upset with Puppy is the package manager, and I am hoping that what you are working on is a step in the right direction.

Thanks,

Chuck

(Running 4.31 with apt-get & Synaptic. Not sure if it works right!)

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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 15 Dec 2010, 23:53    Post subject: status of kitty linux
Subject description: in response to cpriver's question
 

hi cpriver

kitty linx has kinda stalled due to a problem in creating a liveCD and subsiquent installer for it at present.

there are many ways to do this but i always get failiers and when i look up the error codes etc the information i get is that its an outstanding unfixed bug that is stopping me from making a livecd successfull.

at the moment kittey linux is just a standard debian net install 160mb or so .iso with added packages to make it look andfeel like puppy: xorg, jwm, rox and many of the same apps as puppy. It works as a proof of concept: it uses less ram than normal puppies, has same app selection and the added bonus of apt-get and ability to upgrade the OS to the next version using apt-get upgrade and has really really good old hardware and new hardware support as debian dont drop old hardware support as readily as say ubuntu etc.

it runs really well on 64mb ram too, i know puppy works best on 128b and up but this seems to need no more than 64mb to run as well as puppy with 128mb, the key to efficent ram usage isnt the application selection or distro size on the HDD its how many things are loaded into ram at one time.

hopefully after ive done all i can to make this debain remaster that is kitty linux to work like puppy then maybe the dev community might pick it up and puppize it further and maybe then it could be considered an actual puppy but with an awesome easy to use apt-get system that solves the problem with puppy not having an as easy use package manager as the larger distros.

there will always be a trade off as a side effect of the easy to use package manager that supplies all the programs you will ever need from a major distros repo, so the devs can spend time on the actuall OS not creating endless packages for a puppy repo and then doing it all again as the next puppy version is released, and that side effect is disk usage.

even if there are scripts in place to strip all the packages of junk docs and unneeded stuff, the installed program size will always be larger than the packages put together by the current puppy devs. I think its a fair trade. The extra disk space used isnt enormous and larger disk usage doesnt mean more ram or other resource usage.

sry ive gone on a rant again, but i also want to make it clear that i am in no way trying to make a distro in competition to puppy, just trying to implement an idea that may actually enhance puppies user friendly side and maybe quell the newbie frustration of limited puppy app selection.

as soon as i can sort this livecd problem out kitty will be born immediately.
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abushcrafter


Joined: 30 Oct 2009
Posts: 1447
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed 02 Feb 2011, 20:13    Post subject: Re: new direction
Subject description: apt-get isnt perfect and im not going to stop untill there is a perfect solution
 

sickgut wrote:
Sry for the rant and shameless advertising of my kitty linux
Narr. That's not advertising. Its what your doing. Your conclusion. Its relevant.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
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Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Tue 05 Jul 2011, 10:06    Post subject: hi ppl ive finnished kitty linux  

hi dogfarmers

re: this thread, i said i was making an OS similar to puppy but with apt-get and it will be 100% compati ble with the debian repos, well ive done it
called pussy

http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux

have a looksee
im waiting to see if any puppy devs would "pup it up"
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big_bass

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Tue 05 Jul 2011, 11:19    Post subject:  

sickgut

interesting that you are using official tools apt-get
thats good news and a positive forward step

to avoid misunderstandings
howerver ,the distro name you chose is a poor choice due to many
unwanted search results that will come up

maybe your English translates differently the way you intended it to be " a small cat"
the word "kitten" is used in the U.S .or "kitty"

*think about it carefully (American English differs greatly with this word)

I am a native English speaker living in another country Mexico
some times a simple translation from English to Spanish
is offensive when that wasnt the objective


Joe

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Paul Gydos

Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jul 2011, 21:47    Post subject: anyplace for apt-get stuff, gone from thepussycatforest.info
Subject description: Does anybody else have the apt-get stuff now that its no longer posted at thepussycatforest.info
 

It seems that since sick gut got his pussy os going over there at thepussycatforest.info that the apt-get stuff is gone. Does anybody else have a copy of it? Is it posted elsewhere. Anybody Anybody.

Need the apt-get stuff

Or has anybody have a set of directions for getting the missing dependencies to work through puppy packagae manager

or any other method that works for apt-get

Thank You

Paul Gydos
paul@gydos.com
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robotgirl

Joined: 08 Sep 2011
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon 12 Sep 2011, 15:03    Post subject:  

I too would like this information, I'm not really very interested in trying pussy and would like to use apt-get on here and any other threads on this subject aren't very helpful, in fact most say you can't use apt at all..
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miriam


Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 281
Location: Queensland, Australia

PostPosted: Tue 20 Sep 2011, 20:27    Post subject:  

Darn. I'm interested too. I even tried that nice fallback of looking the directory up on the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine (http://www.archive.org/web/web.php) but it wasn't caught by their bots.

Sickgut, if you watch this thread at all, would you be able to either put that dir and its contents online again? Or post it to me and I'll put it on my site (credited appropriately of course).

Did anybody else grab it, in case sickgut has left permanently?

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